Connect Starter Solenoid

[Knipper]

Hi Spyder lovers

I went to replace the battery on 2012 Can AM spyder RT, and I accidentally disconnected the wires on the starter solenoid. If any of you connected the starter solenoid on a spyder? There are washer on the bottom then positive cable then a long nut with more washer and the ignition cable. Tried to connected with both cables touching and the bike started turning over on its own like a short. What I need to know does it make a difference if both the small ignition wire and positive cable are touching, or does nut need to separated the two. Both cables are on the same post. Trying to reconnect back to factory but really need to know how many washer go on the bottom and how on the top bolt that goes into the nut on the top. You have to get it actually right or it wont tighten down.

One more issue after the battery is replaced, the bikes shows its in 1st gear when its in neutral, due to I can push the bike back and forth. I tried to shift it but nothing happening. What does that have to do with the battery? Please help thought this would be easy battery change, been working on it for hours and really dont want to have to take it to a dealer. If you can help please text me or call me at 478-960-9607.

Thanks.

Henry K

[billybovine]

Here is a picture from the 2011 service manual. I hope it helps.

If your Spyder RT is a SE model. It does not matter what gear it is in. It will roll without the parking brake set. The centrifugal clutch will only engage with enough engine rpm. Because it is in gear. Make sure you apply the brake or the starter will not work. When started and the engine reaches idle speed. The transmission will shift to neutral on it's own.

[Knipper]

Thanks but not even close to the same, I just have two wires the positive battery cable and the ignition wire, I put both on together and the starter engaged, the problem was bike was not on and it would not disengaged, so I am thinking the two cables have to be separated on the same post. I am going to download my own manual. I really do appreciate the help.

[EdMat]

if the two wires are on the same post there is no way they can be electrically separated. Can you shoot a picture of what you have and post it?

[Knipper]

Starter Solenoid..jpg

As you will see in the photo there is positive battery cable then ignition wire going on one terminal. The original way is was set up was positive cable was on the bottom setting on top of the washer, then a long nut with the ignition wire going on a bolt then into a nut, I have never ever seen solenoid on anything connected this way and my issue is I did not take picture before hand. The trick is you have to have the exact amount of washer to set positive cable on, due to the long nut has to be tight, but leave enough room for the bolt to go into the top with the ignition wire and tighten down. If anyone has 2012 model they can open the seat and see the connection. Not sure if the picture download I did attached it to the post.

What I was thinking to make it easier was to put the positive cable and the ignition wire together and just put the nut on tighten down When I did that the starter engaged without the key being on and did not shut off until I removed the wires. Either I have a short in the solenoid or both wires cannot be touching on the same terminal. Plus the display is showing the bike in 1st gear, but its in neutral and the shifter is not working. Ugh, never thought changing a battery would be so difficult.

[Peter Aawen]

As Edmat said, it makes no difference if those wires are connected together or with a nut separating them - if they are on the same bolt, they are electrically connected!! So if they were connected onto the same terminal originally (regardless of HOW that was originally achieved) then putting them back on the same terminal (once again, no matter HOW you might actually achieve that - separated by a nut or jammed together...) it makes no never-mind!! They are BOTH equally electrically connected to that terminal & getting power thru the bolt securing them... and swapping their order on that bolt &/or spacing them out on that bolt in any different order or any different way with any nuts or even with a rubber washer between them will not make any difference at all to their electrical connection!

So either you've got your wires/terminals mixed up somehow, & one of those two wires doesn't belong on that terminal at all (sorta doubt it's that?!? ) or there's something else going on to make the starter engage! Jammed solenoid maybe? Short elsewhere??

Good Luck!

[EdMat]

That smaller wire may have been added by someone to power an accessory of some type. You would have to trace it out to see. People often tap onto the solenoid positive post for various power needs.

I would expect to see 4 wires going to the solenoid. 2 smaller wires to separate small terminals. 2 larger wires coming off separate large post (studs), one going to the battery and the other going to the starter.

[merlot]

as edmat said
the 2 smaller wires need to be apart
i think you inadvertantly powered up the small wire causing the solenoid to activate

starter solenoids generally havent changed

here is 2016 F3

the small wires push on but yours prob hold on with nuts



hope you get it sorted

russ

[Snowbelt Spyder]

That smaller wire may have been added by someone to power an accessory of some type. You would have to trace it out to see. People often tap onto the solenoid positive post for various power needs.

I would expect to see 4 wires going to the solenoid. 2 smaller wires to separate small terminals. 2 larger wires coming off separate large post (studs), one going to the battery and the other going to the starter.

Agree. Henry - That smaller wire you are calling the ignition wire, isn't a stock wire. It's been added after the fact and probably has nothing to do with ignition at all - unless there's been some jury rigged repair made. Adding that extra bolt to the large nut in order to attach another wire is homemade. Trace it out or leave it off. Agree that it's been added there by somebody just wanting to tap into battery power. The stock setup is the two large red wires go on the two large studs, and the two smaller wires on the two smaller push on terminals. The long nut is stock. It allows clipping a battery charger onto it. 4 wires total, not 5.

[Knipper]

Thanks, I take closer look at it tonight, here is what I have on the positive terminal of the battery, I have two wires that are tied together on one terminal, two other red wires, one with nothing on it and the other one with a fuse. I thought the two wires tied together and the one with the fuse goes to the battery. The other red wire I have attached to the started solenoid. I don't see any other wires. Plus my other issue is the bike is showing 1st gear on the dash panel, but the bike is in neutral due to I can roll it back and forth. I cannot get the bike to shift/ Does the shifter have anything to do with the battery? Sure wish I would took a picture before I disconnected all these wires


Although the more I think about this maybe the two wires tied together go on the starter solenoid, the other red wire with the fuse red wire go on the positive terminal, due to this would connect the starter and battery together.

[billybovine]

As explained before. If your RT is a SE model. The engine must be running to shift gears.

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Well Henry. I take it that you're not the original owner. Looks like your machine has had some modifications to it for some extra equipment. Since we don't know what that is or might have been, we can only talk about what is the stock configuration.

Refer to the picture (you may not have the red protective rubber boot shown on the positive battery terminal any more.) On the positive battery terminal, you have 3 red wires. Two of them come together into one connector and the third has its own connector. Now then, the two wires that are joined together into the single connector - the shorter one goes to the starter solenoid to the stud that has the long nut on it. The other red wire runs over to the right side under the seat, and goes to that fuse box that contains the square fuses. The one red wire by itself runs forward along the side of the gas tank, and contains that 60 amp fuse inside the rubber cover. There are only three wires total - and two connectors - to the battery positive terminal.

On the solenoid, you have the one red wire that we just mentioned came from the positive terminal of the battery. It goes on the stud with the long nut and is the only wire on that stud. You have another red wire on the solenoid, directly opposite from that one that goes to your starter motor. And you have the two little wires that go onto the push on connectors. Those are the two wires that operate the solenoid when you push the start button - causing the solenoid to connect battery power to the starter motor. Only 4 wires total on the solenoid.

That's it. Don't know what any other wires could be for. Any other wires you have hanging around is for something that was added at a later date and may not even be installed anymore.

FYI - your transmission, even though it may be controlled by an electrical switch, requires oil pressure to actually move the mechanism. Nothing will happen until you start the motor. As Billy said - foot on the brake, start the motor, the transmission will shift itself into Neutral.

PS - Check out this video at the 12 minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QKaanJDmE

[Knipper]

Making some progress new issue you said the two cables that are tied together one goes to the terminal on the solenoid and the other goes on terminal by a fuse box. I do not see a fuse box. The only place I see to connected is directly to the battery along with the cable with the fuse. I did that and the starter engaging, however the key is not on and will not disengage until I remove the cable. Do I have short in the solenoid? Plus that cable is not that long and I find it hard to believe that it goes any place else beside the battery terminal. That's why I am thinking I have shorted solenoid. Spyder battery cables.jpgBattery Spyder.jpghok1964@yahoo.com

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Alright. Thanks for the picture. Sorry about the confusion about the fuse box. I was simply explaining where the OTHER END of one of the red wires goes. You didn't disconnect that so don't be concerned about that. See your owners manual page 147 about the fuse box. The two ends you are concerned about are in your first picture and I have labeled where they go. The one that goes on the solenoid goes on the stud with the long nut by itself. No other wires on it. On the other stud, by itself, is the wire going down to the starter motor. I don't believe you disconnected that one. No other wires on that one either. Make sure they're not touching each other and that there aren't any washers shorting between the two studs. Leave that small 5th wire you were calling the ignition wire disconnected. I have no idea what that wire is for. Then, the only other two wires on the solenoid are the two little ones on the push on connectors. 4 wires. None of them touch each other. The red wire with the large voltage regulator fuse in it, as shown in the picture from my other post - and in the video - that runs along side the gas tank, also goes onto the positive battery post. No other connections on the positive battery terminal but those. The two connectors for the three wires.

[Knipper]

Thanks and greatly appreicated, I connected just like you said and the solenoid engages as soon as I touch the postive cable to the battery, with key off, I never touched any of the other cables on the solenoid, only the one postive. I am thinking I have shorted solenoid, or could it be in the fuse box. If it is where is the fuse box located. I live in Ga ans our gov just but us in mandatory shelter in pleace for the next 10 days, so no riding and plenty of time to get this bike fixed.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Thanks and greatly appreicated, I connected just like you said and the solenoid engages as soon as I touch the postive cable to the battery, with key off, I never touched any of the other cables on the solenoid, only the one postive. I am thinking I have shorted solenoid, or could it be in the fuse box. If it is where is the fuse box located. I live in Ga ans our gov just but us in mandatory shelter in pleace for the next 10 days, so no riding and plenty of time to get this bike fixed.

Did you leave the wire with the eye terminal disconnected as Snowbelt shows? If so, pull one of the other wires off the solenoid and then try touching the cable to the battery. If nothing happens then that tells you that somewhere else the power wire to the solenoid is getting fed 12 volt power. Look for the relay for the starter solenoid. It might be stuck. There are two fuse boxes, one under the seat and one under the front storage compartment lid. Look in the owner's manual. If you don't have one download it here: www.operatorsguides.brp.com/. Also, get the service manual. It should have a wiring diagram in it. You can get it for about $15 to $20 here: www.canammanuals.com.

[Knipper]

Thanks will check out the relay and the manual tonight, do you where the best place is to buy parts. I called my local dealer they want $54.00 for solenoid.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Thanks will check out the relay and the manual tonight, do you where the best place is to buy parts. I called my local dealer they want $54.00 for solenoid.

Search the net for BRP & Part Number. I'd even look on eBay for a used or new old stock one. I would say the solenoid is bad only if when you pull one of the little wires and touch the battery terminal the starter turns. I don't know about the 2012 but on 2013 and later there is a shunt wire with diode across the the coil terminals on the solenoid but I don't think that is the cause of your problem unless the wrong wire got connected there somewhere.

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Hi Henry. Cheap Cycle Parts has the solenoid for 46.99. Looks like you can find a compatible replacement on eBay for around 25 bucks. And yeah, like Idaho said, just pull off one of the small wires from the solenoid - pull it straight off, not sideways - move it aside so it's not touching anything, and try to hook up your battery connection again. If the starter turns again, the problem is internal to the solenoid. Just replace it. If it doesn't turn over, then touch the small wire you removed back onto its terminal and see if the starter turns over. If it does, then that's a sign that something is energizing the solenoid when it shouldn't be, and your solenoid is ok. If the latter is the case, we'll have to take a deeper dive into this. Two other relays would have to fail at the same time to cause this, but I'm not going to overload you with information right now. Let's just do that go - no go test of the solenoid right now.

Yes, the 2012's had a diode, but it is located separately away from the solenoid.

[Knipper]

First thanks again for all the help the small wire on top of the solenoid is for the battery tender, I did remove one small wire from the solenoid terminal and it still turned over, there are just the two small wires on separate solenoid and the positive to the battery and positive to the starter. I did find a pre start relay, is that the solenoid relay? I did download the owners manual and looking into it now. I did not see a shunt wire with a diode.. I dont mind spending $55.00 for a solenoid, I just want to make sure that's the issue the part is non refundable. During all these connection issue I could had it wired wrong and caused it to short out. .

[Knipper]

Hello again, I read up on the testing the relay and the solenoid, the issue is it requires power to do the testing and if I connect the cables correctly the bike will continue to turn over and not stop. Not unless I can leave the cable off to the solenoid, but how would i get proper test voltages. I have removed both the violet wire and yellow wire, still when I touch the positive to the battery starter engages.

[Knipper]

When looking for a new solenoid Amazon sells them for 2012 Spyder RT roadster for $7.99, do you know if it will work. Instead of paying $55 at the dealer. Although 7.99 seems to cheap to me. The one difference is both small terminals are on one side where the solenoid in the bike has the two small wire terminals on opposite side. My spyder 2012 Audio. Convenience model

Amazon solenoid
Cyleto Starter Solenoid Relay for CAN AM SPYDER RTS Roadster/SPYDER RT Roadster/SPYDER RS RSS Roadster

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Ok then. That tells us a lot. If you removed one or both of the small wires from the solenoid, and it still turned over, that tells you that it was a problem with the solenoid, and not a problem with the pre-start relay. Because, removing the small wires from the solenoid prevents any power from getting to the solenoid from the pre-start relay in the first place, and accidentally energizing it when it is not supposed to. There's something wrong internally with the solenoid. I'd feel comfortable replacing the solenoid at this point.

But if you want to be doubly sure, remove the red wire that comes from the battery from the solenoid stud, such that there is nothing at all on that stud. Use your meter, set it to continuity testing, and take a reading across the two large studs on the solenoid. One stud has nothing on it at all, and the other has the starter motor wire. And that's ok. If it reads close to 0 ohms, you have a internal short on the solenoid. Go ahead and replace it. After that, cut it open and see what happened if you want.

FYI for the future - that 12 volt accessory plug on the left hand side of the rear trunk is always energized, even if the key is off. That's a nice feature of the 2012. So, you can get the proper plug-in connector for your battery tender and just plug it into that accessory plug. You don't need any extra wires going to the battery.

[Snowbelt Spyder]

When looking for a new solenoid Amazon sells them for 2012 Spyder RT roadster for $7.99, do you know if it will work. Instead of paying $55 at the dealer. Although 7.99 seems to cheap to me. The one difference is both small terminals are on one side where the solenoid in the bike has the two small wire terminals on opposite side. My spyder 2012 Audio. Convenience model

Amazon solenoid
Cyleto Starter Solenoid Relay for CAN AM SPYDER RTS Roadster/SPYDER RT Roadster/SPYDER RS RSS Roadster

Yeah, when searching for replacement solenoids, you want to be sure that the terminals are in the same layout, and that the mounting feet are in the same configuration. Otherwise, you don't have a lot of extra wire length to try to move things around under there. I like plug and play myself. Even if it costs a little more.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Ok then. That tells us a lot. If you removed one or both of the small wires from the solenoid, and it still turned over, that tells you that it was a problem with the solenoid, and not a problem with the pre-start relay. Because, removing the small wires from the solenoid prevents any power from getting to the solenoid from the pre-start relay in the first place, and accidentally energizing it when it is not supposed to. There's something wrong internally with the solenoid. I'd feel comfortable replacing the solenoid at this point.

But if you want to be doubly sure, remove the red wire that comes from the battery from the solenoid stud, such that there is nothing at all on that stud. Use your meter, set it to continuity testing, and take a reading across the two large studs on the solenoid. One stud has nothing on it at all, and the other has the starter motor wire. And that's ok. If it reads close to 0 ohms, you have a internal short on the solenoid. Go ahead and replace it. After that, cut it open and see what happened if you want.

Just what I was going to suggest!