Performance Exhaust and Intake with Dyno Runs

[Highwayman2013]

https://youtu.be/D3hbU3_4uVI

[hypurone]

Nice!

[BajaRon]

Those are respectable numbers. I am frankly surprised.

[MaxRotax]

Finally some real numbers. Thank you

[2dogs]

Those are respectable numbers. I am frankly surprised.

Yea, you think? Didn't know all that was hidden behind just a muffler and an intake.

[BajaRon]

Yea, you think? Didn't know all that was hidden behind just a muffler and an intake.

Typically, with modern, computer controlled engines, you don't get any significant improvement from improving intake/exhaust flow without a 'Tune' to take advantage of these changes. However, the numbers put up on the demo are meaningful. I did not spend the time to try and see what the power curve differences were. That is really as important as the numbers given. Where that power resides and over what RPM span it lasts can be even more important than the total gain achieved.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

When this company's Ad appeared on the Forum … I was skeptical and said so …. I was glad to see that Dyno results were published …. however I question the Torgue numbers … " 542 ft. lbs. " ….. @ 81 HP …. am I the only one who noticed that ???? …. and with what Ron said about the computer ….. How did they get around " stock settings " …… annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd testing in a tight residential area …. not very professional - IMHO …… just my thoughts …. " what are yours " …. Mike

[Stridersr7]

I would like to see number with the flash also

https://www.racingpowersports.com/dy...ance-tune.html

[PMK]

Having tested race bikes on dynos in the past, sometimes getting test results that are honestly comparable from one setup to the next can be a challenge. Saying that, it means that many things can effect how the engine performs, even between the time taken to accomplish the mods. The dyno runs we did often were based on corrected horsower.

I am not suggesting anything contrary to them making increased power. Merely explaining a few things I noticed that were not discussed.

If it were me doing those dyno runs, I would have disconnected the battery to reset all the engine parameters to baseline. Here’s why. The Ryker from use, like a Spyder or modern car / truck learns as it is driven, and is constantly adjusting the engine parameters as needed.

The all stock run, was accomplished with a learned set of engine parameters, not the baseline settings.

The two runs with the exhaust swap, were done on engine parameters in the computers, skewed towards a stock exhaust setup and stock intake.

The runs accomplished with the exhaust and intake, were essentially skewed towards the stock setup in the computer.

Had the computer been reset to baseline for each set of mods, and the Ryker allowed a few minutes, timed at say 15 minutes at a certain series of rpm and throttle settings, to learn a bit, and the same parameters accomplished for each setup prior to the dyno run, the comparison would be better. Would it be different, maybe, maybe not.

The numbers I was noticing was the stock bike was considerably leaner than the mod runs in regards to AFR. The two mod runs AFR were not at best power, but much closer.

Also, it was odd to see all three setup had a wavy top end curve vs a smooth curve that fell off. The test rider even made notice of it with the final runs.

I was trying to compare the torque numbers also. Forget what they were exactly, but the range they utilized, I was not familiar with and unable to know if the differences were worthy or not.

The exhaust sounded great, having seen the intake before, still consider it ricer and not a fan.

Based on the stock HP, a stock Ryker is 616 pounds. Add fuel, oils, and a rider with gear and that number increase to say 900 as a safe standard. So about 13 lbs / hp.

With 75 hp the number drops to 12 lbs / hp.

At 86 hp, the performance reaches about 10 1/2 lbs / hp.

For comparison, a Spyder RT with a stock engine of claimed 115hp, and i will use 100 hp to be conservative. Claimed dry weight is just over 1000 lbs. using the same 284 lbs as I did on the Ryker for fluids, rider, gear. These are the numbers fir a stock 2014 to 2019 Spyder RT series.

If the Spyder stock produces the 115 claimed horsepower (which is likely crankshaft hp) the a 1284 pound loaded Spyder runs 11.16 lbs / hp.
Assuming the Spyder produces only 100 hp at the rear wheel, that gives the Spyder 12.84 lbs / hp.
Dropping the Spyder to 90 hp at the rear wheel, sets the Spyder at 14.26 lbs / hp.

Merely comparing to illustrate possibilities. Not saying a word for or against modifying your Ryker.

[Highwayman2013]

When this company's Ad appeared on the Forum … I was skeptical and said so …. I was glad to see that Dyno results were published …. however I question the Torgue numbers … " 542 ft. lbs. " ….. @ 81 HP …. am I the only one who noticed that ???? …. and with what Ron said about the computer ….. How did they get around " stock settings " …… annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd testing in a tight residential area …. not very professional - IMHO …… just my thoughts …. " what are yours " …. Mike

We have numbers now so people can determine if it's worth buying these things for their Ryker. The torque is just a decimal off, no biggie.

[PinkRosePetal]

Typically, with modern, computer controlled engines, you don't get any significant improvement from improving intake/exhaust flow without a 'Tune' to take advantage of these changes. However, the numbers put up on the demo are meaningful. I did not spend the time to try and see what the power curve differences were. That is really as important as the numbers given. Where that power resides and over what RPM span it lasts can be even more important than the total gain achieved.

The torque curves were very impressive, a marked gain throughout the whole range and particularly good through the lower and mid range.
It's a pity about the noise level though. As usual, you don't get anything for nothing - always a compromise. Unfortunately.

[Highwayman2013]

The torque curves were very impressive, a marked gain throughout the whole range and particularly good through the lower and mid range.
It's a pity about the noise level though. As usual, you don't get anything for nothing - always a compromise. Unfortunately.

I would have liked to see a pull with the silencer in the muffler tip.

[PMK]

I would have liked to see a pull with the silencer in the muffler tip.

Funny you mention that. When I was watching the video, at one run I thought the exhaust had a second extension on it. Was thinking a deflector so not to heat the tire, but maybe it was a silencer run.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

We have numbers now so people can determine if it's worth buying these things for their Ryker. The torque is just a decimal off, no biggie.

So the Dyno doesn't know where the decimal is supposed to go ???? ……… Really, " that's no biggie " ………. and I've never seen a Dyno screen read-out with such erratic lines …………………...jmho ….. Mike

[308gunner]

I would like to see them do a Dyno run with a F3 sport with an ECU tune and cat delete...I'm sure many others here would like to see that As well.

[Stridersr7]

I want to see one with the filter. Plugs. Exhaust. And the power vision 3 flash

[BajaRon]

Dyno runs can be tricky, expensive and very time consuming. And, if you don't do it right. You get garbage data. There is a lot more to it than just strapping your machine over the drive rollers and cranking the throttle. Getting Apples to Apples results takes a great deal of care and skill. Not to mention very expensive equipment.

[PMK]

Dyno runs can be tricky, expensive and very time consuming. And, if you don't do it right. You get garbage data. There is a lot more to it than just strapping your machine over the drive rollers and cranking the throttle. Getting Apples to Apples results takes a great deal of care and skill. Not to mention very expensive equipment.

Agree. Dynos are cool to see numbers, trends and differences from making changes when those working the equipment and machine know how to be consistent.

As you mentioned, very easy to get garbage data.

But even more so, the dyno can give great numbers, but how it performs when ridden is what counts.

[troop]

I'd like a DJ tuner to have a Spyder capable dyno just to do a custom fuel map on my PV3. Numbers will be what they are as no two dyno's will ever be the same taking all variables into account.

[PMK]

I'd like a DJ tuner to have a Spyder capable dyno just to do a custom fuel map on my PV3. Numbers will be what they are as no two dyno's will ever be the same taking all variables into account.

Using an eddy current dyno like they used in the video is difficult to use for accurate engine tuning. The eddy current dynos typically do full throttle pulls. There is a lot of info to utilize if you know how. Typically though, these dynos are better at showing peak powers and shape of the power / torque curve.

The honest way to tune is often called a rolling road dyno. These setups along with engine monitoring, allow a true multi dimensional mapping that coordinates RPM, MAP, AFR, Timing, Injector Profiles and more. Because of cost of the equipment or cost of dyno time, most people with tuning capability will test, then download data, make changes at focus points and test more. This is done in a way to not only optimize what is seen on the computer after each download, but also validates true driveability.

[troop]

Fortunately, I bought my PV3 from Jamie Long at Fuel Moto. Come spring he wants me to ride up to his shop (100 miles away), so he can ride/tweak the Spyder. I'm confident he'll make some improvements. He's tuned several of my past bikes

[PMK]

Fortunately, I bought my PV3 from Jamie Long at Fuel Moto. Come spring he wants me to ride up to his shop (100 miles away), so he can ride/tweak the Spyder. I'm confident he'll make some improvements. He's tuned several of my past bikes

He will dyno tune on a rolling road dyno, dyno tune on an eddy current dyno, or simply monitor AFR and ride the bike?

[troop]

He will dyno tune on a rolling road dyno, dyno tune on an eddy current dyno, or simply monitor AFR and ride the bike?

Ride, monitor and tweak. He doesn't have a Spyder capable dyno.

[Sticky]

Great to finally have Dyno numbers and proven results. That is the best way to handle the naysayers who said the intake won't do anything.

Keep it up! Want to see what you get out of it with a tune on top.

[krakum1967]

I agree with PMK, the trike should have had a battery reset when they did the changes and prior to the dyno. And I agree with all of the other steps he outlined....

I also see huge advantages to the way that we flash ECU's and how we are able to basically copy tunes from machine to machine. Why I am getting the one done on the RS-S. I learned from past flash work, they do so much more than the tune, they can correct poorly set rev limiters, and to me the most significant change is this. When the person flashed my Yamaha FZ09 two years ago, he outlined that on stock ECU tunes, hp is actually changed from gear to gear. On production street machines it is not uncommon to restict HP in the top gear for instance. So the FZ09 was rated or ranked at 115 HP stock, in actuality in 6th gear, the motor was only pushing 90 HP in 6th gear or limited to that HP level by each gear basically having its own tune. I was told all imported go through this, and all modern machines with the Keihin type ECU tunes the power ratings to each gear. I asked the people dealing with the monster tunes, and was told this is also the case on the Can Am, and they tune the HP to be the same in each gear which also removes these unspoken governors that exist on our machines. When my FZ09 was flashed, I had 135 HP PER GEAR, and I could lift the front wheel in 6 witht he twist of a wrist even at 80 mph...I sold the bike, it scared me after that, and I had my heart attack on the bike (not speed related).

My other point is I find that Dyno tuning is more of a justifiable expense when you are trying to get the most out of a carbureted machine. Modern ECU based machines such as the Can Am "learn" not only the performance standards, but also "learn" how the rider uses the machines and adjusts the tunes accordingly, in other words if you ride with a hotter hand, you are going to get more performance out of the stock ECU because it has "learned" the speed or performance parameters. SO why dyno tune it unless you are establishing a flash? The need for Dyno tuning honestly went the way of the Carburetor, and good riddance to them both.

With the systems like we have, handle the three basics, Intake, Exhaust, and a good Power Commander (with autotune if you can get it), or Power Vision and you really never have to worry about Dynos or paying for expensive dyno runs that only provide you with data you can get by taking your machine to your local drag strip, and checking it by the seat of your ass. The bike will learn to adapt to the changes once you do a battery reset, and make sure you use the correct maps on your tuner, or set up the autotune.