Doing away with DESS using BUDS Megatech

[BernardD]

The 2013's & earlier have a completely different system, one that rarely failed and NEVER produced the issues that plagued the 2014's & up - so what is it that makes you think you'd want to turn the DESS off on a 2013 RTS??

Hi Peter,
After some reading and thoughts here is what could makes me (or maybe someone else) think that we would want the DESS off on a 2013 RTS:
- it is not possible to add a new key without a master key and this master key is apparently very difficult to find. Then if I turn off DESS I could use a new key without need to get it programmed.

Cheers
Bernard

[Peter Aawen]

. Then if I turn off DESS I could use a new key without need to get it programmed.

Cheers
Bernard

That might be nice Bernard, and I'd love to know if you find a way; but I don't believe you actually CAN 'turn off' the early DESS system, with or without BUDS Megatech!

It's a whole different ball game for the newer models tho.... just not for the 2013's & earlier.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

That might be nice Bernard, and I'd love to know if you find a way; but I don't believe you actually CAN 'turn off' the early DESS system, with or without BUDS Megatech!

It's a whole different ball game for the newer models tho.... just not for the 2013's & earlier.

..... back in 14 some Dumb*ss engineer fixed the DESS ....THAT WASN'T BROKEN .... sooooo no one has bothered to fix the old one that wasn't broke ...... JMHO ..... Mike

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Hi Peter,
it is not possible to add a new key without a master key and this master key is apparently very difficult to find. Then if I turn off DESS I could use a new key without need to get it programmed.

True, you need the master key to add a new key with a different code. However, you can clone your existing keys as many times as you want and they will all work. Search for cloning key and you'll find the info you need. To be super, super, needlessly safe, clone both keys. You MUST have one existing key to add new keys with new codes. If you lose both keys and have no clones, you will be SOL. But that is the only time you would ever be up the creek, and the likelihood of that is almost nil.

[UtahPete]

I finally pulled the trigger and purchased BUDS with a Megatech license so I can once and for all do away with DESS (Digitally Encrypted Security System). The cost of this is way cheaper than getting stranded on a trip and having to pay for a tow, repair, lodging, rental car and high blood pressure treatment. Here is the video: https://youtu.be/q4kaAfjTODE

I just have to wonder how you evaluate the risk of DESS failure leaving you stranded on a trip vs. the risk of having an unprotected bike stolen (whether on a trip or not). I've got a combined 60k miles on (2) 2014 RTLs with no DESS issues so far and quite frankly in 6 years on this forum have not read of many other members who have experienced catastrophic failures.

Is there really a potential problem that new owners, or just visitors to this form, should be alarmed about, do you think? I realize this is purely a personal decision, so I'm not judging those who weigh the risks differently than I have so far.

[Donbmw]

Starting with 2014 models the keys program to the ECU not TO the DESS module. You need the BUD2 to program the keys. Also depending on the level you have for the software you can turn off the DESS.

Before 2014 you do not need the BUDS software for key programming you only need the master key and know the sequence of turning on and off the bike with the master key then inserting your keys to get them programmed to the DESS module. Get a none chip key made so you can open everything if you do lose a key and so you can get a chip key made if needed. If you lose all your keys all you need to replace is the DESS module and of course you need at least one key. A new DESS module will automatically program a new key when it is first turned on and you might be able to add more keys if you know the sequence. I went through all this on a 2010 I bought from a friend that lost the only key he had.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I just have to wonder how you evaluate the risk of DESS failure leaving you stranded on a trip vs. the risk of having an unprotected bike stolen (whether on a trip or not). I've got a combined 60k miles on (2) 2014 RTLs with no DESS issues so far and quite frankly in 6 years on this forum have not read of many other members who have experienced catastrophic failures.

Is there really a potential problem that new owners, or just visitors to this form, should be alarmed about, do you think? I realize this is purely a personal decision, so I'm not judging those who weigh the risks differently than I have so far.

If your Spyder gets stolen the insurance will pay you .... If the DESS fails it will cost about $1000.00 to towing, parts, repair labor and possibly motel costs. Plus one RUINED vacation .... your choice ...... I had my DESS dis-abled .... If I had to park in an area I thought was questionable I would just pull a few relays..... No one is starting that spyder. ....Back in the day smart kids would take the center wire off the rotor cap .... that engine won't start either ..... JMHO ....Mike

[Peter Aawen]

If your Spyder gets stolen the insurance will pay you .... If the DESS fails it will cost about $1000.00 to towing, parts, repair labor and possibly motel costs. Plus one RUINED vacation .... your choice ...... I had my DESS dis-abled .... If I had to park in an area I thought was questionable I would just pull a few relays..... No one is starting that spyder. ....Back in the day smart kids would take the center wire off the rotor cap .... that engine won't start either ..... JMHO ....Mike

And if the low-lives really WANT to steal your Spyder, a working DESS won't stop them! All it takes is a flat bed with a hoist or a tilt tray & your Spyder's Gone in 30 Seconds! (hey, that'd make a great movie name! ) But the world of angst & frustration you get when you've got no idea if your Spyder will actually start this time is a whole lot more lasting!! It's only about $1000 a fix, only it's a fix that simply puts back the same bits that've already failed?!? You've got to be kidding!!

I dunno if you've bothered to read any of the DESS Failure threads yet Pete, but it sure doesn't seem like you have.... if not maybe you should?? If so, then maybe you should read thru again, and consider that for every one person who's reported DESS problems here, there's probably five or more out there somewhere who haven't - maybe they're not members here (after all, we don't have over 100,000 active members (yet ) so there's gotta be at least a few other Spyder Ryders out there... ) but from the numbers of 2014+ Spyders I've personally seen with a DESS problem, I'd say it's a whole LOT more prevalent (& product reputation/owner confidence destroying ) than most people think.... even more prevalent than some of the Spyder/Ryker issues we've recently seen recalls issued for, only a dodgy DESS isn't specifically a 'safety issue', so it hasn't been subject to a recall &/or fix!

[UtahPete]

Mike and Peter, thanks for sharing your thinking about this. We're focused on different risks. Something for me to think about.

For the benefit of those who don't know, this is the thread, with almost 1000 comments that Peter is referring to;

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...highlight=DESS

Deanna began this in August 2015 when she first encountered the issue with her 2014 RTL. It was a temporary problem and did NOT leave her stranded except momentarily while the system reset itself and worked fine. I am going to re-read that thread and see if I can discern a pattern of causes other than BRP malfeasance. Also, to see how many folks actually got stranded by a permanent DESS error.

[EdMat]

Why do I like my DESS turned off? I can pull over and leave the motor running, get my non-programmed regular ole key out of my pocket and unlock my rear trunk to get something.

[bigbadbrucie]

Why do I like my DESS turned off? I can pull over and leave the motor running, get my non-programmed regular ole key out of my pocket and unlock my rear trunk to get something.

My DESS is still functioning and I can do that.....you don’t need a programmed key to unlock the trunk or the bags!

[EdMat]

My DESS is still functioning and I can do that.....you don’t need a programmed key to unlock the trunk or the bags!

You sir are correct. I use the non-chipped key so much I didn't think before I typed.

[Arkansas35]

I just got the dreaded DESS Error Sunday. I took the Spyder to the dealer and told them I wanted the DESS disabled from all the tips from you fine people. They called me today to come get it that they disabled it for me.
$70 and peace of mind!

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I just got the dreaded DESS Error Sunday. I took the Spyder to the dealer and told them I wanted the DESS disabled from all the tips from you fine people. They called me today to come get it that they disabled it for me.
$70 and peace of mind!

I have Serious doubts they did this .... if BRP ever finds out they did it, that dealership will lose it's affiliation with BRP..... BRP has ALL the records from ALL the BUDS testing that has been or will be performed on EVERY Spyder ever made...... Anyone can go to any BRP dealership anywhere, and learn everything entered into BUDS about a particular Spyder / Ryker., like how many times has it ever exceeded the REV limit. There are still folks in this world who DON'T believe their CELL phones have Tracking ability ..... or " Alexa " doesn't know what you are doing. Believe what you want , but I'm NOT drinking the Kool-Aid..... JMHO, good luck .... Mike

[Peter Aawen]

I just got the dreaded DESS Error Sunday. I took the Spyder to the dealer and told them I wanted the DESS disabled from all the tips from you fine people. They called me today to come get it that they disabled it for me.
$70 and peace of mind!

I think it's probably the only way you'll ever get that peace of mind about the DESS . But in the past, BRP have told their dealers that any dealer who even just buys a licence more capable than than their dealers licence, let alone the megatech licence necessary to do this DESS Disabling, will instantly void their contract with BRP as a dealer . . So I sure hope that you've never associated the username you've used in that post ^ OR ever published any of your Spyder details anywhere on the internet under that username, cos if you have, there's a good chance that it'll be a case of 'goodbye dealer!!'

It's the same with fitting a/mkt tires - BRP really doesn't want any dealers doing that, so anyone who says 'my dealer did' has probably just royally screwed the future of their dealer as a BRP/CanAm outlet!

Yeah, I know it's a sign of a business with a poor customer service ethic & a really insecure management team with a massive lack of confidence in the quality of their product . But hey, it's what we've gotta work with if we want to continue buying & ryding these fantastically enjoyable machines - it's just a shame about the management team & quality control!

[PMK]

I have Serious doubts they did this .... if BRP ever finds out they did it, that dealership will lose it's affiliation with BRP..... BRP has ALL the records from ALL the BUDS testing that has been or will be performed on EVERY Spyder ever made...... Anyone can go to any BRP dealership anywhere, and learn everything entered into BUDS about a particular Spyder / Ryker., like how many times has it ever exceeded the REV limit. There are still folks in this world who DON'T believe their CELL phones have Tracking ability ..... or " Alexa " doesn't know what you are doing. Believe what you want , but I'm NOT drinking the Kool-Aid..... JMHO, good luck .... Mike

More accurately, there are events / parameters that the Spyder monitors which can be viewed in BUDS or BUDS 2 at the dealer, however, BRP does not have ALL the records from ALL the BUDS testing. Those of us not affiliated with dealerships can accomplish a multitude of tasks more than a dealership based BUDS or BUDS 2, and the dealership can not control or see this which is good thing. This allows various tasks to be accomplished, such as DESS concerns. I do believe the one method a dealership could restore oem settings would be a complete reflash of the computers to oem setup. But they can not easily see what has been modified. Data log events yes, see altered settings, no.

In regards to remapping the engine settings, other than data logging rpm, I am not convinced a dealership would be able to actually see any changes done, or have them appear as faults. Possibly though, if a dealership did reflash the computer, I am not sure how that would work out. The facility that modified the map would know how secure their settings are and if they could be overwritten by a dealer during a reflash.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

More accurately, there are events / parameters that the Spyder monitors which can be viewed in BUDS or BUDS 2 at the dealer, however, BRP does not have ALL the records from ALL the BUDS testing. Those of us not affiliated with dealerships can accomplish a multitude of tasks more than a dealership based BUDS or BUDS 2, and the dealership can not control or see this which is good thing. This allows various tasks to be accomplished, such as DESS concerns. I do believe the one method a dealership could restore oem settings would be a complete reflash of the computers to oem setup. But they can not easily see what has been modified. Data log events yes, see altered settings, no.

In regards to remapping the engine settings, other than data logging rpm, I am not convinced a dealership would be able to actually see any changes done, or have them appear as faults. Possibly though, if a dealership did reflash the computer, I am not sure how that would work out. The facility that modified the map would know how secure their settings are and if they could be overwritten by a dealer during a reflash.

Really ..... #1.- very, very few folks have the ability to use / access BUDS ..... #2.- If you take your bike to any of the hundreds of dealers that have NEVER seen THAT Spyder, so have NEVER checked it using THEIR BUDS equipment ..... Where do THEIR BUDS computer get the History from. ..... I think from the FILES kept at BRP ..... of course JMHO , and I have been mis-informed in the past ...... Mike

[PMK]

Really ..... #1.- very, very few folks have the ability to use / access BUDS ..... #2.- If you take your bike to any of the hundreds of dealers that have NEVER seen THAT Spyder, so have NEVER checked it using THEIR BUDS equipment ..... Where do THEIR BUDS computer get the History from. ..... I think from the FILES kept at BRP ..... of course JMHO , and I have been mis-informed in the past ...... Mike

In regards to your reply #1, those that desire BUDS, as we know can obtain it, but it does have a price. Not what everyone needs, but handy to have in many tasks.

Regarding your #2, there are several variations to the answer. Since I myself, and other independent owners of BUDS are not tied in to Can Ams BOSSWEB, the Spyder would not be connected at all to upload anything or download anything.
Most any parameter I alter or clearing of codes will not be seen by a dealers BUDS or BUDS2 equipment.

Regarding all Spyder data being sent to and stored by BRP each time a dealer connects is certainly possible. Need to ask my friend that was a Can Am dealer service manager. He should know if BUDS does a download each time connected. I was under the impression it was more like a Windows or Apple update. The inquiry is strictly based on program updates. Again it is very possible that Microsoft or Apple secretly grabs all your computer files and such during an update, but then again maybe not.

[RudyB]

Where are you located I am on the hook for three third time some wanna be thief stuck a screw driver down the ignition switch

I finally pulled the trigger and purchased BUDS with a Megatech license so I can once and for all do away with DESS (Digitally Encrypted Security System). The cost of this is way cheaper than getting stranded on a trip and having to pay for a tow, repair, lodging, rental car and high blood pressure treatment. Here is the video:

https://youtu.be/q4kaAfjTODE

[alexf415]

I finally pulled the trigger and purchased BUDS with a Megatech license so I can once and for all do away with DESS (Digitally Encrypted Security System). The cost of this is way cheaper than getting stranded on a trip and having to pay for a tow, repair, lodging, rental car and high blood pressure treatment. Here is the video:

https://youtu.be/q4kaAfjTODE

If only you were near my location in Seattle area, I would ask you to disable mine too....

[alexf415]

I finally pulled the trigger and purchased BUDS with a Megatech license so I can once and for all do away with DESS (Digitally Encrypted Security System). The cost of this is way cheaper than getting stranded on a trip and having to pay for a tow, repair, lodging, rental car and high blood pressure treatment. Here is the video:

https://youtu.be/q4kaAfjTODE

So If I buy this kit, I can disable my Dess And my friends spyder DESS too or this is good for one vehicle only?

[Peter Aawen]

Please discuss & only if appropriate, exchange personal info like identification details, phone numbers, etc via PM.

There ARE unscrupulous people out there who will take every opportunity you give them to gain any advantage they can get to aid them in ripping you off, and personal info is a prime commodity - even if they don't want it for themselves, there are those they can sell it to, and others who will buy it and use it!! So Please, always use PM's to exchange any info of that ilk, as per Forum Rule #6

[DarkHelmet]

If you buy this can you use it for another Spyder if you own more than one, or does it marry itself to just one particular bike?

[Peter Aawen]

So If I buy this kit, I can disable my Dess And my friends spyder DESS too or this is good for one vehicle only?

If you buy this can you use it for another Spyder if you own more than one, or does it marry itself to just one particular bike?

The way I understand it, if you buy the MegaTech licence, which has access to turning DESS On or Off, you can use it for many Spyders, not just yours, but only during the time frame your license remains valid.

[alexf415]

The way I understand it, if you buy the MegaTech licence, which has access to turning DESS On or Off, you can use it for many Spyders, not just yours, but only during the time frame your license remains valid.

I just ordered the buds today. My 2020 Spyder F3s with just approx 1800 miles has been sitting on my driveway looking at the nice weather outside, helpless due to that dreaded Check Key message. I just talked to Customer Service, and they satisfied all my questions. With two towing experiences in just 2 days that cost me $525, I'm done trusting this DESS. I'm from Seattle WA.