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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by Docster
"There are some experts on here that do not agree with Shawn S. Even a casual read on the subject of tires will show that (dare I say 75%...number not vetted), are using car tires. I am also a recent convert."
I would hope the OP perhaps do some reading of at least SOME of the dozens of car tire threads, get an idea of how many people use them and why/what problems have occurred with them then make up his own mind. These "just another tire thread" threads are getting ludicrous. Read, research and decide for yourself!
I’m sorry you did not read my OP , like most of the people who hijacked my thread , I explained in it if you had actually read it that I am and will use car tires and have been doing so fo the last five years and did a 10,000 mile croscountry 66 day ride this summer on car tires . I don’t feel that my post was “ludicrous” and was simply looking for opinions if anyone had knowledge of car tires affecting the traction control system, again I would say that before adding or hijacking a thread one should read the OP.
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Very Active Member
The Traction Control / Nanny will work the same But: If you go around a corner with OEM Tires trying to make the Nanny kick in it will kick sooner, then with Car Tires. With Car Tires it kicks in much later according to post I have seen here. So in some ways Shawn S could be right if the OEM tires make the Nanny kick in at say 50MPH because they are weak and the Car Tires Kick in at 75MPH because they are stronger. Now the Nanny has to deal with 75MPH vs 50MPH. So I'm thinking some one has to present the other side. Car tires are good if you don't change your driving style Live to Ride, Ride to Live.
Last edited by CopperSpyder; 11-18-2019 at 01:35 PM.
My Spyder
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by Docster
"There are some experts on here that do not agree with Shawn S. Even a casual read on the subject of tires will show that (dare I say 75%...number not vetted), are using car tires. I am also a recent convert."
I would hope the OP perhaps do some reading of at least SOME of the dozens of car tire threads, get an idea of how many people use them and why/what problems have occurred with them then make up his own mind. These "just another tire thread" threads are getting ludicrous. Read, research and decide for yourself!
And yet you took time to not only read it, but comment on it.
h0gr1der
2018 RT Limited Blue/Chrome SE6 *Tri-Axis Bars*Adjustable Driver Backrest*175/55R15 Vredestein Front, 205/60R15 Vredestein Rear Tires*Baja Ron Front Spring Pre-Load Adjusters*Misty Mountain Sheepskin seat cover*Centramatic balancers *Garmin Zumo 595LM GPS*KOTT Grills*BajaRon swaybar*SpyderPops Alignment*Missing Belt guard*Magnetic Mirrors*Custom Rear Adjustable Shock*360° LED Headlights & Foglights*Progressive front fender turn signals
States Visited on Less than 4 wheels.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by easysuper
I’m sorry you did not read my OP , like most of the people who hijacked my thread , I explained in it if you had actually read it that I am and will use car tires and have been doing so fo the last five years and did a 10,000 mile croscountry 66 day ride this summer on car tires . I don’t feel that my post was “ludicrous” and was simply looking for opinions if anyone had knowledge of car tires affecting the traction control system, again I would say that before adding or hijacking a thread one should read the OP.
I did a lot of fretting over tires, finally went on the knowledge that others have been successful in their endeavors. One thing I can't find out is how the Nanny handles the different sizes than OEM. Here's my take on it, based on my previous life as an I&E tech. The computer uses programming to determine if one wheel is stopped or out of spec as far a revolutions (wheel speed sensors). There will be a tolerance because tires wear, rear mores o than front. In selecting my tires, I opted to go with a match that made less of an overall difference in the front/rear rolling ratio. I'm speculating, because I don't know how they programmed the stability computer. If you go with a larger rolling diameter on the rear (I did), try to increase the front rolling diameter the same percentage. It should keep you farther from Nanny intrusion. Just guessing.
h0gr1der
2018 RT Limited Blue/Chrome SE6 *Tri-Axis Bars*Adjustable Driver Backrest*175/55R15 Vredestein Front, 205/60R15 Vredestein Rear Tires*Baja Ron Front Spring Pre-Load Adjusters*Misty Mountain Sheepskin seat cover*Centramatic balancers *Garmin Zumo 595LM GPS*KOTT Grills*BajaRon swaybar*SpyderPops Alignment*Missing Belt guard*Magnetic Mirrors*Custom Rear Adjustable Shock*360° LED Headlights & Foglights*Progressive front fender turn signals
States Visited on Less than 4 wheels.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by easysuper
Let me start by saying I have around 100 k miles on car tires on my spyders we have owned and have been happy with them, both front and rear. While watching the latest Shawn Smoak video he was doing on the parking break he spotted a car tire on the bike he was working on (happens to be my wife’s bike) that was in for service. His comment was “ oh car tire , danger danger” then he moved on about the adjustment of the parking brake. When I went in to pick the bike up and asked him about the comment his reply was that the car tires affect the traction control system and it’s not as safe. I value Shawns expertise and was wondering what the other “experts out there have to offer” I will most likely stay with car tires as I have had no issues with them. I will add that I sometimes ride very aggressive and have never been spanked by the Nanny.
I run car tires on my 2014RTS-SE6 and I have not had any problems with the nanny.
I run General Altimax RT 43 on the rear( matter of fact I am on my 2nd General Altimax RT 43 tire on the rear of the spyder) , & I run the Continental Contiprocontacts on the fronts. ( have them on the fronts for 3 years now until present, no problems).
I don't watch Shawn Smoak video's.
Deanna
Current Spyder - 2023 F3 LTD Special Mineral Blue
Red LED NANO Saddlebag Marker Lights with Full Illumination
Sequential Fender LED'S (Amber/Red) with Safety Reflector
Dual Power Plate (12 V & USB ports)
Gremlin Bell
Rear Trunk Organizer (4 holders, 2 Elastic Holders)
Lamonster "Top Cuff" with adjustable drink Holder
SpyderPops Missing Guard Belt
Console Accent Trim (Carbon Fiber Domed Black)
Ultimate F3 Floorboards
Front Fairing Service Access Door Covers (Carbon Fiber Doomed Black)
Sway Bar with Links
Rolo Laser Alignment
Half Cover
A-Arm Daytime Dual Color LED Running Lights with Blinker Module
Hi-Viz DRL and Sequential Mirrors lights
Former Spyder - 2014 RTS SE6 Cognac SOLD
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by h0gr1der
I did a lot of fretting over tires, finally went on the knowledge that others have been successful in their endeavors. One thing I can't find out is how the Nanny handles the different sizes than OEM. Here's my take on it, based on my previous life as an I&E tech. The computer uses programming to determine if one wheel is stopped or out of spec as far a revolutions (wheel speed sensors). There will be a tolerance because tires wear, rear mores o than front. In selecting my tires, I opted to go with a match that made less of an overall difference in the front/rear rolling ratio. I'm speculating, because I don't know how they programmed the stability computer. If you go with a larger rolling diameter on the rear (I did), try to increase the front rolling diameter the same percentage. It should keep you farther from Nanny intrusion. Just guessing.
Guessing ,..... join the club …. only Bosche ( and not likely BRP, because the info is proprietary ) … Waaaaaaaaaaay back at the beginning of the Spyder according to BRP history, Bosche had a difficult time setting the VSS to an acceptical level of control (?)…. Bosche has the formula and they aren't sharing. …. Tire sizes MUST be within a certain range to be accepted by the computer … The Spyders are quite limited in what will fit inside the tupperware and metal framework.... and I haven't found a tire size combination that will trigger a Fault Code. … if the tire can be mounted within the framework, you are safe ……. Mike
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FWIW I have to give my Michelin Defender a very low grade for traction. I can hardly ever use high throttle at low speeds in any of the first three gears... it will just spin, spin, spin.
On wet pavement, it behaves like it's icy pavement.
On dry pavement, it behaves like it's wet pavement. (Except maybe on really coarse concrete. I'm talking blacktop, the majority of the roads around here.)
Today a hot little Mustang decided to drag-race me from a stoplight, on blacktop, so I joined the fun. But I immediately started fishtailing with no traction, and he surged ahead, TEMPORARILY. Of course, when my tire finally grabbed some ass(phalt), I smoked his buns for him.
But still... I'm looking for better traction on my next CAR tire selection.
NEW - 2015 RT Limited SE6 Intense Red Pearl - 07/21/15
Retained the old mirrors with TricLed Signals
General Altimax RT43 rear tire (at...17,000 miles) Ran for 36,500 miles
Michelin Defender.......rear tire (at...53,500 miles) Ran for 60,700 miles
Riken Raptor HR.........rear tire (at 114,200 miles)
Vredestein Quatrac 5 front tires (at 70,500 miles, first new fronts!)
Gear Brake Decelerometer Module
OLD - 2012 RT Limited SE5 Pearl White - 01/31/13 - Traded in at 32,600 miles.
BajaRon Anti-sway Bar
Kumho ECSTA AST rear tire (at 14,200 miles)
TricLed Turn Signals in Mirrors
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by missouriboy
FWIW I have to give my Michelin Defender a very low grade for traction. I can hardly ever use high throttle at low speeds in any of the first three gears... it will just spin, spin, spin.
On wet pavement, it behaves like it's icy pavement.
On dry pavement, it behaves like it's wet pavement. (Except maybe on really coarse concrete. I'm talking blacktop, the majority of the roads around here.)
Today a hot little Mustang decided to drag-race me from a stoplight, on blacktop, so I joined the fun. But I immediately started fishtailing with no traction, and he surged ahead, TEMPORARILY. Of course, when my tire finally grabbed some ass(phalt), I smoked his buns for him.
But still... I'm looking for better traction on my next CAR tire selection.
In the past I had recommended the Michelin Defender …. " the T&H Model " ….. The original Defender is now an older tire, how old yours is - you didn't say - Also with any Auto tire the PSI is critical to the amount of Traction it has .….. just sayin …… Mike ...………..PS the T&H model had a much higher performance rating then the original Defender had …..
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Mike, today the tire is 16.5psi (cold). It has ~24,200 miles on it, and the crosswise rain sipes are still prominent.
The DOT number is: DOT APP2 023X 1916 If those last four digits mean Week 19 of Year 2016, then DANG, it was already two years old when I bought it (03/18).
I couldn't find anything like "T&H Model" anywhere on the sidewall. Does that mean Traction & Handling??
On the Order Receipt, I did find this: Michelin Defender 205/60R15 91T BSW If that "91T" is in place of "T&H", perhaps that's the difference? If true, that's my bad, because I found T&H where I wrote down the info from your post, but apparently disregarded it when searching the internet for the tire...
NEW - 2015 RT Limited SE6 Intense Red Pearl - 07/21/15
Retained the old mirrors with TricLed Signals
General Altimax RT43 rear tire (at...17,000 miles) Ran for 36,500 miles
Michelin Defender.......rear tire (at...53,500 miles) Ran for 60,700 miles
Riken Raptor HR.........rear tire (at 114,200 miles)
Vredestein Quatrac 5 front tires (at 70,500 miles, first new fronts!)
Gear Brake Decelerometer Module
OLD - 2012 RT Limited SE5 Pearl White - 01/31/13 - Traded in at 32,600 miles.
BajaRon Anti-sway Bar
Kumho ECSTA AST rear tire (at 14,200 miles)
TricLed Turn Signals in Mirrors
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by missouriboy
Mike, today the tire is 16.5psi (cold). It has ~24,200 miles on it, and the crosswise rain sipes are still prominent.
The DOT number is: DOT APP2 023X 1916 If those last four digits mean Week 19 of Year 2016, then DANG, it was already two years old when I bought it (03/18).
I couldn't find anything like "T&H Model" anywhere on the sidewall. Does that mean Traction & Handling??
On the Order Receipt, I did find this: Michelin Defender 205/60R15 91T BSW If that "91T" is in place of "T&H", perhaps that's the difference? If true, that's my bad, because I found T&H where I wrote down the info from your post, but apparently disregarded it when searching the internet for the tire...
The " T&H " should be imprinted on the sidewall …. and if your tire is from 2016 it couldn't be a T&H because they hadn't been introduced yet !!!! ……. I reviewed some of you posts and saw that you had been using the Altimax RT43 ( a tire I did recommend until I discovered the Vredestein Quatrac 5 ) ….. you said your tire is at 16.5 psi Now …. what was it normally ???? …. PS Peter did a nice info piece a few post up on this thread - He also knows a lot about tires annnnnnd it's accurate - no guessing …… good luck …. and thanks for replying ….. Mike
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mike: ...you said your tire is at 16.5 psi Now …. what was it normally ????...
I keep this tire at 15-17. About the same in the fronts.
NEW - 2015 RT Limited SE6 Intense Red Pearl - 07/21/15
Retained the old mirrors with TricLed Signals
General Altimax RT43 rear tire (at...17,000 miles) Ran for 36,500 miles
Michelin Defender.......rear tire (at...53,500 miles) Ran for 60,700 miles
Riken Raptor HR.........rear tire (at 114,200 miles)
Vredestein Quatrac 5 front tires (at 70,500 miles, first new fronts!)
Gear Brake Decelerometer Module
OLD - 2012 RT Limited SE5 Pearl White - 01/31/13 - Traded in at 32,600 miles.
BajaRon Anti-sway Bar
Kumho ECSTA AST rear tire (at 14,200 miles)
TricLed Turn Signals in Mirrors
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by missouriboy
mike: ...you said your tire is at 16.5 psi Now …. what was it normally ????...
I keep this tire at 15-17. About the same in the fronts.
Interesting about the PSI you had in the Defender tire ….. From what I know of that ( older model ) tire it wasn't as good as the T&H model but it wasn't bad by any stretch, the psi you were using was where Auto tires work best on Spyders ….. thanks …. Mike
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Originally Posted by easysuper
Let me start by saying I have around 100 k miles on car tires on my spyders we have owned and have been happy with them, both front and rear. While watching the latest Shawn Smoak video he was doing on the parking break he spotted a car tire on the bike he was working on (happens to be my wife’s bike) that was in for service. His comment was “ oh car tire , danger danger” then he moved on about the adjustment of the parking brake. When I went in to pick the bike up and asked him about the comment his reply was that the car tires affect the traction control system and it’s not as safe. I value Shawns expertise and was wondering what the other “experts out there have to offer” I will most likely stay with car tires as I have had no issues with them. I will add that I sometimes ride very aggressive and have never been spanked by the Nanny.
I'm calling BS on Shaun's comments. The salesman who sold me my bike new said the same.
Me also thinks that most of it comes from Kenda being the only official supplier of tyres for Spyders and BRP want to protect that relationship, but at our expense. Plus I really don't think some mechanics fully understand how these systems work either.
Since fitting a car tyre to the rear of the RTL Nanny visits far less often, it breaks and corners far better. My logic follows that of some advice I sought from a motoring association Automotive Engineer when I queried an ABS event ... he said : "Your grip, braking, handling are only as good as the weakest component in each of those actions. If you have a Low quality tyre, when you hit the brakes hard the other 3 calipers reduce their grip on their respective disks to compensate for the weakest tyre that isn't able to maintain grip. If the shock pushing down on the tyre is poor, then grip is reduced in all scenarios with a result of poor performance."
Even my current insurer agrees that "fitting a better tyre would have to improve the machine and the safety systems ability to take care of you and your pillion."
If BRP have created a neanderthal traction control system then perhaps that may be the case. I do at times chose to ride the RTL hard, and can say I have not found an aspect of its handling, grip or braking that hasn't improved since fitting a car tyre. I am also an all weather rider and I mean all weather, and since fitting the Nankang I can predict what the RTL will do .... keep straight, where as in the past, if you hit a puddle on the road then the only thing you could predict with certainty is that you'd have a brown secretion in your underwear - the rest was in the hands of Luck/God/Your Stars.
I'd also argue the same with aftermarket suspension as I have just done to my RTL. My god what an improvement it has made. Until BRP can put in writing the facts I'll teat it with the same disdain as their choice of tyre.
Soapbox back under the counter ...
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There's really no argument here. When the manufacturer states in writing that you must use a specific part that's what you need to use. Kenda is the only manufacturer tested and approved tire specially designed for use on the Spyder. No one can argue with that. It's written in the owners manual. Don't yell at me I didn't write it!
With that said there are thousands and thousands of miles on car tires. You can use whatever you like.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by put1in
There's really no argument here. When the manufacturer states in writing that you must use a specific part that's what you need to use. Kenda is the only manufacturer tested and approved tire specially designed for use on the Spyder. No one can argue with that. It's written in the owners manual. Don't yell at me I didn't write it!
With that said there are thousands and thousands of miles on car tires. You can use whatever you like.
You misquote and misunderstand what BRP says. They do not state you MUST use the Kenda tire. They recommend it as it was tested with the VSS calibration.
Its been shown pretty extensively that using a tire that surpasses the specs of the Kenda in no way reduces the effectiveness of the systems. It actually keeps them less active and provides a better and safer riding experience.
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Very Active Member
From my 2019 F3-S owners manual. I think BRP is being pretty specific with the second sentence. Still gonna buy some Vredestein fronts next week
The tires have been specifically designed for this vehicle. Use only the
BRP recommended radial tires, which
can be ordered only from an authorized
Can-Am On-Road dealer.
2022 RT Sea To Sky
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Yesterday I visited my local Spyder dealer to discuss options and pricing for a 2020 RT Limited. I brought up the subject of tires, and specifically whether they would mount car tires on my Spyder for me. The service tech response was "we could mount them, but we would then have to fail the bike on inspection because under PA law a motorcycle must have motorcycle-specific tires". I haven't done any research to confirm his statement, but I now wonder if there are any other Pennsylvania Spyder owners who have encountered this? I ended up not pulling the trigger due to dissatisfaction with the dealer's pricing relative to my trade-in bike. I may just wait and sell my bike outright and try for a clean deal later.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by japgen
Yesterday I visited my local Spyder dealer to discuss options and pricing for a 2020 RT Limited. I brought up the subject of tires, and specifically whether they would mount car tires on my Spyder for me. The service tech response was "we could mount them, but we would then have to fail the bike on inspection because under PA law a motorcycle must have motorcycle-specific tires". I haven't done any research to confirm his statement, but I now wonder if there are any other Pennsylvania Spyder owners who have encountered this? I ended up not pulling the trigger due to dissatisfaction with the dealer's pricing relative to my trade-in bike. I may just wait and sell my bike outright and try for a clean deal later.
It's been 5 years since I lived in PA but at that time I went to an independent motorcycle shop for inspection and had a car tire on the rear. I said nothing about it and our RT passed state inspection. No state inspection in Nevada.
2016 F3 Limited
2019 Ryker Rally
2014 Suzuki V Strom 650
2020 CSC TT 250
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by troop
From my 2019 F3-S owners manual. I think BRP is being pretty specific with the second sentence. Still gonna buy some Vredestein fronts next week
The tires have been specifically designed for this vehicle. Use only the
BRP recommended radial tires, which
can be ordered only from an authorized
Can-Am On-Road dealer.
Read post #40 from JC …. there is hugh difference between " MUST " & " Recommended " ……. the same goes for the GAS statements by BRP ……. PS, the Quatrac 5 is a great tire and will give the best performance at about 17 psi for the fronts ….. Mike
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by japgen
Yesterday I visited my local Spyder dealer to discuss options and pricing for a 2020 RT Limited. I brought up the subject of tires, and specifically whether they would mount car tires on my Spyder for me. The service tech response was "we could mount them, but we would then have to fail the bike on inspection because under PA law a motorcycle must have motorcycle-specific tires". I haven't done any research to confirm his statement, but I now wonder if there are any other Pennsylvania Spyder owners who have encountered this? I ended up not pulling the trigger due to dissatisfaction with the dealer's pricing relative to my trade-in bike. I may just wait and sell my bike outright and try for a clean deal later.
Guess what - - ALL - the Harley TRIKES are delivered with AUTO tires mounted on them ….Why - because the wheels /rims are " J " type ( same as your Spyders )….. NOT motorcycle wheels …... Last I looked they were " DUNLOP Auto tires " …. Mike
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The original tires on my 2012 were toast by 7k on the rear, around 9 on the front.
General RT43's were installed. Improved handling, smoother ride, and less worry were the end result. Rain? Fuggettaboudit... raise the windscreen, heat the grips, and roll on.
There is a market here. Vee failed us with the Arachnid offer, it's just a clone of the Kenda's. No better, but no worse.
I don't think CanAm will change, the vehicle is certified and marketed in it's current form. And the replacement tire market from them is probably booming with those afraid or deterred because of info that is out there and parroted by sales and service.
Why the major M/C tire manufacturers, ie. Michelin, Dunlop, Pirelli, shoot even Shinko miss this market escapes me.
My new 19 will get some type of robust auto tire when the time comes.
But I am a rebel... Always ran straight 40 weight in the 2012. That worked too.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by troop
From my 2019 F3-S owners manual. I think BRP is being pretty specific with the second sentence. Still gonna buy some Vredestein fronts next week
The tires have been specifically designed for this vehicle. Use only the
BRP recommended radial tires, which
can be ordered only from an authorized
Can-Am On-Road dealer.
As I said. Recommended. Not required and no use of the word shall.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by japgen
Yesterday I visited my local Spyder dealer to discuss options and pricing for a 2020 RT Limited. I brought up the subject of tires, and specifically whether they would mount car tires on my Spyder for me. The service tech response was "we could mount them, but we would then have to fail the bike on inspection because under PA law a motorcycle must have motorcycle-specific tires". I haven't done any research to confirm his statement, but I now wonder if there are any other Pennsylvania Spyder owners who have encountered this? I ended up not pulling the trigger due to dissatisfaction with the dealer's pricing relative to my trade-in bike. I may just wait and sell my bike outright and try for a clean deal later.
Then they would have to fail all Spyders as Spyders have SAE J profile automotive rims and cannot mount motorcycle tires. IE the statement is not true and they mis-understand the requirement in the favor of selling you tires you do not otherwise want.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911
Read post #40 from JC …. there is hugh difference between " MUST " & " Recommended " ……. the same goes for the GAS statements by BRP ……. PS, the Quatrac 5 is a great tire and will give the best performance at about 17 psi for the fronts ….. Mike
Thanks Mike. I would like to try the Quatrac fronts but have been unable to find matching rear to go with them that is appropriate for the Spyder. I much prefer matched brand tires front and rear but realize its a personal preference.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by jcthorne
Thanks Mike. I would like to try the Quatrac fronts but have been unable to find matching rear to go with them that is appropriate for the Spyder. I much prefer matched brand tires front and rear but realize its a personal preference.
The Quatrac 5 ( when I first found them ) came in a 215/60 -15 ( for the rear ), but for some reason none of the currant sellers have them .... the good news is you can get them in 205/60 & 205/65 - 15's and either size will work with all Spyders. I know we differ in what we use for PSI's, but myself ( and many others here using them ) say they like them at 17-18 psi.... I won't ever recommend something that isn't best, good luck .... Mike
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