China & COVID-19 virus

[redrazor]

There another place to see this? Google mail throws up a 404 error. Are you linking to your mailbox, or to an attachment in an email. That might be the problem.

Sorry for the error: Hope this one will open this shocking story: if not just copy and past this one to your browser.

[UtahPete]

[QUOTE=redrazor;1511742]Sorry for the error: Hope this one will open this shocking story: if not just copy and past this one to your browser.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

The Supreme Court of the United States.

Justice Harlan stated the question before the Court: “Is this statute . . . inconsistent with the liberty which the Constitution of the United States secures to every person against deprivation by the State?”2(p25) Harlan confirmed that the Constitution protects individual liberty and that liberty is not “an absolute right in each person to be, in all times and in all circumstances, wholly free from restraint”:

There is, of course, a sphere within which the individual may assert the supremacy of his own will and rightfully dispute the authority of any human government, especially of any free government existing under a written constitution. But it is equally true that in every well-ordered society charged with the duty of conserving the safety of its members the rights of the individual in respect of his liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be subjected to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the safety of the general public may demand.2(p29)

You'll find it in this long article about protecting the health of the public vs individual freedoms. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1449224/

Here's another one written just a few days ago addressing this specific issue.



Oh, and reread my comment in the letter and your statement above. Surely you are not arguing that your right to peaceably assemble, even if that assembly brings close together carriers of the coronavirus who may infect each other, trumps the right of a person to not be harmed by your action. Or are you?

[UtahPete]

If you're being sardonic.

[bmccaffrey]

Why is it the same people always seem to argue??

[UtahPete]

Why is it the same people always seem to argue??

No they don't...

[CopperSpyder]

Ok lets get back on track. Lets not do Politics see forum rule #2. Lets not argue to argue. I don't mind debate as long as it stays respectful of each other.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Here's something there should be no argument about, let's (u.s. and rest of world) buy less products from china and more domestic stuff.

[UtahPete]

Here's something there should be no argument about, let's (u.s. and rest of world) buy less products from china and more domestic stuff.

I would if I could. I think we are far too reliant on Chinese goods. But our farmers are very reliant on sales of their products to China, too. That door swings both ways.

I don't see China as evil; it's just that their long term goals seem to be at odds with our own lately. This is not going to be resolved by consumers, either theirs or ours, or by bullying, but rather by deep state diplomacy, which unfortunately seems to have been dismantled on our side at least.

[mcalva]

In my country and I think in many others, a lot of companies setted up factories in China to low the production cost and then sell their products "made in China" in European prices. Workers left their jobs and the products, made in China by European companies, not only maintain their price but in some cases increase.
China, once learned the manufacturing procedures, ends up imitating the product but selling it at its real price. That, without a doubt, is a solid argument to buy Chinese products for those who lost their jobs because faced with "real" needings, arguments are not always valid. The entrepreneurs of our countries have made their purses bigger thanks to manufacturing in China. And now those companies are asking for aid to survive, aid that if granted, will come out of the pockets of the workers. Never theirs or big capitals. We all have to share the blame. I believe.

[stmike 1800]

I just bought two exhaust manifolds for a dodge pickup from Napa ,you guessed it made in china .

[mcalva]

My English is certainly not very good but I don't see where I said that.

[mcalva]

I always use my country as an example, which is what I know.
Maybe you could identify the same behaviors over there.
The owners of the fruit and vegetable plantations in some areas hire illegal workers from North Africa,
because they have no rights as european citizens, treat them like animals and practically work to eat
and sleep crowded into a barracon without any kind of sanitation.
The problem is that when the food arrives at the supermarket we buy it without knowing, or without wanting
to know, if that merchandise comes from human exploitation. It is another example of how companies in "rich"
countries make money without caring if the citizens of that country have a job or not.
Later, when something goes wrong, is allways the immigrant or the Chinese people fault.

[Northofthesix]

I always use my country as an example, which is what I know.
Maybe you could identify the same behaviors over there.
The owners of the fruit and vegetable plantations in some areas hire illegal workers from North Africa,
because they have no rights as european citizens, treat them like animals and practically work to eat
and sleep crowded into a barracon without any kind of sanitation.
The problem is that when the food arrives at the supermarket we buy it without knowing, or without wanting
to know, if that merchandise comes from human exploitation. It is another example of how companies in "rich"
countries make money without caring if the citizens of that country have a job or not.
Later, when something goes wrong, is allways the immigrant or the Chinese people fault.

Sadly, the same story everywhere... it is ignorance, wilful ignorance or deliberate "othering" of those with less power. We value inexpensive electronics and cheap food over caring how the people making it manage to live .... there is always some country, people or underclass to exploit.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Sadly, the same story everywhere... it is ignorance, wilful ignorance or deliberate "othering" of those with less power. We value inexpensive electronics and cheap food over caring how the people making it manage to live .... there is always some country, people or underclass to exploit.

That has been the story of humanity since who knows when, the rich and powerful taking advantage of those who aren't. The earliest exploitation of those with little or no power that I know about is the Egyptian Pharaohs enslaving the people of Israel. America experienced that situation very early in its history with the slavery of blacks brought from Africa. Then later the deliberate displacement of Native Americans from the land they had inhabited for centuries. It's just done in a more sophisticated manner and less cruelly today.

[mcalva]

And that is the real problem. We have not learned anything for thousands of years. We continue to act like the Aztecs, Egyptians, Romans, Carthaginians, Greeks and other peoples that I do not remember now ... and where are they now? Only in the history books that tell us how great they were.
While China has allowed itself to be exploited and produced benefits to rich countries, among which I am going to put mine allowing myself a poetic license, there was no problem. Now that they try to impose their economy on the rest of the world problems begin.

What will happen the day that Africa is organized and becomes the great power that it could become if it were not for the interests of other countries? Or if one day the South American countries organize and do things well?

That's the real problem. We continue to enslave the weak so let us not wait for compassion the day that fed up with us they decide to change the order of things. In Europe during the Middle Ages "tributes" were paid to the feudal lords, now we pay them to the states. Before there was slavery and now it is not. Are you sure not now? Current accounts, taxes, mortgages, credits ... and all this depending on whether some "rich man" decides that if you are still useful him, cause If we always use the same ways we will always get the same results and that does not seem to me the best way today.

We continue being slaves of our masters, kings or feudal lords and we believe we are free when in reality the news are distorted so that our opinion goes in favour of interests that at the end we see are not neither yours nor mine. But it is too late.
I’m sorry but sometimes with age I forget the good manners and the political correction.
Of course, this is my humble opinion and surely it will have nothing to do with reality. Ha, ha, ha! Maybe at the end I’m only a Don Quixote.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Well according to the news reports in taiwan, china has a vaccine but doctors in china don't trust it. My wife & I have been trying when possible
to buy non chinese products over the past year & will forever continue to do so

[ARtraveler]

Just a reminder. No political posts.

Next one will result in an infraction and closure of the thread.

[redrazor]

NOT A Political Comment! ...... just a list of very interesting facts:

# When you total up all imports and exports, China is now the number one trading nation on the entire planet.
# Overall, the US has run a trade deficit with China over the past decade that comes to more than 2.3 trillion dollars.
# China has more foreign currency reserves than anyone else on the planet.
# China now has the largest new car market in the entire world.
# China now produces more than twice as many automobiles as the United States does.
# After being bailed out by US taxpayers, GM is involved in 11 joint ventures with Chinese companies.
# China is the number one gold producer in the world.
# The uniforms for the US Olympic team were made in China.
# 85% of all artificial Christmas trees the world over are made in China.
# The new World Trade Center tower in New York is going to include glass imported from China.
# China now consumes more energy than the United States does.
# China is now in aggregate the leading manufacturer of goods in the entire world.
# China uses more cement than the rest of the world combined.
# China is now the number one producer of wind and solar power on the entire globe.
# China produces 3 times as much coal and 11 times as much steel as the United States does.
# China produces more than 90 percent of the global supply of rare earth elements.
# China is now the number one supplier of components that are critical to the operation of any national defense system.
# In published scientific research articles China is expected to become number one in the world very shortly.

[wyliec]

I just tried recently to buy at a website that originates in China. None of my credit/debit cards seemed to work. So, I used my VPN, and then I was able to purchase. I looked a little further into why I wasn't able to purchase, and found the banks/lenders found that there were/are too many scams originating from China. But, those who do not want to purchase from China, that's up to you. What I purchased can no longer be purchased State side; legal issue due to complaints of web providers and the services they offer, like pay per view. When purchased State side, the suppliers here charged 3x the amount, and they had gotten it from China.

[mcalva]

NOT A Political Comment! ...... just a list of very interesting facts:

# When you total up all imports and exports, China is now the number one trading nation on the entire planet.
# Overall, the US has run a trade deficit with China over the past decade that comes to more than 2.3 trillion dollars.
# China has more foreign currency reserves than anyone else on the planet.
# China now has the largest new car market in the entire world.
# China now produces more than twice as many automobiles as the United States does.
# After being bailed out by US taxpayers, GM is involved in 11 joint ventures with Chinese companies.
# China is the number one gold producer in the world.
# The uniforms for the US Olympic team were made in China.
# 85% of all artificial Christmas trees the world over are made in China.
# The new World Trade Center tower in New York is going to include glass imported from China.
# China now consumes more energy than the United States does.
# China is now in aggregate the leading manufacturer of goods in the entire world.
# China uses more cement than the rest of the world combined.
# China is now the number one producer of wind and solar power on the entire globe.
# China produces 3 times as much coal and 11 times as much steel as the United States does.
# China produces more than 90 percent of the global supply of rare earth elements.
# China is now the number one supplier of components that are critical to the operation of any national defense system.
# In published scientific research articles China is expected to become number one in the world very shortly.

Someone did his homework while the rest of us let our politicians (from everywhere not only there) sell us smoke and we fought each other over nonsense.
The problem never was about politics allways was about economy.
No idealism, no religious beliefs, no skin color. Always money, money and more money.
It is a good time to realize where the problem is.

[ARtraveler]

Warnings not heeded.

[Peter Aawen]

The inappropriate & political post immediately after mcalva's has been removed, and as per the comment above and the earlier warnings, this thread is now closed!