Safety recall already

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I have a question about the "disclaimer" in red. Is this generic on every search? I have physically verified my vin on the swingarm so I know I put in the correct number.

I don't think that's the first time BRP has fouled up a vehicle registration. Your dealer will have to get it fixed for you.

[MikeT]

Lets see. Misfit panels released to public with ty-wraps. Drastically delayed production of Marsala Red due to paint issues. Coronavirus factory shutdown, and now this? BRP will be very lucky to sell ANY more of these this year.
https://can-am.brp.com/on-road/us/en...-CZZB9Cy2u-ph0

Did anyone keep the video of BRP's "Big Reveal" of the 2020 RT/RTLs from last September for posterity???? In essence BRP lead "us" to believe the 2020 RT/RTL was the "greatest thing since sliced bread". Well, "right out of the box", as much as we had hoped for BRP's September promise to be true, it just ain't so. I feel really bad for all the pre-order customers and the other early adopters who got the sloppily assembled units. My biggest concern is the brake pedal issue. How was this not discovered during factory extreme road testing???? I agree with whoever posted that this should amount to a DO NOT RIDE from BRP to the owners of the affected 2020s.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

How was this not discovered during factory extreme road testing???? I agree with whoever posted that this should amount to a DO NOT RIDE from BRP to the owners of the affected 2020s.

The safety bulletin says it applies to certain serial numbers, i.e., not all 2020 RTs. So everything may have been just fine until a defective batch of parts came in with a hidden defect. In that case it would not have been discovered in pre-production road testing. And for all we know maybe it was discovered in a road test of a random production model. We thing we can be sure of. BRP won't tell us any more than what we absolutely need to know.

[widowmaker2011]

I have a question about the "disclaimer" in red. Is this generic on every search? I have physically verified my vin on the swingarm so I know I put in the correct number.

Mine does not have that message ...odd

[widowmaker2011]

With all due respect ARtraveller, it's the many folks like you that keep going back for more failures that enable BRP to keep producing them. Ride safe and virus free.

With all due respect Freddy, You must not drive a car or truck.....I’ve been in that business since 1987 and oversee 11 franchise dealerships including Toyota , Ford , etc... Toyota , with the highest customer retention percentage of any car built is known as the recall king in our world, our shop has been filled with Toyota recalls for years. Rusted out frames breaking in half, brake failures , electrical failures.... yet still deemed one of the best vehicles on the road. Your arguments don’t hold water. Live and let live brother.... peace .

[Freddy]

This is all Off Topic and irrelevant WM as I said earlier. If folks keep buying unreliable vehicles of any sort this enables the manufacturer to keep producing them. Aren't we seeing that here - again? That's my only point. My experience, your experience and individual research into reliability will guide our individual decisions - hopefully. But it the case of the Spyder lots of folks want one for some form warm fuzzy feeling that it gives them - me included. We see some folks just keep going back for more punishment, many more don't and some just get caught with a lemon.

It reminds me of the recidivist bank robber who, when asked why he robs banks, replied: 'coz that's where the money is.' Why do folks keep buying Spyders when they are not close to being the most reliable machine on offer? Coz that's where the 'fun factor' is.

Ride safe when-if you can.

[bikerbillone]

Having purchased my first Spyder ever, hope I don't find problems but I can tell you, I had, before the Spyder, a GW/Road Smith conversion, a top tier product in the trike industry. Yes, it was a good machine, but not exctly 'trouble free'. I had my GW guru for my 'go to' man, he was good, but I spent tons of $ keeping that beast on the road. Technical riding in the mtns wore me out, rough roads, it rode like a logging truck. I suspect it might have lasted the rest of my years but I can say it would have cost me a pocket full of $ to accomplish that. I really love the ride on my 2020 RTL Spyder and I know is gonna cost me, I knew that going in, but probably no more than my GW/Road Smith cost, maybe less even. But for the excitement and the smooth ride, I'm not looking back.

[Freddy]

Still Off Topic: My point exactly BB.

[MRH]

I'm always puzzled that people buy the first new Spyder off the line on the first year of that style, and are upset that a few issues show up. They always do, and they are (almost) always resolved quickly. Yes, the brake issue is a big deal, BUT they are fixing it quickly. That the recall happened fast is good, not bad. If I bite on a 2020 (coronavirus changes everything), I am glad that they took some extra time to get the red paint right. Most of us already have Spyders, so, if we want to avoid the inevitable corrections, why not just wait until the summer?

[Freddy]

Yes, 'the inevitable corrections' is business as usual at BRP and their niche market of avid customers.

[bikerbillone]

I was ready for the 2020 RTL let me tell you why....I had been checking out the new Spyders every year for several years, the 2020 came along, lots of new stuff including 47 gallons of storage and that did it. I had a 2005 GW with a 2012 Road Smith Conversion and I was ready for a soft, comfortable ride, and so was the the wife. One dealer of several offered me a good trade in and a reasonable bottom line after a 2020 demo ride of 40 mins or so, it was a done deal with no regrets.

[MRH]

Yes, 'the inevitable corrections' is business as usual at BRP and their niche market of avid customers.

You're right, we are a very small market. I'm glad they continue to service it, and I'm willing to give them some grace when they work to do the right thing. As a small business owner, I can tell you that consistently getting it right, even what you offer is simple, is much more difficult than one would think. There are just so many parts, and so many places that things can go wrong. Not every nut and bolt is going to be perfect, and many problems will only show up when there are riders on the road.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Freddy, it's obvious you love bashing the quality level of BRP products. They could be better and one my concerns is they don't have a total complete grasp of the concept of process control. I spent 22 years with the Department of Defense and Department of Energy, much of it involved in overseeing contractors' quality assurance programs. We pushed the quality practices of Edward Deming and Joseph Juran. As you may know Deming was primarily responsible for the quality achievements of Japan after WWII. He stated one time in his later years that if you wanted to see some of the finest examples of top level quality go to Japan. We know that from the quality of Japanese vehicles beginning in the 70's. But, he also said if you wanted to see examples of some of the worst quality practices in manufacturing, go to Japan. BRP isn't the best. BRP isn't the worst. For that think Yugo! In spite of you thinking BRP quality is crap, when looked at objectively it's quite good. Not perfect, but d*** good!

[bikerbillone]

Well said Idaho, that about covers what I said in #36, different strokes I suppose there are some that think that Spyders have all the problems, not so. You can read about problems on every m/c forum. I do agree it might be a good idea to not buy the 'new improved' m/c when it first hits the show room floor, but I did.

[Freddy]

IMS, agreed. The quality and SAFETY of Spyders since inception has been questionable in many cases and appalling in others - but we keep buying them and rewarding the manufacturer coz we buy with our hearts, not our heads. We haven't seen big improvements on these issues in the dozen years BRP has been selling them - that is the only point I make. We are, collectively, gluttons for punishment. From my observations of other motorcycles and their owner forums, Spyder owners get more than their fair share of trouble. That observation is not uncommon on this forum over the 11 years I've been a member of it.

See reply 10 as an example of rewarding the appalling - I hope he got one with reliable brakes.

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...87#post1507987


I believe your comments on Japanese products in those days applies in equal measure to China in recent years.

[PMK]

Freddy, it's obvious you love bashing the quality level of BRP products. They could be better and one my concerns is they don't have a total complete grasp of the concept of process control. I spent 22 years with the Department of Defense and Department of Energy, much of it involved in overseeing contractors' quality assurance programs. We pushed the quality practices of Edward Deming and Joseph Juran. As you may know Deming was primarily responsible for the quality achievements of Japan after WWII. He stated one time in his later years that if you wanted to see some of the finest examples of top level quality go to Japan. We know that from the quality of Japanese vehicles beginning in the 70's. But, he also said if you wanted to see examples of some of the worst quality practices in manufacturing, go to Japan. BRP isn't the best. BRP isn't the worst. For that think Yugo! In spite of you thinking BRP quality is crap, when looked at objectively it's quite good. Not perfect, but d*** good!

As an opinion, in the modern times, it seems companies and management place a lot of confidence in 6 Sigma programs and ISO programs. Not computer programs for those unfamiliar with 6S or ISO, but kind of work environment culture and quality programs. Sadly though, again my opinion, is that many companies fly a 6S and / or ISO banner, claiming to comply, but truthfully, often they become stymied by how the programs become limiters, and then have difficulty adhering to the requirements and being profitable.

The next company in the chain believes they have received a quality item with on time delivery and no incurred costs from having to warehouse items. But if that vendors item is low quality, bad things can happen.

As for the 2020 brake concern, reading not all machines are affected, seems there was a limited number that had a bad day at one of the assembly or welding stations.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

My biggest concern is the brake pedal issue. How was this not discovered during factory extreme road testing????

The safety bulletin says it applies to certain serial numbers, i.e., not all 2020 RTs. So everything may have been just fine until a defective batch of parts came in with a hidden defect. In that case it would not have been discovered in pre-production road testing. And for all we know maybe it was discovered in a road test of a random production model. One thing we can be sure of. BRP won't tell us any more than what we absolutely need to know.

Following up on the above comments. The Safety Recall Report published by NHTSA includes this information. See JCThorne's post: https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...ranty-Bulletin. There are four other documents linked to in the above document.

Four floorboard supports broke on the production line between January 22 and February 18, 2020.
This is a new part introduced for the Spyder RT MY2020.
BRP started its investigation in collaboration with its supplier. The investigation is now completed and BRP
decided in the week of March 23, 2020, to issue a Safety Recall on the affected vehicles.
It was found that some supports may have shrinking cavities which could weaken the part in an undesired
location. The part resistance could therefore be below the potential pressure applied during an emergency
braking situation. The part can break resulting in a disconnection between the brake pedal and the brake
system.
We have no report from the field.

Based on the words "shrinking cavities", and on the sketches in the TSB issued to dealers, I surmise this piece is a casting. Metals, when they cool during casting, can shrink and if the shrinkage isn't properly factored in the metal can have cavities form inside. I've no idea what the metal is. A visual inspection of the piece won't disclose the defects. I hope BRP engineers are reviewing the support bracket in all respects including shape, size, material, and manufacturing process. Maybe they did thoroughly review all that and the vendor in Viet Nam was careless. We won't ever know, but I'm sure BRP does.