Good example of a shot battery

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Discussions have come up many times here about, "What's wrong? My Spyder won't start. Battery show 12+ volts, or charger shows 100% charged." Here's a good example of why you cannot rely on those two indicators to judge your battery's condition.

I noticed this evening that the battery in my Spyder was dead. I mean totally dead. Nothing, nada, not even a beep! So I plugged my Diehard Charger/Maintainer into the trunk power outlet. Now this charger/maintainer will put out 3 amps, according to the label. After the usual analyzing step, it went into charge mode. About a minute later it finally showed "Charging 12v -- 0%". About 40 minutes later it showed "Charging 12v -- 85%". Are you kidding me? 85% charged in 40 minutes from total dead at a 3 amp rate? So I turn the key on. The cluster lights up and my trunk LED light is shining full bright! My Battery Bug voltmeter shows 13.4 volts. I hit the start button. Sure enough the cluster screen goes wacky and blanks out and of course, no start. This is the original battery, now over 5 years old.

So for everyone who isn't yet aware, just because your charger says your battery is fully charged and your volt meter shows full voltage, your battery may still be junk!

BTW, the replacement I bought last spring when I first noticed the battery wasn't performing well is on the bench ready to be prepped and put in when riding season returns! And contrary to much stated experience, I have found that a 2 or 3 amp charger can charge up a totally dead battery, at least sometimes.

[Flamewinger]

Charging a motorcycle battery should be 2 amp/hr or less. No more. The slower the better. Sounds like the charger is not working right. It's also best to connect directly to the battery not a power outlet?

How old is the battery? What brand?

[pegasus1300]

He said in the post it was the original battery, 5 years old. Therefore it must have been a Yuasa.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Charging a motorcycle battery should be 2 amp/hr or less. No more. The slower the better. Sounds like the charger is not working right. It's also best to connect directly to the battery not a power outlet?

How old is the battery? What brand?

As I said above the battery is over 5 years old and is the original, meaning Yuasa. The charger is a nearly new Diehard smart charger. It's label output is 3 A but I don't know what it's actual output is as I'm sure that's controlled by whatever the charging algorithm is in the charger. When I just now checked it the charger was in maintain mode but the battery had dropped down to 7.2 volts. I unplugged the charger from the bike, waited a few seconds, and plugged it back in. This time the charger initially showed charging 12v -- 0%.

My point is, the battery is shot and even though it showed fully charged and 12+ volts it still had no cranking oomph. Also, the 2 amp limit you mention is a rule of thumb of 10% of the amp-hr rating. Rules of thumb provide guidance but are not absolute. It's my understanding the charging rate is much more critical for the initial charge of a new battery than for subsequent charging.

And why do you say it's much better to connect directly to the battery than through the power outlet? The only difference is the length of wire between the charger and battery, and at 2 - 3 amps all the wire in the bike is large enough that the voltage drop is negligible.

[Little Blue]

Load testing the battery gives you a better idea of battery capacity.
The voltage can be 12v, (really needs to be 12.8v) the amperage tells the real problem.
Most battery shops will test your battery for you. Some even do this test for free....

[Gwolf]

When the battery reads a full charge and still won't turn the starter there is a very good chance it has one or more bad cells. The places that sell new batteries will load test it for free. You have to take it out and take it up there anyway to get a new one.

It is a good example of a bad battery.......... not only in a Spyder, but also in cars, truck, tractors, and lawnmowers.

[bayoubill]

you can just hit the start button with a meter on it to see if it drops too much

[ozarkryder]

You say the Battery Bug read 13.4 volts. Just curious, and assuming it had not been reset since the last attempt at starting, what did the "health" function of it read?

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

You say the Battery Bug read 13.4 volts. Just curious, and assuming it had not been reset since the last attempt at starting, what did the "health" function of it read?

I had it disconnected during the time the battery went dead so after reconnecting it it showed 100%. It doesn't show a health % right now as the voltage has dropped back down to 7.7 even with the maintainer showing fully charged - auto maintain and the BB doesn't give the % when voltage is low. Kind of makes me think this DieHard maintainer isn't designed to cope with a battery in crappy condition! I think I might fix the lead on my other charger/maintainer and connect it and see if anything different happens. It's a NAPA unit with a 2 amp output. The broken lead in the other one is why I bought the DieHard since I thought the NAPA one had died.

The battery is shot so why not experiment a little bit with it, right?

[EdMat]

It doesn't show a health % right now as the voltage has dropped back down to 7.7 even with the maintainer showing fully charged - auto maintain and the BB doesn't give the % when voltage is low. Kind of makes me think this DieHard maintainer isn't designed to cope with a battery in crappy condition!

The DieHard may think its hooked to a 6 volt battery.

[canamjhb]

I had it disconnected during the time the battery went dead so after reconnecting it it showed 100%. It doesn't show a health % right now as the voltage has dropped back down to 7.7 even with the maintainer showing fully charged - auto maintain and the BB doesn't give the % when voltage is low. Kind of makes me think this DieHard maintainer isn't designed to cope with a battery in crappy condition! I think I might fix the lead on my other charger/maintainer and connect it and see if anything different happens. It's a NAPA unit with a 2 amp output. The broken lead in the other one is why I bought the DieHard since I thought the NAPA one had died.

The battery is shot so why not experiment a little bit with it, right?

Just don't blow yourself up. They can explode, even a dead one if being overcharged...... Jim

[Flamewinger]

And why do you say it's much better to connect directly to the battery than through the power outlet? The only difference is the length of wire between the charger and battery, and at 2 - 3 amps all the wire in the bike is large enough that the voltage drop is negligible.

No Spyder comes with a OEM cig power outlet. Understandably there is a fuse in the wiring of the power outlet which can possibly be a problem. It's not that hard to make connections to the battery, especially if you have a motorcycle charger that comes with a pigtail. According to Yuasa the slower you charge the better. If my battery was 5 years old I would've just replaced it. I have found that I can tell the battery is going bad and if charging it doesn't do much I replace it.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

No Spyder comes with a OEM cig power outlet.

You saying they don't come with this?

Trunk power outlet.jpg

If my battery was 5 years old I would've just replaced it. I have found that I can tell the battery is going bad and if charging it doesn't do much I replace it.

Did you miss where I said I have the replacement sitting on the workbench? I've been expecting it to die completely since mid summer!

The whole point of this post is to show owners who are not aware that you cannot rely on "fully charged" and "over 12 volts" to say a battery is still OK. You have read posts, haven't you, from members who have asked, "What's wrong? Why won't my Spyder start?" and then go on to say their battery checks out good? And then they proceed to be shocked to find how well their bike starts after they replace the battery, which they were sure was just fine!

[PMK]

A few months ago, I replaced the original battery in our 2014 RTS. We bought our Spyder the end of Jan 2014, based just on ownership since new, not including time from manufactured, we got 5 years and 8 months from our original battery.

The original battery was still working, but had developed a noticeable first start drop in engine cranking rpm to stsrt it. Rather be stranded, I purchased a new Yuasa replacement from a dealer.

Our original battery was on a Battery Minder brand maintainer with desulfation mode that it accomplishes automatically.

Before installing the new battery, I slow charged it fully with the Battery Minder, verified voltages etc and installed.

This battery too, is on the Battery Minder pretty much all the time when the Spyder is home. Years ago, I did swap the fuses and connect the Battery Minder cigarette lighter adapter pigtail into the round cigarette lighter style powerport in the trunk.

No regrets on replacing the battery before complete failure or using the Battery Minder as I do.

[PMK]

Discussions have come up many times here about, "What's wrong? My Spyder won't start. Battery show 12+ volts, or charger shows 100% charged." Here's a good example of why you cannot rely on those two indicators to judge your battery's condition.

I noticed this evening that the battery in my Spyder was dead. I mean totally dead. Nothing, nada, not even a beep! So I plugged my Diehard Charger/Maintainer into the trunk power outlet. Now this charger/maintainer will put out 3 amps, according to the label. After the usual analyzing step, it went into charge mode. About a minute later it finally showed "Charging 12v -- 0%". About 40 minutes later it showed "Charging 12v -- 85%". Are you kidding me? 85% charged in 40 minutes from total dead at a 3 amp rate? So I turn the key on. The cluster lights up and my trunk LED light is shining full bright! My Battery Bug voltmeter shows 13.4 volts. I hit the start button. Sure enough the cluster screen goes wacky and blanks out and of course, no start. This is the original battery, now over 5 years old.

So for everyone who isn't yet aware, just because your charger says your battery is fully charged and your volt meter shows full voltage, your battery may still be junk!

BTW, the replacement I bought last spring when I first noticed the battery wasn't performing well is on the bench ready to be prepped and put in when riding season returns! And contrary to much stated experience, I have found that a 2 or 3 amp charger can charge up a totally dead battery, at least sometimes.

Agree.

Did you get a dry battery and that is why you need prep the battery?
My Yuasa was the same as oem. Was in a sealed Yuasa box, already serviced, but somehow thought it was an AGM style battery. The instructions had you check voltage if I remember correctly. Our new battery was fine per specs, but I did connect the Battry Minder for a day or so, bringing it well into the preferred voltage range specified.

[bayoubill]

i replace a motorcycle battery after 4 years regardless of the condition, i'm not going to get stranded probably at the worst time or place over trying to squeeze a few more months out of an old battery.

[billybovine]

Voltage is not an indicator if the battery is good or bad. Low voltage does not mean the battery is bad, just discharged. High voltage does not mean the battery is good, just fully charged.

Age has little to do with how good a battery is. A new battery may be bad and often are. An older battery may be just fine. But they don't last forever. It has more to do with how often the battery has been deeply discharged and how long they sit with a low charge. If you wish to change out your battery every so often. Sure go ahead. Just remember that new battery can fail too.

If you want to truly know if your battery is any good. It needs to be load tested. As pointed out by others. Many shops will do this for free. Also there are electronic load testers available, that are cheap enough for a home shop. It should be done once a year or if you are diagnosing a problem. I do have a problem when folks are given the the advice to change out the battery for an electrical issue without load testing it first. That's when the symtoms are not specific enough. They put in a new battery. That does fix the problem and by the time the real problem is fixed. The battery has been discharged many times. Taking years of life out of the new battery.

Your Spyder will load test the battery for you. If the connections are clean a tight. If the starter is in good condition. Nothing internally wrong with the engine. If the battery is fully charged. When you press the start button and the gauge cluster goes blank and reboots. The battery is bad. But then it is too late because it will happen at an inconvenient time. So properly load test the battery once a year or less. If it passes. It will likely last another year. If it fails. Replace it and you will have avoided a problem.

[Mr. White]

i replace a motorcycle battery after 4 years regardless of the condition, i'm not going to get stranded probably at the worst time or place over trying to squeeze a few more months out of an old battery.

I agree with Bill but replace batteries every three years.....needed or not. If I would get stranded in southwest Texas, with no cell service or towns and little vehicle traffic I would be in trouble.....which I don't need. Yep, every three years....and give them a full charge before installing new battery....

[ARtraveler]

Another card on the pile for replacement every three years. When they go, it is never convenient for the owner of the Spyder. Think, Murphy's Law.

[Gwolf]

Good example of a bad battery is the one in my lawnmower that I was working on this morning. Was going to mow some yesterday. Mower wouldn't start. Spun it about 2 times and the battery went weak. Went back out this morning and put the charger on it. Only took about an hour until it was reading 100% charge and about 13 volts. Spun it a couple of times and it went weak again. Battery is only 2 years old, but it is the OEM battery that came in the mower when I bought it. It is most likely the cheapest one they could possible buy. I am going to NAPA tomorrow morning and get it load tested........ fully expecting to be buying a new battery.

[RICZ]

If a battery is not kept on a maintainer and sits for and extended time, the plates start to get a coating of sulphite on them. When that happens, the battery can't absorb a full charge, and fades fast.

[Gwolf]

If a battery is not kept on a maintainer and sits for and extended time, the plates start to get a coating of sulphite on them. When that happens, the battery can't absorb a full charge, and fades fast.

This is Florida......... you gotta mow the grass every two weeks, even in December.

[Peteoz]

Yeah, Idaho, same experience for me, except at an earlier stage of the battery life. (12 months)
I used to get out during the day for rides, stopping for breaks with no issue. I then used to hook it up to the tender when I got home. Then I did an overnighter. It wouldn’t start next morning. Luckily I was at a motel in a town that had a bike shop, and yep, the battery was shot. The tender had been masking it for a while......if I had been somewhere remote, it would have been a different story. These days I only put it on the tender if it is going to be parked for a week or so.......plus, I carry one of Lamont’s jump starters

Pete

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Did you get a dry battery and that is why you need prep the battery?

Yes. It came bottle supplied which is one reason I've had no concern about letting it sit on the bench for months before using it.

Was in a sealed Yuasa box, already serviced, but somehow thought it was an AGM style battery.

What do you mean "thought"? The same as OEM battery is AGM. It says so right on the box. At least that's what I read on the box I have!

[Gwolf]

With all this talk about about batteries...... reminds me of how upset I was when I bought my first motorcycle that didn't have a kick starter on it and you couldn't even get one as an option. All the electronics on the newer motorcycles now, a kick starter wouldn't do much good. They wouldn't start with a bad battery anyway.