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  1. #51
    Very Active Member troop's Avatar
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    Oil sight glass would've been convenient..


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  2. #52
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwolf View Post
    There is nothing wrong with the dipstick we have now. What they need to do is to write some simple and reasonable instructions on the manual.
    Problem is not the oem BRP Dipstick but the Dipsticks trying to read the dipstick. This is an oil level check. Not difficult. Start engine, run a few minutes and check. Being a tad below full is ok, thats why there is a range. The oil level only increases very slightly when fully hot. Simple, do not fill to max when cold checking it.

    The true humor in this / these oil level topics is that the 1330 arrived in 2014 and now 6 years later owners still can not figure it out. They need an in plain sight oil gauge or idiot light that says to add oil.

  3. #53
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by troop View Post
    Oil sight glass would've been convenient..
    Or that too for those with IOLCS.

  4. #54
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    IOLCS = Improper Oil Level Check Syndrome

  5. #55
    Very Active Member Lew L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by troop View Post
    Oil sight glass would've been convenient..




    My poor,old ,slow Yamaha V-Max has a sight glass on the right side of the V-4 motor. Very convenient on the pre-ride check.

    Lew L
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  6. #56
    Very Active Member Gwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    Problem is not the oem BRP Dipstick but the Dipsticks trying to read the dipstick. This is an oil level check. Not difficult. Start engine, run a few minutes and check. Being a tad below full is ok, thats why there is a range. The oil level only increases very slightly when fully hot. Simple, do not fill to max when cold checking it.

    The true humor in this / these oil level topics is that the 1330 arrived in 2014 and now 6 years later owners still can not figure it out. They need an in plain sight oil gauge or idiot light that says to add oil.
    Rode the hard mount, Harley XLs from the mid-1990s until last year. Still own 2 of them. They are also dry sump with a remote oil tank. All you have to do is start the engine, let it run a few minutes, (about the time it takes to back it out of the shop), and then pull the dipstick out of the remote oil tank. You can check it with the engine running. So simple, but even then, on the forums, there was some new owner about once a week that checked it before cold start, added a quart, and then blew the dipstick out of the remote oil tank, showering everything in 20 feet with oil. People are driving around in cars they have owned for several years and don't know where the dipstick is. Owner's manual has no greasy fingerprints on it at all.
    2019 F3-S , Black & Silver

  7. #57
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwolf View Post
    Rode the hard mount, Harley XLs from the mid-1990s until last year. Still own 2 of them. They are also dry sump with a remote oil tank. All you have to do is start the engine, let it run a few minutes, (about the time it takes to back it out of the shop), and then pull the dipstick out of the remote oil tank. You can check it with the engine running. So simple, but even then, on the forums, there was some new owner about once a week that checked it before cold start, added a quart, and then blew the dipstick out of the remote oil tank, showering everything in 20 feet with oil. People are driving around in cars they have owned for several years and don't know where the dipstick is. Owner's manual has no greasy fingerprints on it at all.
    As they often say, if you are going to be stupid you better be tough, or in the case of checking oil on a Spyder tough is replaced by a deep pocket with lots of money.

    Ironic but true, I know of a local that had his oil overfilled by the dealer. They had to to remove 1 1/2 quarts from his 1330. Others here have had tremendous oil leaks, support here suggested properly checking the oil. In almost all times, way too much oil was in the engine. They removed the excess, the leak stopped and all was good.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    As they often say, if you are going to be stupid you better be tough, or in the case of checking oil on a Spyder tough is replaced by a deep pocket with lots of money.

    Ironic but true, I know of a local that had his oil overfilled by the dealer. They had to to remove 1 1/2 quarts from his 1330. Others here have had tremendous oil leaks, support here suggested properly checking the oil. In almost all times, way too much oil was in the engine. They removed the excess, the leak stopped and all was good.
    Now you know of two people who had their 1330's overfilled by the dealer. After I got home with my new spyder I checked my liquids. Brake fluid, coolant and oil. They were all full, however the oil was WAY OVER full, by 1.5 qts . And then once again, after my 3000 mile dealer service, the spyder was over filled once more by 1.5 qts. Each time I questioned the service manager about the situations and was told that the service dept employees installed the factory recommended amount of oil.

  9. #59
    Very Active Member Gwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2dogs View Post
    Now you know of two people who had their 1330's overfilled by the dealer. After I got home with my new spyder I checked my liquids. Brake fluid, coolant and oil. They were all full, however the oil was WAY OVER full, by 1.5 qts . And then once again, after my 3000 mile dealer service, the spyder was over filled once more by 1.5 qts. Each time I questioned the service manager about the situations and was told that the service dept employees installed the factory recommended amount of oil.
    Time to find a new dealer..................
    2019 F3-S , Black & Silver

  10. #60
    Very Active Member pegasus1300's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder View Post
    Where would the check valve be? The oil from the tank goes to the suction side of the pressure pump so you need oil flow in that direction. Did perchance the British bikes have the oil reservoir tank below the crankcase? In that case you'd want a check valve to keep the oil from draining from the sump to the reservoir. Or are you by chance thinking of the relief valve that causes oil to circulate from outlet to inlet of the pressure pump to keep the oil pressure below a max pressure? The Rotax engine has that.
    No the oil tanks were always way above the crank case, and the inlet to the pressure side of the pump and the return line were on the bottom of the case. The check valve would be in the return line to the tank.

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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    Problem is not the oem BRP Dipstick but the Dipsticks trying to read the dipstick. This is an oil level check. Not difficult. Start engine, run a few minutes and check. Being a tad below full is ok, thats why there is a range. The oil level only increases very slightly when fully hot. Simple, do not fill to max when cold checking it.

    The true humor in this / these oil level topics is that the 1330 arrived in 2014 and now 6 years later owners still can not figure it out.
    Well, the engine may have been around for six years or so, but we have yet to take posession of the vehicle, which is why THIS 'dipstick' is trying to get it right before messing it up.

    I still say it's way too complicated a process for what should be a very simple task.

    .

  12. #62
    Very Active Member Gwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve W. View Post
    Well, the engine may have been around for six years or so, but we have yet to take posession of the vehicle, which is why THIS 'dipstick' is trying to get it right before messing it up.

    I still say it's way too complicated a process for what should be a very simple task.

    .
    It is really simple. The manual just makes it seem complicated. After you check it one time, you can do it from then on, same as checking the oil in your car. There is nothing complicated about it. You just have to run it before you check it, unlike the wet sump systems on most vehicles. You don't need to check it but once every 1,000 miles if you don't see any puddles under it. That would only be about once a month or less, for most people.
    2019 F3-S , Black & Silver

  13. #63
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus1300 View Post
    No the oil tanks were always way above the crank case, and the inlet to the pressure side of the pump and the return line were on the bottom of the case. The check valve would be in the return line to the tank.
    Did you see my photos above? The pressure pump inlet is about 1/4 of the way from bottom to top. The way I read the manual the outlet, of course, goes to the engine but the pressure relief line goes to the pump inlet, not back into the tank. The only oil going into the tank is from the three scavenger pumps. So contrary to what you apparently are used to seeing there is no outlet/inlet at the bottom of the tank, at least not that I have been able to discern. But there must be one somewhere to drain the oil when we change engine oil.

    2014 Copper RTS

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  14. #64
    Very Active Member Gwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder View Post
    Did you see my photos above? The pressure pump inlet is about 1/4 of the way from bottom to top. The way I read the manual the outlet, of course, goes to the engine but the pressure relief line goes to the pump inlet, not back into the tank. The only oil going into the tank is from the three scavenger pumps. So contrary to what you apparently are used to seeing there is no outlet/inlet at the bottom of the tank, at least not that I have been able to discern. But there must be one somewhere to drain the oil when we change engine oil.
    There is only one scavenger pump. There is scavenger sumps for each cylinder that drain to the scavenger pump pickup, but only one pump. It is a two stage setup, geared to the pressure pump that supplies lube oil to the bearings. They are located very low on the left side of the block.

    The long oil plug bolt on the left side with the o-rings in the center of it, opens a gallery when it is removed that drains both the sumps at the same time. When the plug is installed, the center o-rings keep the dry sump and holding tank from mixing.
    2019 F3-S , Black & Silver

  15. #65
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    OK, I think I found it. In this close up you can see a recess in the casting. It looks like it could be the passage back into the crankcase. This is just above the bend in the arrow in the photo above. If I'm right then this is where oil is free to move back and forth between the crankcase and tank. Looking in the service manual photos of the upper and lower halves of the cylinder block there are noted oil passages that go to the sump directly in line with this point of the block. I can copy pics from the manual if anyone wants.

    1330 Engine lower oil channel.jpg

    2014 Copper RTS

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  16. #66
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwolf View Post
    There is only one scavenger pump.
    Sorry to have to quibble with you. This is from Subsection 04 (Lubrication System) of the 2014 service manual.

    1330 scavenge pump 1.JPG 1330 scavenge pump 2.JPG

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    2014 RTS , Copper! (officially Cognac)

  17. #67
    Very Active Member Gwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder View Post
    Sorry to have to quibble with you. This is from Subsection 04 (Lubrication System) of the 2014 service manual.

    1330 scavenge pump 1.JPG 1330 scavenge pump 2.JPG
    It is not separate pumps. It is sets of internal gear pumps mounted on the same shaft (stages of the same pump). The pressure feed pump is on the next shaft and they are geared to each other. There is another pump, but it is not listed as part of the lubrication system. It is inside the clutch cover and returns oil so that there is circulation in the transmission and clutch.

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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwolf View Post
    Time to find a new dealer..................
    That was five years and 40k miles ago. I figured it out in the first 30 minutes and 30 miles of ownership. BRP and numerous owners are still struggling with it.

  19. #69
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwolf View Post
    It is not separate pumps. It is sets of internal gear pumps mounted on the same shaft (stages of the same pump). The pressure feed pump is on the next shaft and they are geared to each other. There is another pump, but it is not listed as part of the lubrication system. It is inside the clutch cover and returns oil so that there is circulation in the transmission and clutch.
    I'll guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on how we interpret the written description and the diagrams. The description sure reads to me like there are 3 different pumps pumping 3 different sources of oil with 3 different discharges. I see 3 different single stage pumps on two different shafts driven by 2 sets of gears.

    2014 Copper RTS

    Tri-Axis bars, CB, BajaRon sway bar & shock adjusters, SpyderPop's Bumpskid, NBV peg brackets, LED headlights and modulator, Wolo trumpet air horns, trailer hitch, custom trailer harness, high mount turn signals, Custom Dynamics brake light, LED turn signal lights on mirrors, LED strip light for a dash light, garage door opener, LED lights in frunk, trunk, and saddlebags, RAM mounts and cradles for tablet (for GPS) and phone (for music), and Smooth Spyder belt tensioner.
    2014 RTS , Copper! (officially Cognac)

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2dogs View Post
    I figured it out in the first 30 minutes and 30 miles of ownership. BRP and numerous owners are still struggling with it.


    And I am just doing what I can so it does not take that long.

    .

  21. #71
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve W. View Post
    Well, the engine may have been around for six years or so, but we have yet to take posession of the vehicle, which is why THIS 'dipstick' is trying to get it right before messing it up.

    I still say it's way too complicated a process for what should be a very simple task.

    .
    If you are awaiting delivery of the Spyder, very cool. As for checking the oil, it was easy in the first year, when BRP came out and stated to run the engine until the fans cycled twice before checking, then it got really crazy.

    Being absolutely serious, it is an easy check. Start engine, let idle for a minute or two. Shut down and check oil right away at a casual pace. The amount of change from cold oil to expanded hot oil is almost nil.

    The people that screw up checking oil level either never run the engine prior to checking and keep adding oil, or they can not see the level on the dipstick and keep dumping oil in.

    As I mentioned it is very easy to check.

    Now if you want to know what is difficult to check, try and get a good look at the coolant level on the 2014 to 2019 Spyder RT series. Now that is a bother.

  22. #72
    Very Active Member pegasus1300's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    If you are awaiting delivery of the Spyder, very cool. As for checking the oil, it was easy in the first year, when BRP came out and stated to run the engine until the fans cycled twice before checking, then it got really crazy.

    Being absolutely serious, it is an easy check. Start engine, let idle for a minute or two. Shut down and check oil right away at a casual pace. The amount of change from cold oil to expanded hot oil is almost nil.

    The people that screw up checking oil level either never run the engine prior to checking and keep adding oil, or they can not see the level on the dipstick and keep dumping oil in.

    As I mentioned it is very easy to check.

    Now if you want to know what is difficult to check, try and get a good look at the coolant level on the 2014 to 2019 Spyder RT series. Now that is a bother.
    Same for the 2010-2012 series also

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  23. #73
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    This I can tell you...Last evening I warmed up my 2014 RTS and then I removed both drain plugs and left it up on the lift overnight,,,Today I changed the oil filter and the HCM FILTER...Installed all new o-rings and sealing washers...I put 5.2 quarts (5 qts. 6 oz.) of Amsoil...Started it up and ran until fans cycled off and on 3 times...CHECK THE OIL WITHIN 2 MINUTES OR SO AND IT WAS RIGHT ON THE FULL MARK ON THE DIP STICK...larryd

  24. #74
    Very Active Member Wildrice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlot View Post
    i recently did an oil change on my 2016 f3lim
    i checked the handbook and the workshop manual and it specd 4.7 litres with filter
    so thats what it got......i dont try to check with dipstick as i find dry sump engines a little fluky to check

    anyway,a punter comes over for an oil change,not long after,with a 2019 F3 so i checked his book for capacity,just to be anal, and it calls for 5.2 litres

    so i went back to my bike and checked the dip stick(something i never do...i change oil every 5000kms or 3000miles)and i find no oil on the dipstick

    so why are there 2 different recommends? one 4.7 and one 5.2? or am i reading things wrongly?

    russ
    My 2015 F3's takes the full 6 qts. I've checked it several ways including within 2 min after turning it off while some oil my be in the oil sump. Not a problem to me--F3's runs great at 7K miles--I had 2 yrs of health issues---prostate radiation --back surgery thus 7K in 3 yrs mostly short trips. 118 mph top on speedo prior to Stage 2 upgrade & it was still climbing until traffic forced me to back off.
    2015 F3's , two 12 volt power outlets Orange & Black

  25. #75
    SpyderLovers Sponsor merlot's Avatar
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    i think im going to discount the 5.2litres recommended for the 2019 only
    the next oil change ill be adding 5litres
    this is a useful amount here in aust as most oil bottles are either 4litres or 5 litres
    we dont usually see gallons or quarts
    i just need to use up the remaining T6 oil i have....i bought around 30gallons when i was working and these jugs come in 3.7litre quantities,or 1 gallon

    russ
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    bike has endured elect spike (was jump started incorrectly)
    still a WIP but bike is now running and registered....swapped out 5 modules mostly sourced from Canadian wrecker

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