Laser Schmaser ?

[12tree]

I have a 2010 RT with 17,000 M.

I am prepared to be corrected, so don't hold back.
As I understand it, the Spyder front end alignment is for "toe in" only. There is no adjustment for caster or camber. Correct ?
If this is correct, I do not understand the big deal about a laser front end alignment.
Does this just use a laser measuring device in lieu of a ruler ?
If this is the case, I would really question the necessity of a laser.
If "toe in" specs are available it would seem to me that it could be done with a ruler.
I am not a Luddite, but I don't like being snookered either.
I have heard the advertisements for high tech laser back surgery. I understand that the only difference is that the incision is made with a laser instead of a scalpel.
It sounds impressive though.

[EdMat]

I think you are overlooking the part where it is all in relation to the rear wheel.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Correct no caster or camber …. but you forgot " Toe - out " ….. Yes it can be done manually, but a bit difficult …. If your " toe " is way off, the tire wear will be affected … sometimes minor - sometimes Major …. when a bad wear pattern starts - it ruins the tires, and pretty much correcting alignment won't save the tires. …. It is well reported here that the OEM - BRP alignment is usually OFF, my 2011 RSS wore evenly, but that was the exception ….. good luck …. Mike …. PS, I've had mine re-checked a few times and the alignment was still good.

[PMK]

Sort of. Castor is not adjustable. Camber technically is not adjustable. Toe is adjustable.

I believe toe specs are published in the manuals, however they are expressed in degrees, not a linear dimension.

You certainly can align the wheels without a laser setup. Be aware though you may need to null the steering electronics to prevent other problems.

[PinkRosePetal]

Number one; lasers are used because it's very difficult to get a measurement across the Spyder, physically, that is. The super-duper laser alignment attempts to get the chassis and all three wheels kinda neutrally aligned. Probably impossible unless you're very lucky and your rear wheel lines up with the chassis just as the belt runs true on the sprockets - not very likely. It sounds good but as soon as you drive along a road with a camber (most roads) the bike runs down the camber and you steer to counter that so the whole kaboosh runs out of line anyway.

However, plenty of Spyders appear to have poorly aligned front wheels in relation to toe-in so getting that sorted is a good thing. Since you've got a 2010RT, the steering tie-rods are very flimsy and flex under cornering loads, if you have the wherewithal to address that, you'll find your steering and general handling is much improved. They also flex on the 1330 but they're a little better but the front suspension is rubber bushed anyway so is a bit wooly.

3mm toe-in measured at the wheel rim isn't a bad place to start.

[Wildrice]

Thanks PinkPetalRosel,
3 MM Toe in. I know that if one knows the size of the tire & the adjustment show degrees, converting degrees to a length measurement shouldn't be any problem for the math minded/
Darrell

[Eckhard]

30 years of satellite alignment experience getting in the way of my understanding this.

3mm is a distance and not an angle. It is a different angle depending on the length of the baseline or wheel diameter if you like. Please supply the necessary baseline length for this to be meaningful or express it in degrees.

[PMK]

30 years of satellite alignment experience getting in the way of my understanding this.

3mm is a distance and not an angle. It is a different angle depending on the length of the baseline or wheel diameter if you like. Please supply the necessary baseline length for this to be meaningful or express it in degrees.

270mm vertical leg (long leg) of the right triangle, hypotenuse length is not critical, merely provides the intersection point for the short leg length. Could be horizontal in your case as you are looking down to sort toe setting.

in post 84, I had a full chart of camber degrees to linear dimension corrections. I dumbed it down a bit as there may have been too much info for readers.

The post 84 info works whether the triangle leg is vertical or horizontal. Vertical is camber, horizontal is toe.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

30 years of satellite alignment experience getting in the way of my understanding this.

3mm is a distance and not an angle. It is a different angle depending on the length of the baseline or wheel diameter if you like. Please supply the necessary baseline length for this to be meaningful or express it in degrees.

0° +/-0.2° in the 2013 service manual. Probably still the same for latest models. The area of strong disagreement between all the alignment folks here and BRP is the fact that you can have some toe-out and still be in spec. Experience has shown that any toe-out is detrimental to steering.

[12tree]

Thanks to all for good input and for not beating me up.

PinkRosePetal,

3mm toe-in measured at the wheel rim isn't a bad place to start.
Front edge of rim to edge of rim 3mm narrower than rear edge of rim to edge of rim and squared with centerline of rear rim ?

I live by your rule # 1 and have used that line for most of my life.

[PinkRosePetal]

PinkRosePetal,

3mm toe-in measured at the wheel rim isn't a bad place to start.
Front edge of rim to edge of rim 3mm narrower than rear edge of rim to edge of rim and squared with centerline of rear rim ?

Yup, 3mm narrower at the front of the wheel rim compared to the rear. You have 12" wheels so that gives you a tad more toe than it would on a 1330 with 13" rims. The front suspension has a certain amount of bump steer so your weight and the load in the front trunk will have a wee effect on the actual toe setting once you're riding.

I live by your rule # 1 and have used that line for most of my life.

Good call, you might find you need it here too...

[Peter Aawen]

Yup, 3mm narrower at the front of the wheel rim compared to the rear. You have 12" wheels so that gives you a tad more toe than it would on a 1330 with 13" rims. ......

Yup, 3mm narrower at the front of the wheel rim compared to the rear. You have 14" wheels so that gives you a tad more toe than it would on a 1330 with 15" rims. .........

Probably best to try & get the details right Fixed it for you (in bold) above!

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Probably best to try & get the details right Fixed it for you (in bold) above!

????????????? …. did " Lew L " mean " Shirley " ????????? ….. Mike

[Lew L]

????????????? …. did " Lew L " mean " Shirley " ????????? ….. Mike

Surely you jest Mike. Surely you've seen the movie "Airplane!" I'm going skiing today----- surely, you are also??? "And' don't call me Shirley"

Merry Christmass to you and yours.

Lew L

[PinkRosePetal]

Probably best to try & get the details right Fixed it for you (in bold) above!

Oops, brain fart, thanks.

[UtahPete]

I have a 2010 RT with 17,000 M. I am prepared to be corrected, so don't hold back.

As I understand it, the Spyder front end alignment is for "toe in" only. There is no adjustment for caster or camber. Correct? CORRECT
If this is correct, I do not understand the big deal about a laser front end alignment; does this just use a laser measuring device in lieu of a ruler? YES
If this is the case, I would really question the necessity of a laser.

Laser alignment is not necessary, but some people prefer having someone knowledgeable align their Spyder and those folks use a laser assisted system.

[Grandpot]

The biggest benefit of the laser is it projects the position of the toe-in well past the front and rear of the Spyder. This will magnify the error and therefore allow you to make a more accurate adjustment.

[JayBros]

If laser alignment systems, for both cages and Spyders, weren't more accurate than older systems dealers and independents wouldn't invest the considerable bucks they cost. The real key is the knowledge and meticulousness of the operator of the system.

[Lew L]

Squared Away did a laser alignment on my 2014 RTS a few months after we purchased it. Its been great, I can ride the crown of a 2 lane road ( plenty of those here in No. Nevada ) with my hands off the bars no pulling left or right. Hands rest on the bars when not turning . A laser alignment, done properly ( by Joe and Ann) is a wonderful ( and probably necessary) addition to most new s. Me doing this with straight edges and a tape measure surely would not be as accurate. ( and quit calling me surely) [ a movie punch line----- What movie?????? ]

Lew L

[12tree]

Airplane, Lesley Nielson ??

[Lew L]

Airplane, Lesley Nielson ??

You win!!!!!!!

[Jetfixer]

Since I do all my own work, I built my own laser alignment system, based on plans found here, with some modifications. http://www.lindsayroland.com/spyder/...-DIY-gear.html

[UtahPete]

Since I do all my own work, I built my own laser alignment system, based on plans found here, with some modifications. http://www.lindsayroland.com/spyder/...-DIY-gear.html

How do you reset the BUDS?

[Jetfixer]

How do you reset the BUDS?

I have BUDS. You need it to reset the steering angle offset, etc.

[UtahPete]

I have BUDS. You need it to reset the steering angle offset, etc.

That was my point. Not everyone realizes this.