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Thread: F3 limited

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    Default F3 limited

    Will adjusting the front shocks alter wheel alignment?
    My 2018 F3 Limited sits very low in the front. Much lower than my friends F3 limited. Both spyders shocks adj nuts are in the same the location. the bottom of the nose on his is 3.75 in from ground. Mine is 2 3/8 in..i have to be very careful of high areas.
    Don't see why mine is so low. His is a 2017 F3 limited.
    Any ideas?

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    Very Active Member RICZ's Avatar
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    Following.
    Ours is a red, black and chrome 2017 F3 Limited. Bought new in 2/2019. The avatar is my first bike back in 1952, a Simplex Servi-Cycle. Photo taken at the Barber Museum.
    2017 F3 Limited , Red, Black & Chrome

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    Very Active Member bmccaffrey's Avatar
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    Following also

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    Very Active Member Tango's Avatar
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    Hopefully the Captain will see this and respond. He's an alignment guru here. Tom
    Baloo is my name. Spyders are my game. Well, it's a doo-bah-dee-doo, yes, it's a doo-bah-dee-doo, I mean a doo-bee, doo-bee, doo-bee, doo-bee, doo-bee-dee-doo. And, well, now. Ha ha! What have we here?



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    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AsphaltEagle View Post
    ...... My 2018 F3 Limited sits very low in the front. Much lower than my friends F3 limited. ........
    Any ideas?
    Does yours have a 2-up rear shock while his doesn't? Any other rear suspension differences?? Raising the rear on these things can make the nose/pointy end lower....

    As for adjusting the front shocks, YES, doing that will alter the front wheel alignment; but it'll probably only impact the toe in-out alignment 'a little' & that's fairly easily corrected by someone like CaptJim from Squared Away. However, raising the front end too much will definitely alter the Camber Angle and there's no easy way to fix that!

    Still, it really sounds like there might be something else going on up front to cause your Spyder's ryde height problem, and that is really what needs to be identified. Maybe it's just that your shocks/springs aren't up to the load you & your machine have put on them; or maybe they were just too light from the factory - possibly they're a dud set that didn't ever get 'set' correctly to carry the load at the specified ryde height?! If you can't get all this resolved under warranty, then you might need to look into fitting heavier/better (& potentially expensive) A/mkt springs & shocks, but I'd be chasing the warranty approach first!

    Good Luck
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    SpyderLovers Sponsor merlot's Avatar
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    as pete says raising or lowering the shock will affect camber......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSFmUmVWBp0

    your wheel should be at 90deg to the ground(or close to it)

    you can check it with a big square off a flat surface(or just eyeball it)

    my 2016 sits up 4 1/2 inches off the ground

    both your bikes seem too low

    if nothing is wrong then your wheels will be laying in at the tops(-ve camber?)eg. shock has been wound down

    yours should be worse than your mates(both bikes will wear the inner edge of the tyres)

    if you wind the shock up to get the camber right then just remember...adjusting the left shock affects camber on the right wheel, and vica versa (ask me how i know....i messed around for ages til i found that out)

    or just wind them both up the same amount

    then once you get the height correct,and the camber(as they are both connected),take it in for alignment

    this is what mine looks like at 4 1/2 inches ground clearance




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    Very Active Member Mikey's Avatar
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    Is your bike older than your friends, have you owned yours from new? Every shock is a charged unit, may be your shock have lost it, or some of it! And they are sitting more on your spring! When you put your hand on the front of the bike, and push down on it, dose it have a little bounce at the top! Or like Peter was saying maybe there's some thing going on different in the rear tipping the nose down!
    2012 RTL , Pearl

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    Very Active Member RICZ's Avatar
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    Merlot....When you say "winding the shock up" is that tightening the spring....or?
    Ours is a red, black and chrome 2017 F3 Limited. Bought new in 2/2019. The avatar is my first bike back in 1952, a Simplex Servi-Cycle. Photo taken at the Barber Museum.
    2017 F3 Limited , Red, Black & Chrome

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    Very Active Member Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICZ View Post
    Merlot....When you say "winding the shock up" is that tightening the spring....or?
    Yes It will tighten the spring!
    2012 RTL , Pearl

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    Very Active Member Highwayman2013's Avatar
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    I ran my front preload all the way up. I may have gained 3/4 to 1" of additional clearance. I cannot tell any change in alignment by riding it. I got tired of bottoming out going into gas stations and driveways.
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    Very Active Member troop's Avatar
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    I bought/installed the occasional two up shock when I purchased my F3-S. After I installed the shock, I ramped up the front shock preload a few turns so they're 50% tighter than OEM. Still have a few turns before fully compressed. I'm not going to tighten them up any more, as I'll be installing a stiffer swaybar over the winter. I'll get it laser aligned once the swaybar is on and I have the front shocks dialed in.


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    Very Active Member Peteoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    Yes It will tighten the spring!
    Mikey, I know very little about shocks, but wouldn’t winding the shock UP be loosening the spring, elongating the shock and thus raising the body at rest, while winding the shock down would tighten the spring and lower the body?

    Pete
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    SpyderLovers Sponsor merlot's Avatar
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    when you wind the spring up,you are not compressing the spring
    what you are doing is elongating the shock so that the bike sits higher

    the spring is taking the weight of the bike and this dosent change so spring compression dosent change no matter what you do

    to stiffen the front you need heavier spring or take a coil out of the equation(doc humphries insert)

    to raise the front(set static sag) simply wind the spring up which makes the shock longer(compressed spring length remains unchanged)

    the trade off here is you must be aware of changes to the camber(i aim for 90 degrees)

    BUT...if you're a heavy guy using the wrong spring,the the "dynamic sag"(when you sit on the bike) may still set the bike too low,so no ground clearance still
    in this case you fit a heavier duty spring then reset static sag(the height of the bike)




    to answer the OP original question"does winding shock up affect alignment?
    i set alignment for a real man(140kg) and gave his bike 3mm toe in unloaded
    when he sat on the bike i took another shot and got 1.5mm toe in

    so yes...lowering the bike causes the front wheels to splay out(toe out)

    i now only set bikes with the punter on board and aim for around 1.5mm toe in


    Ashphalt Eagle
    you need to wind your shocks up(noting camber)then take it to someone who knows front ends(Squared Away?) and get a proper alignment
    but get the height right first

    russ



    ADD. i just had a look at my front shocks(only had this bike a week) and there dosent seem to be much adjustment on these shocks(not like the Elkas)

    if you cant adjust height enough then i would say the spring is too weak(sagged)and you may need new springs
    pres ride
    2014 RT-S
    bike is WIP
    bike has endured elect spike (was jump started incorrectly)
    still a WIP but bike is now running and registered....swapped out 5 modules mostly sourced from Canadian wrecker

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    Very Active Member Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlot View Post
    when you wind the spring up,you are not compressing the spring
    what you are doing is elongating the shock so that the bike sits higher

    the spring is taking the weight of the bike and this dosent change so spring compression dosent change no matter what you do

    to stiffen the front you need heavier spring or take a coil out of the equation(doc humphries insert)

    to raise the front(set static sag) simply wind the spring up which makes the shock longer(compressed spring length remains unchanged)

    the trade off here is you must be aware of changes to the camber(i aim for 90 degrees)

    BUT...if you're a heavy guy using the wrong spring,the the "dynamic sag"(when you sit on the bike) may still set the bike too low,so no ground clearance still
    in this case you fit a heavier duty spring then reset static sag(the height of the bike)




    to answer the OP original question"does winding shock up affect alignment?
    i set alignment for a real man(140kg) and gave his bike 3mm toe in unloaded
    when he sat on the bike i took another shot and got 1.5mm toe in

    so yes...lowering the bike causes the front wheels to splay out(toe out)

    i now only set bikes with the punter on board and aim for around 1.5mm toe in


    Ashphalt Eagle
    you need to wind your shocks up(noting camber)then take it to someone who knows front ends(Squared Away?) and get a proper alignment
    but get the height right first

    russ



    ADD. i just had a look at my front shocks(only had this bike a week) and there dosent seem to be much adjustment on these shocks(not like the Elkas)

    if you cant adjust height enough then i would say the spring is too weak(sagged)and you may need new springs
    When you put more pressure on the spring you are basically stiffing the spring, when you want more pressure out of a spring then you would put one of Doc's cheater in and get the same effect, or get a spring with a higher load value! You can only stretch a shock till it hit the end and cant go any further! If you need to get taller you have to get a shock that is longer end to end! We may be saying roughly the same thing, but like you said, if you don't have the load on the bike(rider) then you are just adjusting for the load of the bike then what do you have then, you sit on it and it go's to hell!!
    2012 RTL , Pearl

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    Very Active Member AY4B's Avatar
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    Your Spyder needs to be around 4 inches off the ground. Tightening the springs will raise it up. If you are heavey like I am you need heavier springs. Elka sent me heavier springs and I installed them myself. once I got them on I tightened them up by feel, turning the nut that tightens up the spring to where I had good contact on both springs. I then guessed I needed X amount of turns on each spring. Installed them, set the front end down and measures my clearance. I kept raising it back up to add more turns till I got the 4 " clearance. It should work the same with the stock shocks.
    2017 F3 Limited
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    I weigh about 220. I measured ground to nose distance sitting level with no weight on bike. My 2018 limited with 5000 miles is about 1 inch lower than my buddies 2017 limited measured the same way.
    Btw, i never ride single, wife always with me. So now not sure if i should run the shock nuts up or not. No where around here to have alignment done.

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    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    Is it still under warranty? If so, then I reckon that a visit to a dealer should probably be your first step. Maybe you could check on the unladen ryde height of a few other F3's while you were there?? Worth a shot, isn't it? At tthe very least they should be able to tell you if your Spyder's ryde height is within spec?! Good Luck!
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    SpyderLovers Sponsor merlot's Avatar
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    yes ...run the nuts up (unless your wheels are already at 90deg to the road)

    alignment will be affected minimally

    get alignment when you can but dont worry over it(the later models are fairly close now)

    russ
    pres ride
    2014 RT-S
    bike is WIP
    bike has endured elect spike (was jump started incorrectly)
    still a WIP but bike is now running and registered....swapped out 5 modules mostly sourced from Canadian wrecker

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    Very Active Member troop's Avatar
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    Hmmm.. Totally spaced out the forward weight shift I gained from installing the occasional two up shock. Being a 235/geared guy, I'll likely ramp up the shock nuts all the way. I'll be curious to see how the bike handles come spring with an upgraded swaybar and Q5 front tires installed. I will get it laser aligned come spring.


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