Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 109
  1. #1
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    WI
    Posts
    59
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default Laser Schmaser ?

    I have a 2010 RT with 17,000 M.

    I am prepared to be corrected, so don't hold back.
    As I understand it, the Spyder front end alignment is for "toe in" only. There is no adjustment for caster or camber. Correct ?
    If this is correct, I do not understand the big deal about a laser front end alignment.
    Does this just use a laser measuring device in lieu of a ruler ?
    If this is the case, I would really question the necessity of a laser.
    If "toe in" specs are available it would seem to me that it could be done with a ruler.
    I am not a Luddite, but I don't like being snookered either.
    I have heard the advertisements for high tech laser back surgery. I understand that the only difference is that the incision is made with a laser instead of a scalpel.
    It sounds impressive though.

  2. #2
    Very Active Member EdMat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Clinton, MS
    Posts
    1,545
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    I think you are overlooking the part where it is all in relation to the rear wheel.
    2019 RT Limited , Phoenix Orange

  3. #3
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Central VERMONT
    Posts
    20,271
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Correct no caster or camber …. but you forgot " Toe - out " ….. Yes it can be done manually, but a bit difficult …. If your " toe " is way off, the tire wear will be affected … sometimes minor - sometimes Major …. when a bad wear pattern starts - it ruins the tires, and pretty much correcting alignment won't save the tires. …. It is well reported here that the OEM - BRP alignment is usually OFF, my 2011 RSS wore evenly, but that was the exception ….. good luck …. Mike …. PS, I've had mine re-checked a few times and the alignment was still good.

  4. #4
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    SoFlo
    Posts
    4,300
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Sort of. Castor is not adjustable. Camber technically is not adjustable. Toe is adjustable.

    I believe toe specs are published in the manuals, however they are expressed in degrees, not a linear dimension.

    You certainly can align the wheels without a laser setup. Be aware though you may need to null the steering electronics to prevent other problems.

  5. #5
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    300
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Number one; lasers are used because it's very difficult to get a measurement across the Spyder, physically, that is. The super-duper laser alignment attempts to get the chassis and all three wheels kinda neutrally aligned. Probably impossible unless you're very lucky and your rear wheel lines up with the chassis just as the belt runs true on the sprockets - not very likely. It sounds good but as soon as you drive along a road with a camber (most roads) the bike runs down the camber and you steer to counter that so the whole kaboosh runs out of line anyway.

    However, plenty of Spyders appear to have poorly aligned front wheels in relation to toe-in so getting that sorted is a good thing. Since you've got a 2010RT, the steering tie-rods are very flimsy and flex under cornering loads, if you have the wherewithal to address that, you'll find your steering and general handling is much improved. They also flex on the 1330 but they're a little better but the front suspension is rubber bushed anyway so is a bit wooly.

    3mm toe-in measured at the wheel rim isn't a bad place to start.
    Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
    Rule#1: Refer to rule #2.

  6. #6
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    WI
    Posts
    59
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Thanks to all for good input and for not beating me up.

    PinkRosePetal,

    3mm toe-in measured at the wheel rim isn't a bad place to start.
    Front edge of rim to edge of rim 3mm narrower than rear edge of rim to edge of rim and squared with centerline of rear rim ?

    I live by your rule # 1 and have used that line for most of my life.

  7. #7
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    300
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 12tree View Post

    PinkRosePetal,

    3mm toe-in measured at the wheel rim isn't a bad place to start.
    Front edge of rim to edge of rim 3mm narrower than rear edge of rim to edge of rim and squared with centerline of rear rim ?
    Yup, 3mm narrower at the front of the wheel rim compared to the rear. You have 12" wheels so that gives you a tad more toe than it would on a 1330 with 13" rims. The front suspension has a certain amount of bump steer so your weight and the load in the front trunk will have a wee effect on the actual toe setting once you're riding.

    I live by your rule # 1 and have used that line for most of my life.
    Good call, you might find you need it here too...
    Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
    Rule#1: Refer to rule #2.

  8. #8
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Oakley Utah
    Posts
    8,126
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 12tree View Post
    I have a 2010 RT with 17,000 M. I am prepared to be corrected, so don't hold back.

    As I understand it, the Spyder front end alignment is for "toe in" only. There is no adjustment for caster or camber. Correct? CORRECT
    If this is correct, I do not understand the big deal about a laser front end alignment; does this just use a laser measuring device in lieu of a ruler? YES
    If this is the case, I would really question the necessity of a laser.
    Laser alignment is not necessary, but some people prefer having someone knowledgeable align their Spyder and those folks use a laser assisted system.
    2014 RTL Platinum


  9. #9
    Very Active Member Grandpot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Fort Mill, SC
    Posts
    1,951
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    The biggest benefit of the laser is it projects the position of the toe-in well past the front and rear of the Spyder. This will magnify the error and therefore allow you to make a more accurate adjustment.
    2011 RTS (Sold to a very nice lady)
    1998 Honda Valkyrie
    2006 Mustang GT. Varooooom!
    US Navy Veteran
    SC Law Enforcement Boat Captain
    CNC Machine Service Technician
    President: Rolling Thunder SC1
    Member: Disabled American Veterans, Rock Hill, SC
    Member: American Legion
    Experience is recognizing the same mistake every time you make it!

  10. #10
    Very Active Member JayBros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Mint Hill, NC
    Posts
    5,851
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    If laser alignment systems, for both cages and Spyders, weren't more accurate than older systems dealers and independents wouldn't invest the considerable bucks they cost. The real key is the knowledge and meticulousness of the operator of the system.
    Artillery lends dignity to what would
    otherwise be a vulgar brawl.
    ******************************
    Cognac 2014 RT-S

  11. #11
    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Australia; Sth Aust, Adelaide Hills
    Posts
    9,515
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PinkRosePetal View Post
    Yup, 3mm narrower at the front of the wheel rim compared to the rear. You have 12" wheels so that gives you a tad more toe than it would on a 1330 with 13" rims. ......
    Quote Originally Posted by PinkRosePetal View Post
    Yup, 3mm narrower at the front of the wheel rim compared to the rear. You have 14" wheels so that gives you a tad more toe than it would on a 1330 with 15" rims. .........

    Probably best to try & get the details right Fixed it for you (in bold) above!
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 12-23-2019 at 05:49 PM.
    2013 RT Ltd Pearl White

    Ryde More, Worry Less!

  12. #12
    Very Active Member Lew L's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    forrest above Reno, Nv
    Posts
    3,621
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Squared Away did a laser alignment on my 2014 RTS a few months after we purchased it. Its been great, I can ride the crown of a 2 lane road ( plenty of those here in No. Nevada ) with my hands off the bars no pulling left or right. Hands rest on the bars when not turning . A laser alignment, done properly ( by Joe and Ann) is a wonderful ( and probably necessary) addition to most new s. Me doing this with straight edges and a tape measure surely would not be as accurate. ( and quit calling me surely) [ a movie punch line----- What movie?????? ]

    Lew L
    Kaos----- Gone but not forgotten.

    2014 RTS in Circuit Yellow, farkle-ing addiction down to once every few months. ECU FLASH IS GREAT.
    2014 RTS , Circuit Yellow

  13. #13
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    WI
    Posts
    59
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Airplane, Lesley Nielson ??

  14. #14
    Very Active Member Lew L's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    forrest above Reno, Nv
    Posts
    3,621
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 12tree View Post
    Airplane, Lesley Nielson ??
    You win!!!!!!!
    Kaos----- Gone but not forgotten.

    2014 RTS in Circuit Yellow, farkle-ing addiction down to once every few months. ECU FLASH IS GREAT.
    2014 RTS , Circuit Yellow

  15. #15
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Central VERMONT
    Posts
    20,271
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Aawen View Post
    Probably best to try & get the details right Fixed it for you (in bold) above!
    ????????????? …. did " Lew L " mean " Shirley " ????????? ….. Mike

  16. #16
    Very Active Member Jetfixer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Lake Wylie, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    1,040
    Spyder Garage
    2

    Default

    Since I do all my own work, I built my own laser alignment system, based on plans found here, with some modifications. http://www.lindsayroland.com/spyder/...-DIY-gear.html
    2020 RT Limited , Marsala Red

  17. #17
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    300
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Aawen View Post
    Probably best to try & get the details right Fixed it for you (in bold) above!
    Oops, brain fart, thanks.
    Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
    Rule#1: Refer to rule #2.

  18. #18
    Very Active Member canamjhb's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Mesa, Arid-Zone-A
    Posts
    2,942
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    I think this is one of those "You don't know what you don't know" situations. The bike may seem OK. But after having a proper alignment suddenly you realize just how much you were fighting the steering control. After having mine aligned by Joe, I could ride almost any road condition using just two fingers on the handlebars. I didn't realize how much I was constantly fighting the steering and the fatigue it produced. A correctly aligned bike is a lot more fun and easier to ride for long periods of time..... Jim
    2005 Windveil Blue Premium Mustang Convertible
    2008 Honda GL1800/California Sidecar Trike, SOLD
    2014 Platinum Silver Satin Spyder RTL, SOLD
    Semper Fi


  19. #19
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Oakley Utah
    Posts
    8,126
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetfixer View Post
    Since I do all my own work, I built my own laser alignment system, based on plans found here, with some modifications. http://www.lindsayroland.com/spyder/...-DIY-gear.html
    How do you reset the BUDS?
    2014 RTL Platinum


  20. #20
    Very Active Member Highwayman2013's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    North Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    4,561
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetfixer View Post
    Since I do all my own work, I built my own laser alignment system, based on plans found here, with some modifications. http://www.lindsayroland.com/spyder/...-DIY-gear.html
    Does this align to the chassis or to the rear wheel?
    2016 F3 Limited
    2019 Ryker Rally
    2014 Suzuki V Strom 650
    2020 CSC TT 250
    2016 F 3 Limited , Vegas White

  21. #21
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    SoFlo
    Posts
    4,300
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Highwayman2013 View Post
    Does this align to the chassis or to the rear wheel?
    I read through the linked info. Seeing they measure from the rear wheel, it appears it may based on the rear rim.

    They do a few other things that seem incorrect, but if it is working, then so be it.

  22. #22
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Greeneville, TN
    Posts
    13,519
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by canamjhb View Post
    I think this is one of those "You don't know what you don't know" situations. The bike may seem OK. But after having a proper alignment suddenly you realize just how much you were fighting the steering control. After having mine aligned by Joe, I could ride almost any road condition using just two fingers on the handlebars. I didn't realize how much I was constantly fighting the steering and the fatigue it produced. A correctly aligned bike is a lot more fun and easier to ride for long periods of time..... Jim
    100%.

    In the early days, Lamont & I took several, excruciatingly careful runs at aligning our Spyders. We followed BRP's instructions to the letter. They used the frame as the basis for alignment. It never worked regardless of how accurate and careful we were. That is because the frame is a very inaccurate way to align the front wheels. What you want, after all, is for all 3 wheels to be going in the same direction. When ROLO came out with their product and process for alignment. It really was a 'DUH!' moment for us. It doesn't matter what the frame orientation is. If the rear wheel is fighting (directionally) the front wheels. The Spyder is never going to handle correctly.

    The 2 major things that ROLO did was move the base line from the frame to the rear wheel using lasers to magnify (greatly) the error in alignment. The Spyder is so sensitive to alignment, that unless you greatly magnify the error, you just do not have a chance of getting it right. Rulers, tape measures and lines marked on the floor can easily be misaligned. Believe me. It only takes a little bit off and you're wasting your time.

    To be sure, the laser equipment is not magic. It still requires an operator that not only knows what they are doing. But are also willing to be meticulous in their adjustment process. A sloppy job is no better with lasers than with any other form of alignment.

    The alignment people can tell you that customers come in saying that they are very happy with their current alignment, no issues, runs straight, etc. But just want to get it checked out. (Many purveyors will not charge you if your alignment is within spec.) Only to discover that, indeed, their Spyder is out of spec. And, the customer is then quite surprised at how much better the steering is after getting a correct alignment. It's just another 'Didn't know what I didn't know' moment.
    Last edited by BajaRon; 12-24-2019 at 09:30 AM.
    Shop Ph: 423-609-7588 (M-F, 8-5, Eastern Time)

    Only SLOW people have to leave on time...





  23. #23
    Very Active Member Highwayman2013's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    North Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    4,561
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    I read through the linked info. Seeing they measure from the rear wheel, it appears it may based on the rear rim.

    They do a few other things that seem incorrect, but if it is working, then so be it.
    Just wondering because our 2016 F3L had good alignment between the front wheels but not to the back wheel. It was crabbing slightly.
    2016 F3 Limited
    2019 Ryker Rally
    2014 Suzuki V Strom 650
    2020 CSC TT 250
    2016 F 3 Limited , Vegas White

  24. #24
    Very Active Member Lew L's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    forrest above Reno, Nv
    Posts
    3,621
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    ????????????? …. did " Lew L " mean " Shirley " ????????? ….. Mike



    Surely you jest Mike. Surely you've seen the movie "Airplane!" I'm going skiing today----- surely, you are also??? "And' don't call me Shirley"

    Merry Christmass to you and yours.

    Lew L
    Kaos----- Gone but not forgotten.

    2014 RTS in Circuit Yellow, farkle-ing addiction down to once every few months. ECU FLASH IS GREAT.
    2014 RTS , Circuit Yellow

  25. #25
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Central VERMONT
    Posts
    20,271
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew L View Post
    Surely you jest Mike. Surely you've seen the movie "Airplane!" I'm going skiing today----- surely, you are also??? "And' don't call me Shirley"

    Merry Christmass to you and yours.

    Lew L
    …. I posted this using the wrong Quote ( but couldn't delete ) …. I've seen the movie a few times and always thought what He said was " Shirley " ????? …. No sking today, but I have gone 16 times to date …… Merry Christmas back at ya ….. Mike

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •