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  1. #1
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    Default Pressure on new Vredestein tires

    Picking up the ST today with a full set of new Vredestein tires. Assuming the sidewalls on the rear are fairly stiff, I thought I would put that at 20 PSI for mostly 2 up riding. As I have only had stock "stuff" on the front in the past, on which I ran 18 PSI with great wear and success, should I perhaps run down around 15 PSI on these stiffer carcasses?
    Actually the fronts wern't worn out yet but I decided to put a whole set on to spend the winter riding Arizona.
    What are you other Vredestein owners running?

  2. #2
    Very Active Member h0gr1der's Avatar
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    I can only speak for myself and my 2018 RTL. I use 16 front and 18 rear on my Vredesteins (one up), and that gives me the most comfort. Some run their pressures higher based on a slight handling improvement and less steering effort, but I like the smooth ride.
    h0gr1der
    2018 RT Limited Blue/Chrome SE6 *Tri-Axis Bars*Adjustable Driver Backrest*175/55R15 Vredestein Front, 205/60R15 Vredestein Rear Tires*Baja Ron Front Spring Pre-Load Adjusters*Misty Mountain Sheepskin seat cover*Centramatic balancers *Garmin Zumo 595LM GPS*KOTT Grills*BajaRon swaybar*SpyderPops Alignment*Missing Belt guard*Magnetic Mirrors*Custom Rear Adjustable Shock*360° LED Headlights & Foglights*Progressive front fender turn signals
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    Very Active Member PW2013STL's Avatar
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    On my 2015 F3s I am running 16 on all three.
    We arrived in Apache Junction on the 1st of December and will be here until the end of March. If you are close by maybe we can ride together.
    2021 Sea To Sky, 2020 RTL

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    2015 F3S , White & Blue

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    Very Active Member Tango's Avatar
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    i ride mostly 2-up and use 18 frt. 20 rear.. By the time she loads up what she wants, I need it in the rear. Tom
    Baloo is my name. Spyders are my game. Well, it's a doo-bah-dee-doo, yes, it's a doo-bah-dee-doo, I mean a doo-bee, doo-bee, doo-bee, doo-bee, doo-bee-dee-doo. And, well, now. Ha ha! What have we here?



    2020 Petrol Blue Metallic RTL

  5. #5
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    I'm not going to give specific tyre pressure recommendations but there appears to be a misunderstanding about tyres, tyre load rating and inflation pressure.

    The tyre does not support the vehicle...read that again and absorb it. The air within the tyre is what supports the vehicle. If you doubt this, let the air out of your tyres and test the result!

    A tyre which has a high load rating is capable of withstanding a greater internal air pressure. Because it can withstand greater pressure it can then be inflated to a higher pressure so can then carry a higher load. It's the higher inflation air pressure that is carrying the extra load not the tyre.

    Consequently, the inflation pressure of any given application is related to the vehicles expected loads, vehicle safety and desired handling characteristics.

    There appears to be a notion that, because a tyre has a higher load rating it can be run with less air pressure. This is a faulty notion since, as already stated, the air is carrying the vehicle loads not the tyre.

    The tyre carcase does carry loads other than vehicle vertical weight during operation and that is why a tyre pressure for a vehicle is not derived by assessing only vehicle weight. The manufacture's recommended tyre pressure is derived after much testing and based on a number of perameters.

    There is an exception to this and it's the use of a run-flat tyre where the tyre is capable of withstanding operating loads for a limited period of time without destruction.

    When settling on your chosen tyre pressure, bear 2 other things in mind; tyre rubber hardens with age and heat. Each time your tyre warms up and cools it will be just a little harder, the hotter it gets, the harder it will become. Low inflation pressure generates more heat. Secondly, when a tyre is moving through water it displaces that water but as speed increases a wedge of water builds up infront of the tyre, when the pressure within that water equals the inflation pressure of the tyre aquaplaning will take place. Hence the lower the inflation pressure, the earlier the tyre will aquaplane. For a given tyre, a pressure of 18psi will induce aquaplaning at a substantially lower speed than when inflated to 28psi.

    Your choice but please do it wisely, not because you read it on the internet....
    Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
    Rule#1: Refer to rule #2.

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    Thanks to all for the input . I think I will start at 16 on the front and 20 on the rear and see how I like the ryde and handling.

  7. #7
    Very Active Member h0gr1der's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkRosePetal View Post
    I'm not going to give specific tyre pressure recommendations but there appears to be a misunderstanding about tyres, tyre load rating and inflation pressure.

    The tyre does not support the vehicle...read that again and absorb it. The air within the tyre is what supports the vehicle. If you doubt this, let the air out of your tyres and test the result!

    A tyre which has a high load rating is capable of withstanding a greater internal air pressure. Because it can withstand greater pressure it can then be inflated to a higher pressure so can then carry a higher load. It's the higher inflation air pressure that is carrying the extra load not the tyre.

    Consequently, the inflation pressure of any given application is related to the vehicles expected loads, vehicle safety and desired handling characteristics.

    There appears to be a notion that, because a tyre has a higher load rating it can be run with less air pressure. This is a faulty notion since, as already stated, the air is carrying the vehicle loads not the tyre.

    The tyre carcase does carry loads other than vehicle vertical weight during operation and that is why a tyre pressure for a vehicle is not derived by assessing only vehicle weight. The manufacture's recommended tyre pressure is derived after much testing and based on a number of perameters.

    There is an exception to this and it's the use of a run-flat tyre where the tyre is capable of withstanding operating loads for a limited period of time without destruction.

    When settling on your chosen tyre pressure, bear 2 other things in mind; tyre rubber hardens with age and heat. Each time your tyre warms up and cools it will be just a little harder, the hotter it gets, the harder it will become. Low inflation pressure generates more heat. Secondly, when a tyre is moving through water it displaces that water but as speed increases a wedge of water builds up infront of the tyre, when the pressure within that water equals the inflation pressure of the tyre aquaplaning will take place. Hence the lower the inflation pressure, the earlier the tyre will aquaplane. For a given tyre, a pressure of 18psi will induce aquaplaning at a substantially lower speed than when inflated to 28psi.

    Your choice but please do it wisely, not because you read it on the internet....
    PinkRosePetal,
    So are you running OEM tires, and if not how did you determine the correct pressure to run in the tire you installed? I struggled with this mightily on my initial car tire installation.
    h0gr1der
    2018 RT Limited Blue/Chrome SE6 *Tri-Axis Bars*Adjustable Driver Backrest*175/55R15 Vredestein Front, 205/60R15 Vredestein Rear Tires*Baja Ron Front Spring Pre-Load Adjusters*Misty Mountain Sheepskin seat cover*Centramatic balancers *Garmin Zumo 595LM GPS*KOTT Grills*BajaRon swaybar*SpyderPops Alignment*Missing Belt guard*Magnetic Mirrors*Custom Rear Adjustable Shock*360° LED Headlights & Foglights*Progressive front fender turn signals
    States Visited on Less than 4 wheels.

  8. #8
    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    Just be aware that most 'car tires' have a Max Load somewhere up around 1000kgs when they are inflated to their Max (cold) pressure of about 50 psi, but a normal car only imposes a load on each tire of about 2/3rds of that, so the tire only needs about 2/3rds of the maximum of 50 psi (or about 32-33 psi) in it for the air in the tire to suitably carry the load.... extrapolate that to take into account the lower weight of your Spyders & the air pressure required is usually only about 16-18 psi!! And this is reflected in the Load/pressure tables most manufacturers produce, even if they don't publish them like they used to!

    AND be very aware that your tires NEED to heat up a little in order to do their job properly. The tire carcass needs to flex in order to keep the tread flat on the road surface and both it & the tread itself needs to flex a little in order to create that small heat build-up and let the tread compound grip the road in the manner designed/intended - this flexing also allows the tread blocks & sipes themselves flex a little (but not too much) letting them effectively act (in concert with the tread grooving) as little 'continuously acting pumps' that will help clear anything (water, air, road debris, etc.... ) that might otherwise get trapped in the tread grooves & contribute to things like hydroplaning! That's how modern radial tires avoid that water pressure/inflation pressure thing.

    So your tires need to be inflated to a pressure that is low enough to let all this occur, but not so low that the tire overheats, and this is where YOU monitoring your tire pressure comes in!! Tire pressures ARE NOT a 'one size fits all' thing, nor are they a 'set and forget' thing!! YOU need to check your tire pressures regularly and be aware of what pressures you are running and how much your tires heat up thru use, as evidenced by the air pressure increase. Any increase of LESS than about a 4psi after an hour's use means your cold start tire pressure was TOO HIGH & your tire's grip, ride, braking, and handling suffers while your steering might feel 'more direct', but because the tire is bouncing off the road surface it actually is not... plus, your 'inflated too hard' tire is more prone to punctures, slow leaks, & the resulting catastrophic failure those can bring; while at the other end of the scale, any increase of MORE than about 6-8 psi means your cold start pressure was TOO LOW and while your ride might be soft & cushy, your steering will be indirect & spongy and the tire is risking catastrophic failure due to overheating &/or delamination.

    And with all that in mind, it really is all up to each & every one of us to make sure that we are doing the right thing by our tires each and every time we use a vehicle!
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 12-19-2019 at 08:23 PM.
    2013 RT Ltd Pearl White

    Ryde More, Worry Less!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by h0gr1der View Post
    PinkRosePetal,
    So are you running OEM tires, and if not how did you determine the correct pressure to run in the tire you installed? I struggled with this mightily on my initial car tire installation.
    I do run car tyres and I run them within the recommended pressure range. That pressure is valid because it's that air pressure which is supporting the bike, not the tyre. It may be that a car tyre is felt to run a little harsher with regard to comfort than the standard fitment tyre but this is largely due to the tread plies being stronger and more rigid rather than the tyre wall being stiffer.

    It's frequently the case that an extra load tyre (XL rated) has more flexible side walls than a standard fitment tyre. This is because more exotic fibres are used in the construction to provide the extra strength needed to withstand the extra inflation pressure. These fibres are so strong that a lighter wall construction can be utilised so mitigating the otherwise harsher ride which may have been a side effect of the XL rating.

    I'll respond to Peter's post tomorrow because it's 2am here and I'm off to bed. Night, night...
    Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
    Rule#1: Refer to rule #2.

  10. #10
    Very Active Member troop's Avatar
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    What size Vredestein are you running on the rear? I'd like the size that makes the speedo most accurate. Thx

    ** Found it **


    2022 RT Sea To Sky
    --------------------------------
    2022 RT Seat To Sky , Mystery Blue

  11. #11
    Very Active Member AeroPilot's Avatar
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    Tire pressures and temperatures

    time miles ambient temp lf fobo temp rf rear rear temp avg spd hghwy type
    6 40 75 25.8 25.6 27.6 75 45 gar
    06:30:00 am 42 68 24.2 24.6 26.2 68 0 gar
    08:45:00 am 15 50 24.6 60 24.8 26.2 60 40 gas
    10 65 50 24.6 65 24.8 27.2 70 70 int
    10:30:00 am 90 40 24.2 50 23.8 25.8 55 64 ftgar
    4 180 60 24.6 64 24.6 27.7 78 55 taos
    08:30:00 am 0 44 22.4 46 22.4 24.8 48 0 taos
    09:30:00 am 5 50 23 54 23.4 25.2 52 25 gas
    12 140 60 24.8 63 24.6 26.8 75 65 wals
    01:30:00 pm 180 64 24.6 66 25.2 27.2 77 74 home
    2.2 maxpressure change 2.9


    6 0 73 22.8 70 22.4 26.8 71 0 gar
    08:45:00 am 15 50 22.4 64 22.8 27.2 70 40 gas
    10 65 50 23 63 22 27.2 70 70 wals
    10:30:00 am 90 40 22 50 21.4 27.2 64 64 ftgar
    4 180 60 22.8 64 24.6 27 75 55 taos
    08:30:00 am 0 44 20.8 46 20.4 24.8 48 0 taos
    09:30:00 am 5 50 21.4 50 21 25.8 54 25 gas
    12 140 60 23 62 22.4 27.8 77 65 int
    01:30:00 pm 180 64 23.4 70 22.8 27.8 77 74 home
    2.6 maxpressure change 3
    07 Shadows, Aero, Spirit gone but not forgotten
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    11 RT- 76,000 mi, 15 RT-S- 44,000 mi, traded for current 15 base RT and 16 F3T
    2015 RT , OEM Black Gloss

  12. #12
    Very Active Member AeroPilot's Avatar
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    Sorry for the unformatted data copied from a spreadsheet I started last Spring. We took a cool early season trip to Taos typical of our riding style, and saw tire pressures increasing about 2 psi on the front Kumho Solus and Federal Formosas and about 3 psi on the rear Generals. Although the temp rise was modest due to low 50s-60s temps, handling and tire wear works for us. I just changed out the rear Generals this last month with a little more than 21,000 miles logged, and tire wear would be worse at lower pressures.

    The front tire pressures were a little high, but we like the easier load on the DPS at low speed maneuvers. We're cruisers, and this is what we use.... not trying to say its best for everyone, but its what I feel is best for our riding. If you like to look at real world numbers like I do at least it gives data to compare. I know that warm weather temps increase the tire pressure rise due to lower heat transfer due to less temperature differential.
    07 Shadows, Aero, Spirit gone but not forgotten
    03 Harley Sportster, 07 RK moved on
    11 RT- 76,000 mi, 15 RT-S- 44,000 mi, traded for current 15 base RT and 16 F3T
    2015 RT , OEM Black Gloss

  13. #13
    Active Member Jeffmal's Avatar
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    Default Works for me...

    Quote Originally Posted by fulltimer View Post
    Thanks to all for the input . I think I will start at 16 on the front and 20 on the rear and see how I like the ryde and handling.
    I am at 16 -17 front and 19-20 rear and that seems to be the "sweet spot" !

  14. #14
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkRosePetal View Post
    I do run car tyres and I run them within the recommended pressure range. That pressure is valid because it's that air pressure which is supporting the bike, not the tyre. It may be that a car tyre is felt to run a little harsher with regard to comfort than the standard fitment tyre but this is largely due to the tread plies being stronger and more rigid rather than the tyre wall being stiffer.

    It's frequently the case that an extra load tyre (XL rated) has more flexible side walls than a standard fitment tyre. This is because more exotic fibres are used in the construction to provide the extra strength needed to withstand the extra inflation pressure. These fibres are so strong that a lighter wall construction can be utilised so mitigating the otherwise harsher ride which may have been a side effect of the XL rating.

    I'll respond to Peter's post tomorrow because it's 2am here and I'm off to bed. Night, night...
    ???.... " I do run car tyres and I run them within the recommended pressure range " …. There are NO Car tire manufactures that recommend Pressures for Car tires on any Spyder ( or any motorcycle )...… I'm curious, where did you get the information to support your statement ????? …………….Mike

  15. #15
    Very Active Member h0gr1der's Avatar
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    I did take time to read some studies on hydroplaning, and they did indeed point to higher inflation pressures, deeper tread, and more axle (wheel) weight as resisting hydroplaning better. Lower pressure increases the contact patch, so the larger area will lift sooner.

    However, in other studies I've read, they suggest the "correct" inflation for a tire casing is one that has all the tread on the ground evenly, causes the tread to heat evenly (barring misalignment) all the way across, and resists too much temperature buildup. A tire tread pyrometer is an invaluable tool in this quest.

    Having said all that, the Spyder axle loading is very light per wheel (compared to cars), so you need to do your own research to determine your comfort level.
    h0gr1der
    2018 RT Limited Blue/Chrome SE6 *Tri-Axis Bars*Adjustable Driver Backrest*175/55R15 Vredestein Front, 205/60R15 Vredestein Rear Tires*Baja Ron Front Spring Pre-Load Adjusters*Misty Mountain Sheepskin seat cover*Centramatic balancers *Garmin Zumo 595LM GPS*KOTT Grills*BajaRon swaybar*SpyderPops Alignment*Missing Belt guard*Magnetic Mirrors*Custom Rear Adjustable Shock*360° LED Headlights & Foglights*Progressive front fender turn signals
    States Visited on Less than 4 wheels.

  16. #16
    Very Active Member Peteoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fulltimer View Post
    Thanks to all for the input . I think I will start at 16 on the front and 20 on the rear and see how I like the ryde and handling.
    Yep, that’s the best way to start, fulltimer. Then adjust to suit if you are unhappy. There are riders using 15psi and riders using 30psi in their car tyres, and there have been no reported issues. You just have to do as much research as you can and find the psi combo that best suits you. In fact, BlueKnight accidentally ran a rear tyre at below 10psi for a while with no issues...... and I have NEVER had any issues with aquaplaning running my car tyres at 16-18.

    Pete
    Harrington, Australia

    2021 RT Limited
    Setup for Tall & Big.... 200cm/6'7", 140kg/300lbs, 37"inleg.

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    Russell Daylong seat 2” taller than stock (in Sunbrella for Aussie heat & water resistance)
    Goodyear Duragrip 165/60 fronts (18psi) - provides extra 1/2” ground clearance.
    Kenda Kanine rear.
    2021 RT Limited , Brake pedal rubber removed for ease of accessing pedal with size 15 boots. Red

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peteoz View Post
    Yep, that’s the best way to start, fulltimer. Then adjust to suit if you are unhappy. There are riders using 15psi and riders using 30psi in their car tyres, and there have been no reported issues. You just have to do as much research as you can and find the psi combo that best suits you. In fact, BlueKnight accidentally ran a rear tyre at below 10psi for a while with no issues...... and I have NEVER had any issues with aquaplaning running my car tyres at 16-18.

    Pete
    I agree. Even though my owners manual recommends 15 of the stock rubber fronts, I have run around 18 and got good handling and wear. I think these are a little stiffer so I will start at 16.

    I had to laugh coming home from the place where I had them installed. He had put 35 PSI in them, which I knew, so they would seat in well on the rims. They actually seemed to bounce at every bump I hit. I'll get them adjusted today.

    Have a Merry Christmas all.

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