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  1. #26
    Very Active Member RICZ's Avatar
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    If I were to buy a used RT swaybar and metal links, would that be a good way to go for better handling?
    Ours is a red, black and chrome 2017 F3 Limited. Bought new in 2/2019. The avatar is my first bike back in 1952, a Simplex Servi-Cycle. Photo taken at the Barber Museum.

  2. #27
    Member tntnj's Avatar
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    I put my F3 on plastic ramps then I jacked the bike up and put 2 4x4x6 blocks under both wheels. I took out all the bolts that needed to be removed , when the bar was ready to take out I raised the bike enough to take the bar out and install the new Baja Ron Sway Bar . Once the bar was in I lowered the bike down on the blocks and ramps. I tightened everything up and took a ride. WHAT A DIFFERENCE. The left side of the bike used to dip down when I made a right turn. The new bar handles the turns without the front end feeling it was dipping down. The bike feels more stable and the turns felt a lot more stable. You will love it. It took me an hour from start to finish.
    Last edited by tntnj; 01-21-2020 at 05:02 PM. Reason: added baja Ron Sway Bar

  3. #28
    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICZ View Post
    If I were to buy a used RT swaybar and metal links, would that be a good way to go for better handling?
    The metal links will definitely be an improvement over the stock 'placcy' links, and while a used RT bar is likely to be an improvement over the OE bar, it's sorta like comparing chalk & cheese..... well, that is if the OE F3 bar is pretty cheap chalk, the RT bar is a fresh camembert (a bit chalky but firm on the outside, only it's a little runny on the inside!) and the BajaRon Bar is a quality Parmesan, tasty & hard all the way thru!

    But going the used RT bar way WILL see an improvement!
    2013 RT Ltd

  4. #29
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICZ View Post
    I don't think you understood my question. Here's what I need to know.....
    + Is the OEM F3 swaybar beefier (stronger, heavier) than the OEM RT swaybar?
    + If it is, will replacing the OEM plastic links with metal links (keeping the OEM swaybar) offer a noticeable improvement in the handling?
    All very good questions. Here is a general idea of what you can expect. There are variables like weight loading and riding style. The heavier you are loaded and or the more spirited you ride, the more you will appreciate an upgraded sway bar. But you don't have to ride like a wild person or be loaded to the gills to love the bar either.

    The plastic links will stretch on one side and compress on the other while turning. The greater the lean, the more of this effect you will get. This action absorbs some of the energy transfer that the sway bar is trying to accomplish. I do not know of another vehicle on the planet that uses a non-rigid sway bar link. Though to BRP's credit. In most cases, on a stock sway bar, these plastic links do seem to hold up well enough. Replacing these links with a rigid part allows the sway bar to operate at peak efficiency and most notice an improvement in handling. But the main reason I require that my link set be installed with every bar kit is that my bars tend to break the OEM BRP links. So my links not only make the bar more efficient, they make it safe. And we can all get behind that.

    One interesting note about this is that the parts list for the new 2020 RT shows that BRP is still using the same plastic link set as every other Spyder ever made.

    The RT is a heavier vehicle than the F3. Sits higher, has more storage/weight capacity, and commonly has a passenger and maybe even a trailer in tow. All of which makes it want to lean and dive more than the f3. So, the need is greater and it rightly comes with a heavier sway bar than the F3. Putting the stock RT bar on an F3 will give you a fair amount of improvement. However, my F3 sway bar is significantly stronger than the OEM RT bar. Many F3 riders have gone from the stock RT bar (with or without rigid links) to my F3 bar kit. In every case that has been reported back to me (and I do get a great deal of feedback). Owners have been impressed with the improvement over the stock RT bar.

    Though I have never heard it put quite this way. The appraisal by Peter Aawen is accurate.

    The fact is, the newer Spyders handle pretty well right out of the box. Many tell me that they are happy with the way their F3 or RT handles. And how they see no need to install an upgraded sway bar. When people tell me this, I always ask them; 'Have you ridden an F3 or RT with my sway bar kit installed?'. In every case, they tell me, 'No.'

    It is not uncommon for a potential customer to call saying that they don't think they need my bar kit. But that they've read or heard so much about it. Or that their friends are telling them that they need it, that they are going to finally jump in and get one. Some say; 'Against my better judgement.' I always tell these customers the same thing. 'If you don't want to do this, don't! It's your ride. Don't let others tell you how to do your thing.' But they almost always buy the bar kit anyway. And it's like clockwork! I get a call or and email or see a post here where they say something like; 'I wish I'd done this a long time ago. Didn't know what I was missing.'

    I understand that all of this sounds self serving. That's why I don't always jump in on these conversations. Those who have installed my bar kit are honest and accurate about the statements they make so I don't feel the need. To me, it's just a great deal of fun to have stumbled upon something that makes so many people so happy. I don't have to hype or push. Just lay out the facts and let the customer decide. To me, that's just the way it should be.

    I enjoy riding. And I love my Spyder. I know most of you feel the same way or you wouldn't be here. That's what it is all about.
    Last edited by BajaRon; 01-23-2020 at 10:19 AM.
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  5. #30
    Very Active Member RICZ's Avatar
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    BajaRon....Thanks for that very informative reply. Now, I am convinced (persuaded?) that a bar kit is the way to go. First, I want to get more experience under my belt, so I really can feel the improvement. I have only ridden my F3L 700 miles - the most being before a badly needed hip replacement, so consequently, my climb up the learning curve was slow and painful. Because of the annual NW Rain Festival, I have had very few opportunities to ride. After the dust settled from the hip operation, I am now way up the learning curve, but not where I want to be when I switch sway bars. Or am fooling myself?
    Ours is a red, black and chrome 2017 F3 Limited. Bought new in 2/2019. The avatar is my first bike back in 1952, a Simplex Servi-Cycle. Photo taken at the Barber Museum.

  6. #31
    Very Active Member Wildrice's Avatar
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    Default Sway Bar installation requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Ex-Rocket View Post
    When I had my 2015 RTS, I changed out the swaybar, I had to lift the Spyder pretty high in order to get the old swaybar out and get the new bar in. So just getting your Spyder rolled up on some car ramps is not high enough. Maybe I'm wrong about the F3 but I think you also have to get the F3 pretty high to get the swaybar out and the new one in. I have not done the swaybar mod to my F3 Limited so I'm not sure. But I'm thinking I had my RTS about 18 inches to 2 feet high when I replaced the swaybar. Maybe others who have done the swap on the F3 will chime in.
    You are correct on the height--I can't imagine installing the sway bar without a least 18" of floor clearance on the F3 series.

  7. #32
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICZ View Post
    BajaRon....Thanks for that very informative reply. Now, I am convinced (persuaded?) that a bar kit is the way to go. First, I want to get more experience under my belt, so I really can feel the improvement. I have only ridden my F3L 700 miles - the most being before a badly needed hip replacement, so consequently, my climb up the learning curve was slow and painful. Because of the annual NW Rain Festival, I have had very few opportunities to ride. After the dust settled from the hip operation, I am now way up the learning curve, but not where I want to be when I switch sway bars. Or am fooling myself?
    I don't think you are 'Fooling Yourself'. I think you are taking a reasoned approach to your situation. It is true that the more experience you have with your Spyder, the more you are likely to appreciate the improvement. My brother-in-law bought an F3 in 2016. He knew about my sway bar kits but he didn't say anything and neither did I. After he had it 1 year he called and asked if he could get a bar kit for it. Which, of course, I sent him one. Then when I visited later that month for Thanksgiving, he wanted me to install it for him! Wow! Free bar kit and I had to install it too! Well, that's a BIL for you! (hes a great guy)

    The point being, I asked him why all of a sudden he was so hot to get a sway bar kit? He'd told me how impressed he was with his new Spyder, that he'd heard stories about how twitchy and bad handling they were, but he found his F3 to be great! He said all of that was true and he had not changed his mind. But that when he got his last service at the dealership he mentioned that he knew 'BajaRon' to the service writer. And the guy went on and on about how his customers really liked the BajaRon sway bar. So, even though he had no issues with the way his F3 handled, he thought he'd give it a try.

    So, me, my brothers, and the other BIL's there for Thanksgiving, went out to the garage while the ladies were putting the finishing touches on our upcoming feast, and installed the bar kit for him. While I laid under his Spyder, my professional mechanic brother would occasionally shake the instruction sheet (Ala, Rush Limbaugh), and ask; 'Do you want me to read the instructions to you?'. And everyone would laugh! Finally, the BIL who's Spyder we were working on asked; 'Didn't you write these instructions Ron?' And that brought the house down.

    OK, get to the point Ron... and here is the long belated point. My BIL has since told me that he frankly didn't expect to notice much difference with the sway bar installed. But he was blown away by how much better it made his Spyder handle. I don't know that he would have noticed that much difference if he'd gotten the bar kit when he first started riding his F3.

    So, I think you are doing the exact right thing by waiting.
    Last edited by BajaRon; 01-24-2020 at 12:10 AM.
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  8. #33
    Very Active Member RICZ's Avatar
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    Ron....The wife and I got a hearty laugh out of that tale. Thanks for the reassurance that I'm on the right track. Now I can't wait for the sun to make an appearance so I can get out and climb another rung or two up the learning curve. We all make trade-offs about where we live and the winter rains are what keeps the NW lush and green. Our summers can be sunny and dry and we enjoy the varied scenery this area has to offer. There I go, getting philosophical about putting up with the rain.
    Note to Californians: I'm lying, it rains all the time - not a dry day all year.
    Ours is a red, black and chrome 2017 F3 Limited. Bought new in 2/2019. The avatar is my first bike back in 1952, a Simplex Servi-Cycle. Photo taken at the Barber Museum.

  9. #34
    Very Active Member bmccaffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaRon View Post
    I don't think you are 'Fooling Yourself'. I think you are taking a reasoned approach to your situation. It is true that the more experience you have with your Spyder, the more you are likely to appreciate the improvement. My brother-in-law bought an F3 in 2016. He knew about my sway bar kits but he didn't say anything and neither did I. After he had it 1 year he called and asked if he could get a bar kit for it. Which, of course, I sent him one. Then when I visited a later that month for Thanksgiving, he wanted me to install it for him! Wow! Free bar kit and I had to install it too! Well, that's a BIL for you! (hes a great guy)

    The point being, I asked him why all of a sudden he was so hot to get a sway bar kit? He'd told me how impressed he was with his new Spyder, that he'd heard stories about how twitchy and bad handling they were, but he found his F3 to be great! He said all of that was true and he had not changed his mind. But that when he got his last service at the dealership he mentioned that he knew 'BajaRon' to the service writer. And the guy went on and on about how his customers really liked the BajaRon sway bar. So, even though he had no issues with the way his F3 handled, he thought he'd give it a try.

    So, me, my brothers, and the other BIL's there for Thanksgiving, went out to the garage while the ladies were putting the finishing touches on our upcoming feast, and installed the bar kit for him. While I laid under his Spyder, my professional mechanic brother would occasionally shake the instruction sheet (Ala, Rush Limbaugh), and ask; 'Do you want me to read the instructions to you?'. And everyone would laugh! Finally, the BIL who's Spyder we were working on asked; 'Didn't you right these instructions Ron?' And that brought the house down.

    OK, get to the point Ron... and here is the long belated point. My BIL has since told me that he frankly didn't expect to notice much difference with the sway bar installed. But he was blown away by how much better it made his Spyder handle. I don't know that he would have noticed that much difference if he'd gotten the bar kit when he first started riding his F3.

    So, I think you are doing the exact right thing by waiting.
    Ron
    I checked my Ancestry site. i think we're related lol

  10. #35
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    One question...

    Would rising the Spyder front wheels to 45cm/17.7in of height (rear wheel on the floor) be enough to swap the bars?

  11. #36
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICZ View Post
    I don't think you understood my question. Here's what I need to know.....
    + Is the OEM F3 swaybar beefier (stronger, heavier) than the OEM RT swaybar?
    + If it is, will replacing the OEM plastic links with metal links (keeping the OEM swaybar) offer a noticeable improvement in the handling?
    I know this may be a bit redundant. But I thought I'd try to answer this question in a more straight forward way. I hope this helps someone.

    There is a lot of confusing information out there. Makes it hard to know which way to go. It is a shame since the facts are easily discovered.

    The OEM RT bar is the stiffest OEM bar of any model Spyder, in its respective model year. All 2010-2012 RT's had the same OEM Factory sway bar. All 2013-2019 RT's, regardless of year or model, come from the factory with the same OEM sway bar.

    All F3's, regardless of year or model, have the same OEM Factory sway bar. The OEM F3 bar is lighter duty than the OEM RT Sway bar. There is a lot more to how a vehicle handles than just the sway bar. The F3 handles better than the RT, even though it has a lighter sway bar, for the following reasons;

    1- The F3 is lighter than the RT
    2- The F3 has a lower center of gravity than the RT

    Being lighter and having a lower center of gravity, the F3 generates less centrifugal force in turns. This means a lighter, or less stiff sway bar can have the same or better effect than a heavier sway bar on a heavier and or higher center of gravity vehicle.

    This is how the sway bars break out in degrees of stiffness.
    1- Lightest Sway Bar - OEM F3
    2- Heavier Sway Bar - OEM RT
    3- Heavier Sway Bar - BajaRon F3 Bar Kit
    4- Heaviest Sway Bar - BajaRon RT Bar Kit

    This is NOT to say that if you want the heaviest sway bar, you should put a BajaRon RT bar kit on your F3. A sway bar can be too stiff. A too stiff sway bar can be dangerous. Please! DO NOT put a BajaRon RT Sway Bar on anything but an RT model. It's not safe and you probably won't be happy with the way it rides
    Last edited by BajaRon; 02-04-2020 at 06:52 PM.
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  12. #37
    Very Active Member RICZ's Avatar
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    Ron....Many, many thanks for that very informative reply. It leaves me with one question though....
    When one replaces their RT's swaybar with yours, the original becomes surplus. Will a takeoff from a 1330 RT fit an F3L? Being a product of the Great Depression and WWII, I spend very hard. I was thinking that if I feel the need for a stronger swaybar - but not the strongest - I'd purchase your metal links and buy a castoff RT swaybar - if it will fit. Will it?
    Ours is a red, black and chrome 2017 F3 Limited. Bought new in 2/2019. The avatar is my first bike back in 1952, a Simplex Servi-Cycle. Photo taken at the Barber Museum.

  13. #38
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICZ View Post
    Ron....Many, many thanks for that very informative reply. It leaves me with one question though....
    When one replaces their RT's swaybar with yours, the original becomes surplus. Will a takeoff from a 1330 RT fit an F3L? Being a product of the Great Depression and WWII, I spend very hard. I was thinking that if I feel the need for a stronger swaybar - but not the strongest - I'd purchase your metal links and buy a castoff RT swaybar - if it will fit. Will it?
    The OEM RT sway bar will fit and work on an F3. It will not give the same results as the BajaRon sway bar kit for the F3. But it will give you some improvement.
    Last edited by BajaRon; 02-04-2020 at 08:18 PM.
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  14. #39
    Very Active Member RICZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaRon View Post
    The OEM RT sway bar will fit and work on an F3. It will not give the same results as the BajaRon sway bar kit for the F3. But it will give you some improvement.
    Ron....I'm well into my 80s and although I have a heavy right hand, I'm not quite the hot rodder I used to be. Being a Spyder newbie, it will be a while before I can determine exactly what I need. If it's just a bit more stiffness, I'm thinking the combination of your metal links and a takeoff RT sway bar might do the job for the likes of me.
    Ours is a red, black and chrome 2017 F3 Limited. Bought new in 2/2019. The avatar is my first bike back in 1952, a Simplex Servi-Cycle. Photo taken at the Barber Museum.

  15. #40
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    Hi.

    I've seen this ramps with jacks that lift the wheels up to 45cm/17.7in of height, would this be enough to swap the bars for a F3-S?

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