Comparison of Power Commander 5 to Monster ECU stage 1 or stage 2 flash

[UtahPete]

Would the air box mods required by Monster have anything to do with stage 2 breathing more air because the throttle plates open all the way?

That would be a good question for Lew to ask them. Their website is really short on info.

[Lew L]

Would the air box mods required by Monster have anything to do with stage 2 breathing more air because the throttle plates open all the way?

This was one of the reasons I modified the intake of my 2014. I haven't found the large intake opening in the radiator nacelle after closely inspecting a few other 1330 's (Rt's) mentioned by another member here.

Lew L

[2dogs]

This was one of the reasons I modified the intake of my 2014. I haven't found the large intake opening in the radiator nacelle after closely inspecting a few other 1330 's (Rt's) mentioned by another member here.

Lew L

The air intake mod is only required for stage 2. Some who've done stage 2 say that they can hear the difference in the intake sound when they roll on the throttle. I noticed more so the feeling of the frontend getting lighter as the RPM's increase. One of my reasons for stage 2 is passing a truck going uphill when I'm pulling a trailer and I don't want to take a long time doing it and hold up traffic. That's where stage 2 really shines. Have you ever been on a long uphill 3 lane grade where some flatlander takes the entire stretch of the 3 lanes to pass the slow moving truck and ends up holding everyone else back? Yea, even the truck driver doesn't like that. No one can pass me except that guy in the red Hellcat. LOL If you ever get stage 2, please use it responsibly.

[Lew L]

.

I've gotten response from Monster FI. What Pete and Pete said are correct BUT there is more. From what I got out out of Monsters response is:

1. 100% throttle opening is NOT always there ( when you want it) It may be 100% in second gear and momentarily at best.
2. It is never there in reverse or neutral ( a good thing)
3. ECU tuning by Monster FI does give 100% A LOT of the time

I may have to get home to get the full text of Monsters response posted. But even more contemplation of it will occur now.
Lew L

[UtahPete]

The air intake mod is only required for stage 2. Some who've done stage 2 say that they can hear the difference in the intake sound when they roll on the throttle. I noticed more so the feeling of the frontend getting lighter as the RPM's increase. One of my reasons for stage 2 is passing a truck going uphill when I'm pulling a trailer and I don't want to take a long time doing it and hold up traffic. That's where stage 2 really shines. Have you ever been on a long uphill 3 lane grade where some flatlander takes the entire stretch of the 3 lanes to pass the slow moving truck and ends up holding everyone else back? Yea, even the truck driver doesn't like that. No one can pass me except that guy in the red Hellcat. LOL If you ever get stage 2, please use it responsibly.

Does the Monster Flash (either Stage 1 or 2) affect normal cruising fuel mileage? I seem to recall Lew saying his mileage is actually better with Stage 1 than with stock ECU. It would be nice to think all that extra power is available when it's needed, but under normal operating conditions it acts like an unaltered ECU.

ALSO, does flashing the ECU affect the nanny operation at all? I wouldn't want to lose any of the stability or traction features.

[Peter Aawen]

Does the Monster Flash (either Stage 1 or 2) affect normal cruising fuel mileage? I seem to recall Lew saying his mileage is actually better with Stage 1 than with stock ECU. It would be nice to think all that extra power is available when it's needed, but under normal operating conditions it acts like an unaltered ECU.

ALSO, does flashing the ECU affect the nanny operation at all? I wouldn't want to lose any of the stability or traction features.

My ECU Update is definitely not a Stage 1, but it too improved the fuel economy for 'normal cruising', quite a bit in fact!

And NO, flashing the ECU to improve the engine's performance doesn't impact the Nanny operation or intervention in any way, altho because you've got more power/torque on hand & quite possibly a quicker response from the throttle, you might feel as tho she's intervening a bit earlier - but that's just cos you've reached the limits a little (oe a lottle!) quicker!! . The parameters for stability & traction control aren't usually touched in an ECU Upgrade tho - unless of course, you ask your tuner to ease them off a bit & your tuner is capable of doing that & willing to do that!

Go on, DO IT!! You know you want to!! There's very little in the way of drawbacks to a good ECU Upgrade, and there's a whole lot to be gained!! And any drawbacks are largely self imposed - ie, if you can't ever resist the temptation to wring it out &/or light up the rear tire at every opportunity, you will probably wear out even the best &/or longest lasting tire quicker than you would with a stock tune... . But it usually doesn't take long to get over that exuberance of having the greater power/torque on tap; altho even the greatest of Nanny's can't protect us from our own excesses Besides, you really wouldn't want her to be that restrictive anyway.... would you??!

Enjoy!

[UtahPete]

I went riding in the mountains today with my CVMA buddies. 25 bikes. They're all riding Harleys or Indians and they're younger. 5 of us at the back of the pack got left behind at a traffic light to an onramp. When the light turned green the two bikes in front of me poured on the throttle to catch up to the rest of the pack. Absolutely deafening noise from their pipes. I kept up with them okay, but was never able to pass them. I gotta do something about that!

Stage 1, stage 2 or dynojet? Still trying to decide.

I'm thinking I should probably put a new belt on first. Mine got a hole in it from a rock I picked up (pre belt guard) awhile back....

The cash we got from selling Jane's Cognac RT is indefinitely burning a hole in my pocket...

[2dogs]

Does the Monster Flash (either Stage 1 or 2) affect normal cruising fuel mileage? I seem to recall Lew saying his mileage is actually better with Stage 1 than with stock ECU. It would be nice to think all that extra power is available when it's needed, but under normal operating conditions it acts like an unaltered ECU.

ALSO, does flashing the ECU affect the nanny operation at all? I wouldn't want to lose any of the stability or traction features.

Well Pete, after doing all the research I could do on the subject I chose to go directly to stage 2 with Monster. Actually, Wick-It did it. The only sticky portion of the process was getting the ECU connections to release. And of course the downtime. Watch Monster's YouTube on removal and follow all the directions including sending the ECU to them. Seems the ECU learns your style of driving. My first tank full got me 31 MPG. UGH! But I kept with it and now I'm getting 40+ 2up. Not sure yet but I may get better MPG at 65+ rather than 60 MPH. The feel of the machine and the sound it's putting out makes me think it likes 65 rather than 60. Still working on that one. Instant start, no booting up. A few quirky things change with normal operating procedures but nothing mind bending. I normally run ECO mode 95% of the time and use cruise control as often as I can, set at 60 uphill and downhill. The nanny is unaffected after the upgrade. Drive normally just like you used to do and you'd never notice the upgrade until you roll up the throttle. In the long run you may get a bit more MPG. Currently, I'm doing a long term MPG test. Probably do it all summer long or more. By the way, the throttle needs a much lighter touch. Without you knowing it if you grab the same amount of throttle as before you can easily hit something in tight quarters. You'll spin the tire in the gravel and on the pavement you'll make the spider lurch forward unintentionally. So be aware.

[Peter Aawen]

I went riding in the mountains today with my CVMA buddies. 25 bikes. They're all riding Harleys or Indians and they're younger. 5 of us at the back of the pack got left behind at a traffic light to an onramp. When the light turned green the two bikes in front of me poured on the throttle to catch up to the rest of the pack. Absolutely deafening noise from their pipes. I kept up with them okay, but was never able to pass them. I gotta do something about that!

Stage 1, stage 2 or dynojet? Still trying to decide.

I'm thinking I should probably put a new belt on first. Mine got a hole in it from a rock I picked up (pre belt guard) awhile back....

The cash we got from selling Jane's Cognac RT is indefinitely burning a hole in my pocket...

Why?? Has your belt shown any other signs of wear?? Has the hole been spreading? Are the edges of the hole or the edges of belt itself tearing or fraying more? What a bout the teeth/cogs on the belt?? Any signs of stress cracking or teeth breaking out of or off theg belt backing.... These belts are really a WHOLE LOT stronger & more capable of handling this sorta stuff than most of you seem to think....

So if there's NOT any sign of increased wear/damage along the lines mentioned above, then it's quite likely that if it didn't break immediately or start fraying straight away after the hole was punched in it, then the belt that was designed to be self healing up to a certain degree has almost certainly done tthat and is almost certainly fine as it is to do anything your Spyder's capable of dishing out pre or post ECU Upgrade!! So just get on with ryding it & if you feel you must, check the belt carefully every service; maybe eyeball it whenever you check the tires; or inspect it after each quick 1000 miles on loose gravel you do, just like I do miine . Why waste money on buying trouble before there's even a hint that there'll be any?!? . If you really feel concerned about it despite there being no indication that you should be, you could always buy a new belt & carry it with you for Justin.... and in the meantime....

can you guess what I'm gonna type next??



Go onnn, surely you can guess what I'm gonna type next??








Yup - Ryde More, Worry Less!



And if you feel the need for any ECU Upgrade or Dynojet or whatever performance enhancement, even if you just want one; why waste your time on getting anything LESS than what you think you might want/need now or at some stage down track?!? Especially since an ECU Upgrade can give you everything those Pedal Commanders etc &/or a lesser 'Flash' can, plus a whole lot more!?! . And yeah, if you're SURE you'll be happy with just an enhanced throttle response & no power gains; a Dynojet; or even a Stage 1 forever, then DO IT and quit dithering/selling yourself short! . But if you have the slightest concern or feeling that you might eventually want to go to a Stage 2 ever, even if at some stage waaayyy down track, the same thing applies - don't waste your time & money fiddling around the edges for whatever reason,

just DO IT!

And then get out there & ENJOY IT too!!

[trikermutha]

What are the gains with the Flash?
I would start with the pedal commander first then see if you really need a flash.

The pedal commander will get you off the line faster and while cruising.

[troop]

Just remember, with the Stage 2 flash, 91+ octane is a requirement. If you plan on traveling, you might want to carry some octane booster. While 91+ is mostly readily available, it isn't always available. On my Dyno Jet PV3 custom tune, I also got improved cruising mpg. That said, when I travel travel this year, I will revert back to my stock tune to be able to use 87 octane with these stupid fuel prices.

[UtahPete]

Peter Aawen, I'm thoroughly enjoying your comments and trashing of my excuses. Just what I need to stop dithering...almost.

What are the air box mods required of the Stage 2?

I like the idea of being able to select 'modes' as with the Dynojet, and being able to use lower octane fuels when the 91 isn't available (which is often the case in the rural areas of the West). Control is good, to my way of thinking.

So, any thoughts on Stage 2 vs Dynojet?

[Lew L]

.

Stage 2 does 2 holes in the "LID"of the air box.I would think that this brings in hotter air. From that I know of ait boxes-- they are "carefully tuned " to the motorcycle engine. I've made a couple of mistakes modifying air boxes by adding holes. Had to close and repair the holes...but modifications to the intake portion of the box ALWAYS helped. Thus, removing the restrictions and enlarging and reshaping the front of the 2014 intake snout with a stage 1 works for me.

[2dogs]

What are the gains with the Flash? ....

Ah, would 10/20+ HP do? Take your pick.
https://wick-itperformance.com/shop-...-can-am-spyder

[2dogs]

Peter Aawen, I'm thoroughly enjoying your comments and trashing of my excuses. Just what I need to stop dithering...almost.

What are the air box mods required of the Stage 2? ...

Two (approx 1") holes drilled in your air box air filter lid. Just send it in with the ECU. Oxygen is the powerhouse. So, more Oxy in, more burnt Oxy out = more HP. Remember the comments about the throttle plates opening 100%? Currently, you're carb compliant. If you go stage 2 you will no longer pass smog. That's the only downside. However Wick-it. can put you back to OEM specs if needed. You'll have to contact them for more info regarding reset to OEM. (One week turnaround.) As for 91 grade fuel. I carry two small bottles of Boostane and the mix ratio is approx 1/2oz to 1, very very small.

[UtahPete]

Two (approx 1") holes drilled in your air box air filter lid. Just send it in with the ECU. Oxygen is the powerhouse. So, more Oxy in, more burnt Oxy out = more HP. Remember the comments about the throttle plates opening 100%? Currently, you're carb compliant. If you go stage 2 you will no longer pass smog. That's the only downside. However Wick-it. can put you back to OEM specs if needed. You'll have to contact them for more info regarding reset to OEM. (One week turnaround.) As for 91 grade fuel. I carry two small bottles of Boostane and the mix ratio is approx 1/2oz to 1, very very small.

That may be the way I have to go, since the Commander V seems to be out of stock.

Great info. Thanks.

[Peter Aawen]

Peter Aawen, I'm thoroughly enjoying your comments and trashing of my excuses. Just what I need to stop dithering...almost.

What are the air box mods required of the Stage 2?

I like the idea of being able to select 'modes' as with the Dynojet, and being able to use lower octane fuels when the 91 isn't available00 (which is often the case in the rural areas of the West). Control is good, to my way of thinking.

So, any thoughts on Stage 2 vs Dynojet?

My ECU Upgrade from Rotax Racing did entail removing the restrictive air box & swapping in a better air filter too, plus a cat delete, and improving the secondary muffler, but then it isn't necessarily as limited as Monster's Stages 1 or 2, and yet I can still use lower octane fuel if that's all that's available - and there's vast areas of this Country where I frequently go traveling that are so afflicted!

The engine still runs fine on the lower octane juice, but I was briefed about it and so am very aware that it truly IS a high compression, high performance motor that behaves at its best when fed on higher octane gas.... so if I have no choice but to use it I simply don't push it as hard when running on the lesser stuff here, 91 RON, as I can & do on our 95 RON (which is my usual choice over the lower 91 or higher 98 RON - the high stuff I really only ever run on the track, it's that much more expensive & just not such a big enough improvement as to warrant running it anywhere else! ) So yeah, outright performance does take a little hit & I don't get quite the best fuel economy either, cos it too takes a hit as the octane drops, but those hits really only bring it back closer towards into line with the stock motor's performance & fuel economy anyway, so I haven't really 'lost' too much, especially considering that those wide open spaces aren't really all that conducive to exploring the limits of engine performance, Spyder handling, & Ryder skill anyway!

As for the control you think a DynoJet will bring you, I've got all that & then some courtesy of my brain and my right hand & wrist, despite the numerous surgeries on both... . I can be happily tooling along achieving the best that Economy can offer, then at the merest whim I can switch to full on Sport Plus mode or anywhere in between, all far faster than anyone can fumble around changing their settings on a control or via an app! And there's never any need to turn it off or disconnect & remove it for servicing or anything either! It's virtually indetectable, even to people searching for it; it's never going to be accidentally lost or over-written; and even the most discerning of Spyder Techs have been unable to find &/or say anything but that my Spyder is far & away the best performing Spyder they've ever seen/worked on, and that's even with the raised Red Line/Rev Limit! All within the 'known safe parameters' of this engine as run in other platforms too!

Why anyone would bother with anything less than this, like with a Power Commander of a DynoJet is really beyond me - my ECU Upgrade has made my Spyder the bike it SHOULD have been from the outset, and it's an absolute joy to ryde at any time, whatever the conditions! It does what I want when I want it to, and it's got the legs for touring Oz without breaking the bank, even if I do decide to enjoy punting it thru the twisties every now & then, scaring all the mortals on their puny machines when I do!

Go on, Get the Damn ECU Upgrade! . You know you're going to eventually, or you'll be asking yourself why you bloody well didn't until you eventually shuffle off this mortal coil, a disappointed & bitter shadow of the man you could have been but for the will to commit to something you clearly want!! !

[UtahPete]

Okay, you've convinced me (along with Lew and 2dogs). I'll do it.

[Dennis in Lodi]

Peter Aawen, I'm thoroughly enjoying your comments and trashing of my excuses. Just what I need to stop dithering...almost.

What are the air box mods required of the Stage 2?

I like the idea of being able to select 'modes' as with the Dynojet, and being able to use lower octane fuels when the 91 isn't available (which is often the case in the rural areas of the West). Control is good, to my way of thinking.

So, any thoughts on Stage 2 vs Dynojet?

Thread killer when I comment, but here it goes. I was a primary tester for both the stage 1&2 Monster flashes. Stage 2 has more of everything good over stage 1. The Dyno shows about a 22% increase across the board from idle to redline over stock. So if the nanny did kick in it was hard to notice as you have 22% more power going on. There is a hand held programmer from Monster Fuel that mates to just one spyder. You can scroll between stock, stage 1 and stage 2.

There is much more to the monster flash than just power and torque adjustment. No need for a pedal commander as the flash lets you choose how much quick throttle kick you want. Trust me, this feature alone is worth the ticket. And the annoying screen delay that requires you to push the ECO button before start up is gone. Turn the key and press start just like it should be. And, much more wheel spin is allowed by the nanny with the stage 2 flash.
I could smoke the rear tire at will in 1st and often 2nd gear.

[2dogs]

Two things Dennis if I may? 1. Why, if it's not working as intended, does Monster want to open up the airbox? 2. Why does Monster recommend NOT using any fuel less than 91? They say to not exceed 30MPH if you are unable to get 91 or not able to add an octane boost to the fuel.

[trikermutha]

Ah, would 10/20+ HP do? Take your pick.
https://wick-itperformance.com/shop-...-can-am-spyder

Still may not be able to keep up with the Twins.

[2dogs]

Still may not be able to keep up with the Twins.

Only because of operator skill. Power to weight ratio, gearing and shift points all come into play. Don't know really. Never went up against a twin. You could be right.

[2dogs]

I'll have to ask Monster, but I was thinking of opening up the air box a little more if it would help. As far as 91 vs 87 goes, it's the pinging that you don't hear which causes the damage. It occurs over time.

[troop]

Hi Dennis,
Curious as to where you were able to get your Spyder dyno'd ?

[Dennis in Lodi]

Hi Dennis,
Curious as to where you were able to get your Spyder dyno'd ?

The Dyno was done in Canada with a Daytona F3 as it's the only Spyder that allows wheel spin. No way to to Dyno any other spyder?