Fuels for Spyders?

[Arcamguy]

In San Antonio Texas we have a gas station/convenience store named QT (QuickTrip), very nice stores. They offer all three grade of gasoline, regular unleaded-87, mid unleaded-90, and premium unlead-93 octane all with made with 10% ethanol. QT also offers a non-ethanol grade of gasoline at 90 octane and is the only gas station that I know that has this offering.
Which premium gasoline would be better for our Spyders, premium-93 octane with 10% ethanol or 100% non ethanol gasoline at 90 octane?

Thanks Arcamguy

"Practice social distancing and ride your Spyders."

[Mikey]

Non ethanol would be my choice!!!

[ARtraveler]

You are going to get answers all over the place.

Here is some more "fuel" to the fire.

I have been riding Spyders since they first came out. Now on #6 and 156,000 assorted miles.

When I first got them and until about 2017, I put in the highest octane (90 in Alaska). No ethanol in AK.

In 2017 or so, I changed to 87 octane just to test the waters. Also no ethanol added. Worked fine for me.

Fast forward to 2020. Moved to Arkansas. Here I use 87 octane with 10% ethanol added. I added a new 2019 F3 to the mix also.

I notice NO performance issues and my MPG on both 1330's (2014 and 2019) is mostly in the high 30's.

We do not have a winter layover....so most of the time, the bikes have been ridden at least twice a week.

That's my story, and I'm stickin to it.

[BajaRon]

Non ethanol would be my choice!!!

I agree. I'd go with the non-ethanol fuel as well.

[carbonation]

90 octane, ethanol free.
BUT, you need to ask if that fuel still gets the top tier detergent additive that is in their other fuels.
What are they marketing the ethanol free for?
Boats, off-road, OPE?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

You are going to get answers all over the place.

Here is some more "fuel" to the fire.

I have been riding Spyders since they first came out. Now on #6 and 156,000 assorted miles.

When I first got them and until about 2017, I put in the highest octane (92 in Alaska). No ethanol in AK.

In 2017 or so, I changed to 87 octane just to test the waters. Also no ethanol added. Worked fine for me.

Fast forward to 2020. Moved to Arkansas. Here I use 87 octane with 10% ethanol added. I added a new 2019 F3 to the mix also.

I notice NO performance issues and my MPG on both 1330's (2014 and 2019) is mostly in the high 30's.

We do not have a winter layover....so most of the time, the bikes have been ridden at least twice a week.

That's my story, and I'm stickin to it.

.... and something that isn't mentioned too often ..... the freshest gas .... Matters .... As gas sits in the tank it is losing Octane , it does take awhile, so how much is lost is debatable ..... I have close to 100,000 on three Spyders .... used 87 w/ethanol in all of them .... never noticed any loss in performance ( I did test them w/91 for a few weeks when I bought them ). .... good luck .... Mike

[sduskin]

I took the advice of a sport bike rider friend of mine and put 100 in my 2014 RTS SM6 once. It felt MUCH faster on the acceleration. LOL but the gas mileage did drop.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I took the advice of a sport bike rider friend of mine and put 100 in my 2014 RTS SM6 once. It felt MUCH faster on the acceleration. LOL but the gas mileage did drop.

Octane alone can't do that ..... UNLESS you increase the compression of that engine .... google it ..... Mike

[tofriendscreek]

I’m with AR Traveler on this post. I’ve ridden Spyders since 2009, an RS. I’ve had an RT and now an F3. I’ve ridden them collectively over 100K miles. The overwhelming majority of those miles were powered by 87, with 10% ethanol. I’ve never had an issue.

[carbonation]

I took the advice of a sport bike rider friend of mine and put 100 in my 2014 RTS SM6 once. It felt MUCH faster on the acceleration. LOL but the gas mileage did drop.

Pseudo butt dyno expectations.
Octane is like rungs on a ladder. You only need enough to keep the air/fuel charge from igniting prematurely from compression or a hot spot in the combustion chamber. Higher octane fuels only help if what you were using prior was knocking and the engine was running a retarded spark advance and (likely) more fuel from the injector to cool the cylinder and piston. That is why, under controlled tests, you can get more power. More spark advance and closer to stoichiometric ratio so all the fuel is put to use.

[sduskin]

I have no empirical evidence or dyno results.

As I said, it just "felt" more powerful. Of course it could have been wishful thinking. But give it a try. Empty your tank and fill it with high octane high quality fuel and try it for your self. It may be worth the extra $40 to give it a try.

Heck, it could even be placebo effect.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I have no empirical evidence or dyno results.

As I said, it just "felt" more powerful. Of course it could have been wishful thinking. But give it a try. Empty your tank and fill it with high octane high quality fuel and try it for your self. It may be worth the extra $40 to give it a try.

Heck, it could even be placebo effect.

Truth - will 100 Oct. hurt your Spyder ....NO .... will make it go faster .... NO, but I'm pretty sure NONE of this matters to you. You have your opinion and ... I ... will defend your right to keep it ..... But I ( and others ) have the right to dis-pute " HOOEY "...... ride safe - ride happy ... Mike

[Rattlebars]

Been running 87 w/ or w/o ethanol and get high 30's in town and 40+ on the super slab or long country roads with no stops. 2016 F3T.

[ARtraveler]

Filled up again today with 87 and 10% ethanol. We paid 166.9 per gallon. That is the lowest price I have paid in years.

[bikerbillone]

It's 87 for me, can't tell the difference.

[bmccaffrey]

It's what's available at time you need fuel.

[safecracker]

I have put over 70,000 miles on my 2011 RTS. 87 octane with 10% ethanol. I have no issues. Bruce

[Peter Aawen]

Filled up again today with 85 and 10% ethanol. We paid 166.9 per gallon. That is the lowest price I have paid in years.

That's WAAAYY better'n what we pay here!! In South Aust atm, our 91 RON ULP (which equates to about your 85 MON or whatever) costs us AUD $0.98 per LITRE, and there's almost 4 Litres in every US Gallon, so that brings our cost for equivalent volume up to about AUD $3.70 per US gallon or a bit more, altho that is BEFORE you take the value difference between our AUD & US dollars into account!! Still, we are paying a fair bit MORE for our fuel! Oh, and our 95/98 RON ULP is ethanol free (at least without additional 'on pump' signage) altho we can get E10 or the lower RON fuels with up to 10% of ethanol in them & there's even E85 available for those who are game!

Interestingly enough, while ethanol has a higher 'octane rating' than straight petroleum, which means that by adding 10% ethanol to 87 octane gas, it brings its 'octane rating' up close to 90; adding 10% to 91, it will bring its 'octane rating' up to the equivalent of about 94 RON; BUT, there is about 30% less energy in ethanol; so at a 10% mix, that means about a 3% increase in your fuel consumption if all other things remain equal.... which surely means that those using 10% ethanol fuel should hope it's more than 3% cheaper?!

[Rotax]

Has anyone tried using midgrade 89 in F3-S?
Rotax

[ChrisK]

My thoughts are primarily based on personal experience with one rumor included at no extra charge - Quick Trip Red Pump premium is the BOMB! We have 2 Spyders; a '13 & a '14. Both of which get QT Red whenever we fuel at 'Home Base' and anywhere QT is available. My primary concern with our 'fleet' is that you can't drive everything all the time and since we operate on the 'whim' theory and have a couple of 'older' cars for my pleasure. All perform flawlessly on the QT fuel and no matter how long they are parked (my girlfriend Goldie - '85 Buick) sits normally from mid October until April or May annually - she is a survivor and I will NOT allow her on the roads when there is the possibility of salt in any form. Our Spyders characteristically sit about the same time except for the occasional 'sunny day' when they get a breath of fresh air. Our 2 'dailies' are driven in a sort of a rotation with the SUV getting most drives to work and the 'fast little LaCrosse Super' gets driven when there is the 'need for speed'... ALL vehicles perform reliably and with NOTHING to indicate that we have a problem with fuel. Sure, the Spyders and the 2 newer (both '08s) have the benefit of computer controlled injection but sour fuel will mess up EVERYTHING.

The reason for the higher than necessary fuel cost? Shelf life could be a problem at our house with varying opinions as to how long ethanol laced fuel 'lasts'; I'm not willing to chance problems for .04 -.10 difference in price. NOTHING in our garages repairs cheaply and we have NEVER had any fuel related expense with our vehicles.

[Steve W.]

Octane alone can't do that ..... UNLESS you increase the compression of that engine .... google it ..... Mike

This is true, but there is a bit more to the story.

It is true that "octane" is NOT "power". In fact, the opposite is true. A gallon of high-octane fuel has a few thousand less BTUs than "regular" lower-octane fuel. The octane is only a measure of resistance to detonation, usually due to the higher heat of a higher-compression engine.

If, ... IF you have a high-compression engine that DOES require higher octane fuel, that is great. Most of the computer-controlled, fuel-injected engines in vehicles nowadays have some protection features that will detune the engine if knocking or pinging is detected due to lower-octane fuel. That detuning WILL lower the performance of the engine.

If that lower-performance engine is all you have ever experienced, then you add the proper fuel, which allows the engine to operate at full performance, you can certainly get the impression that "higher octane gave me better performance".

Just got our Spyder this past weekend, have not had to add any gas to it yet. Also, still getting used to the handling, have not had a chance to explore the limits of the engine performance, so I have absolutely nothing to compare to, so I don't know the difference.

.

[AY4B]

If only we could get no ethanol in more gas stations. I buy it when it is available. Buc-ee's has 92 no ethanol for around what they sell mid grade. Ethanol is what makes gas go bad quickly. If you have small engines like lets say a lawn mower. Use no ethanol and it won't clog up on you. The corn is what gums up your engine.

[ChicagoSpyder]

BRP recommends premium which in my parts is 93 octane 10% ethanol, I see many here using 87 octane with no issues, now I'm guessing that BRP has the engine mapped for 91-93 octane and at lower octanes the knock sensor kicks in and the ECU pulls timing, and then it seems there are no issues with anyone losing MPG's, makes me wonder if the ECU is really mapped for 87 and Bombi recommends premium to make up for any bad fuel that might be encounted.

[ChicagoSpyder]

If only we could get no ethanol in more gas stations. I buy it when it is available. Buc-ee's has 92 no ethanol for around what they sell mid grade. Ethanol is what makes gas go bad quickly. If you have small engines like lets say a lawn mower. Use no ethanol and it won't clog up on you. The corn is what gums up your engine.

I've been using Fitch Fuel catalyst in my jerry cans for the past 20 years, it keeps the ethanol fuel fresh for all my two stroke and four stroke tools and toys.

https://fitchfuelcatalyst.com/

[spyderider1]

Ethanol is what makes gas go bad quickly. If you have small engines like lets say a lawn mower. Use no ethanol and it won't clog up on you. The corn is what gums up your engine.

I lost track of the dollars spent and trips to the small engine shop before they convinced me. The smaller the engine the more likely there to be issues with plugged carburetors. I started buying pure gasoline in the quart cans and the little engines love it. I know it's way over-priced but I don't use a lot of it over the summer and it's still cheaper than the repair shop.