Headlights, keyed. Why?

[Revalden]

Why are the headlights always ON when key is on? Why do they stay on after key is turned off? What is "Load Shedding"? Is there a way to have key on and all circuits hot without the lights on? I did a "search" to no avail. Will Nanny bitch if I put a toggle in the circuit to the headlights? I want this so that I can work on circuits without having headlights draining battery while working on Spydie.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Why are the headlights always ON when key is on? Why do they stay on after key is turned off? What is "Load Shedding"? Is there a way to have key on and all circuits hot without the lights on? I did a "search" to no avail. Will Nanny bitch if I put a toggle in the circuit to the headlights? I want this so that I can work on circuits without having headlights draining battery while working on Spydie.

I have a 14 RT , and when I turn the key to ON … my headlights aren't ON until the engine actually fires ….. my tailites and fender lights will go ON when the key is turned to the first click ….. I don't know why yours should be different …. Mike

[h0gr1der]

Load shed is relay controlled power to stuff like lights and such. It minimizes power draw until the relay gets the run signal from the engine. This helps it to avoid the dreaded low voltage codes, which seem to be varied and many if the battery voltage falls to below 10.5 for any reason. The lights time out after a few seconds (15?) when the Spyder is shut down. From what I understand the Spyders have so many computers, some of which never really shut off, that there is a pretty significant battery drain even when the Spyder is switched off. Hence the recommendation for a good battery tender while the Spyder is parked for more than a few days.

[Revalden]

I have a 14 RT , and when I turn the key to ON … my headlights aren't ON until the engine actually fires ….. my tailites and fender lights will go ON when the key is turned to the first click ….. I don't know why yours should be different …. Mike

My headlights turn on as soon as the switch is turned on, which seems to lower available cranking voltage to 8.x volts as read by my Battery Moniter. It says battery voltage is around 12.3- 12.5 volts before cranking. This is with a new battery installed in Jan, 2020, running voltage is 14.5 volts +/- 0.2. So far, it has always started even in sub freezing temps. with battery maintainer connected. Maintainer is set at 2 amps. I might contact battery mfg and see what they say. Maybe have them send me their 450a battery. Thanks guys.

[RICZ]

It is a federal mandate that all motorcycles have headlights on at all times. BRP is complying with that mandate.

[Fearless]

Hi guys

We used to have headlights hard wired on motorcycles back in the 80's. That lasted a couple of years then the Govt decided it was not revelant anymore.

It seems that some manufacturers left them hard wired.

I know that in some cases headlights on actually made the bike very hard to see, like when the sun is low and behind the bike.

Any Aussies want to chip in, my information may be very rusty.

Cheers
Frank

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I would really appreciate if everyone is who able, to go out and turn your Key to the - ON position. …. Do NOT start the engine …. and report back what lights go on. ….. Thanks ,..... as I stated above - if my engine is not running my headlights are OFF ..… Mike

[Navydad]

I would really appreciate if everyone is who able, to go out and turn your Key to the - ON position. …. Do NOT start the engine …. and report back what lights go on. ….. Thanks ,..... as I stated above - if my engine is not running my headlights are OFF ..… Mike

2015 RT. Key on and headlights are off until the engine starts. They do stay on a bit after the RT is shut down.

[Oregonryder]

2019 RTL. Lights not on when key is turned to on, only running lights

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Why are the headlights always ON when key is on? Why do they stay on after key is turned off? What is "Load Shedding"? Is there a way to have key on and all circuits hot without the lights on? I did a "search" to no avail. Will Nanny bitch if I put a toggle in the circuit to the headlights? I want this so that I can work on circuits without having headlights draining battery while working on Spydie.

Did you buy the RT new or used? If used, then I'm guessing the previous owner jerry rigged the wiring so the lights do like you say. IF the lights are NOT off until the engine is started, AND do not turn OFF about 20 seconds after turning the ignition off, then something is HAYWIRE! And if your battery voltage really truly does drop to 8 volts when you hit the start button and the cluster does not blank out, then your engine computer is flakey!

[Revalden]

Did you buy the RT new or used? If used, then I'm guessing the previous owner jerry rigged the wiring so the lights do like you say. IF the lights are NOT off until the engine is started, AND do not turn OFF about 20 seconds after turning the ignition off, then something is HAYWIRE! And if your battery voltage really truly does drop to 8 volts when you hit the start button and the cluster does not blank out, then your engine computer is flakey!

I bought it used in Nov. of 2018. I played with it today and the headlights DO come on when key is turned to ON and while cranking. Hinky, not Flakey. Lights go out about 30 seconds after key off. With key on, push and hold Mode, turn key off, let go of Mode, radio stays on. I wonder if P.O. had the ECU Flashed. It has always ran GREAT, and now that I've put on the RLS Cat-Delete Resonator it Hauls My Big Ass Fast and sounds absolutely awesome. Perhaps whoever did the flash "Hinkyed" the 'puter. Is there a way to tell if it has been flashed?

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I bought it used in Nov. of 2018. I played with it today and the headlights DO come on when key is turned to ON and while cranking. Hinky, not Flakey. Lights go out about 30 seconds after key off. With key on, push and hold Mode, turn key off, let go of Mode, radio stays on. I wonder if P.O. had the ECU Flashed. It has always ran GREAT, and now that I've put on the RLS Cat-Delete Resonator it Hauls My Big Ass Fast and sounds absolutely awesome. Perhaps whoever did the flash "Hinkyed" the 'puter. Is there a way to tell if it has been flashed?

Sounds like it may have been flashed but I don't know how to tell if it has been. As for the radio staying on that is normal. It will shut off though when the battery voltage drops below 12.

[Richardv]

I bought it used in Nov. of 2018. I played with it today and the headlights DO come on when key is turned to ON and while cranking. Hinky, not Flakey. Lights go out about 30 seconds after key off. With key on, push and hold Mode, turn key off, let go of Mode, radio stays on. I wonder if P.O. had the ECU Flashed. It has always ran GREAT, and now that I've put on the RLS Cat-Delete Resonator it Hauls My Big Ass Fast and sounds absolutely awesome. Perhaps whoever did the flash "Hinkyed" the 'puter. Is there a way to tell if it has been flashed?

Are your hi-beam on?

[JayBros]

As Mike said, when I turn on the ignition key the small LED lights that are outboard of the headlights come on but the headlights do not illuminate until the engine is running. My operator's guide says the engine has to reach 800 RPM before the headlights automatically turn on and they remain on for about 20 seconds after the engine is stopped. High beam or low beam doesn't matter on U.S. bikes because the headlights are single filament bulbs/LEDs with mechanical shutters that cover half the light for low beam.

[whitedog43]

headlights come on after engine is started, fender lights and rear lights come on with switch, they shut off after a few seconds, however by habit i just recycle switch to turn off headlights when i shut it down. 2017 rt

[Revalden]

headlights come on after engine is started, fender lights and rear lights come on with switch, they shut off after a few seconds, however by habit i just recycle switch to turn off headlights when i shut it down. 2017 rt

I'll try the Recycle Key next time I start it to see if the headlights go off, then hit start to see if it keeps voltage up. But since I've got LEDs everywhere I don't think they'd draw enough amps away from the starter. I'll do a Amp Draw test, then, If that doesn't help I'll shove the old battery back in and see what gives.

[Motorcycledave]

Why are the headlights always ON when key is on? Why do they stay on after key is turned off? What is "Load Shedding"? Is there a way to have key on and all circuits hot without the lights on? I did a "search" to no avail. Will Nanny bitch if I put a toggle in the circuit to the headlights? I want this so that I can work on circuits without having headlights draining battery while working on Spydie.

I think it is a federal law now that the lights come on and stay on for safety... check with your local DOT office, the lights on my car and my wifes car come on and stay on when the key is turned to the on position.

[SpyderConvert]

My headlights turn on as soon as the switch is turned on, which seems to lower available cranking voltage to 8.x volts as read by my Battery Moniter. It says battery voltage is around 12.3- 12.5 volts before cranking. This is with a new battery installed in Jan, 2020, running voltage is 14.5 volts +/- 0.2. So far, it has always started even in sub freezing temps. with battery maintainer connected. Maintainer is set at 2 amps. I might contact battery mfg and see what they say. Maybe have them send me their 450a battery. Thanks guys.

Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that the instructions that came with my Battery Tender Jr. said that I should not start the vehicle with the Tender connected.

[PMK]

Key to on, headlights remain off. Engine started and running, headlights are on.

I do know the small fender lights and frunk interior lights will be on with switch on.

Never checked fog lights since I typically shut those down prior to engine shutdown.

[PMK]

I bought it used in Nov. of 2018. I played with it today and the headlights DO come on when key is turned to ON and while cranking. Hinky, not Flakey. Lights go out about 30 seconds after key off. With key on, push and hold Mode, turn key off, let go of Mode, radio stays on. I wonder if P.O. had the ECU Flashed. It has always ran GREAT, and now that I've put on the RLS Cat-Delete Resonator it Hauls My Big Ass Fast and sounds absolutely awesome. Perhaps whoever did the flash "Hinkyed" the 'puter. Is there a way to tell if it has been flashed?

At a guess, it has nothing to do with a possible reflash. More likely the lights shutdown via the main typical shutdown.

The lights incorrectly come on with the key and engine not running because of a failed relay.

[larryd]

I'm with PMK on your headlights on problem with key on...Someone with a schematic may be able to identify the controller that turns the headlights on after the bike is started and go from there...I'm thinking that controller or relay may have the contacts stuck together???? JUST A GUESS...My Spyder is flashed and the engine needs to be running for the headlights to come on...Keep us updated when you find the fix...larryd

[Fire34]

I would really appreciate if everyone is who able, to go out and turn your Key to the - ON position. …. Do NOT start the engine …. and report back what lights go on. ….. Thanks ,..... as I stated above - if my engine is not running my headlights are OFF ..… Mike

Just front fender lights and bothbackup and taillights, when i truned the key to the first position. 2013 RT Limited
Dave

[Beaudog]

My 2019 F3 limited does not turn on the headlights until you start the engine. My wife's 2018 RT is the same way except the small led lights next to the headlights do come on.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

At a guess, it has nothing to do with a possible reflash. More likely the lights shutdown via the main typical shutdown.

The lights incorrectly come on with the key and engine not running because of a failed relay.

If it was a stuck relay the lights would be on all the time. The power side of the headlights pass through the hi and lo headlamp relay contacts and is not keyed. The ground side of the lights is direct to ground. The power through the main headlight relay contact goes only to the power side of the coils of the hi and lo headlight relays. The ground side of the hi and lo relay coils go to the ECM. I really think the ECM is modified, either by flashing or internal failure. Why else would the lights come on with the key and turn off 20 seconds after the key is turned off? The ECM has a full time power source so it can keep the ground side of the headlight relays connected after the key is turned off.

I believe Revalden when he says the lights come on when the key is turned on and the motor has not yet been started. And as we have all said, that is not normal.

Also, there is no way he could crank the engine if in fact the battery voltage drops below 10.5 unless the ECM has been flashed, or has an internal failure.

Revalden, back to one of your original questions about the load shedding relay. That relay controls power to the hand grips and suspension compressor. The ground side of the relay coil goes to the cluster so the relay does not activate until the bike is running. The load shedding relay and headlight relays are not connected in any manner.

[SpyderCruiser]

If it was a stuck relay the lights would be on all the time. The power side of the headlights pass through the hi and lo headlamp relay contacts and is not keyed. The ground side of the lights is direct to ground. The power through the main headlight relay contact goes only to the power side of the coils of the hi and lo headlight relays. The ground side of the hi and lo relay coils go to the ECM. I really think the ECM is modified, either by flashing or internal failure. Why else would the lights come on with the key and turn off 20 seconds after the key is turned off? The ECM has a full time power source so it can keep the ground side of the headlight relays connected after the key is turned off.

I believe Revalden when he says the lights come on when the key is turned on and the motor has not yet been started. And as we have all said, that is not normal.

Also, there is no way he could crank the engine if in fact the battery voltage drops below 10.5 unless the ECM has been flashed, or has an internal failure.

Revalden, back to one of your original questions about the load shedding relay. That relay controls power to the hand grips and suspension compressor. The ground side of the relay coil goes to the cluster so the relay does not activate until the bike is running. The load shedding relay and headlight relays are not connected in any manner.

I would have to look at the schematic again, been a while. But I thought the headlights are also powered by the load shedding relay and another relay, so 2 relays for the headlights to work. So 1 could be stuck but would go off with the load shedding relay.