Mobile 1 4T motorcycle oil 1st Gear SE6 clutch slipping

[PMK]

I have never taken Amsoil serious, right or wrong I consider them an Amway subsidy.

I often considered that, but the last look at oil ratings did show some Amsoil types had been tested with favorable results. Simply time will see if the moto oils do get tested. At that point it will be interesting to see how they compare.

While popular and likely good, Shell Rotella T6 rates lower than Mobil 1 Sportbike 10w40. Therefore that is what I prefer to use.

[PMK]

PPM of Iron in the Oil has much to do with the Micron rating of the Filter, and how many ounces of particulate the Filter will hold, before becoming fully loaded. Also, the Quality of the Filter makes a big difference, as well, and no by passing of the filter element is occurring once the filter is loaded. I know my Harley Filter is a 20 Micron Filter, but I am uncertain what the Spyder Filters are. Remember on our 998 V-Twin Spyder engines, the Owner Manuals had us changing the Oil and filter every 3,000 miles. On my 2012, I did 5-6 Oil and filter changes every 3,000 miles. Then, BRP decided we could go 4,600 miles, on Oil changes, but they increased the size of the Filter, so it would hold more particulate before loading , and not filtering the iron and particulate from the oil. Most likely, a lot of the particulate comes from the clutch discs, as well as the tranny gears. So, if iron is being checked after the Filter is plugged, then more iron in the oil after more miles, is not necessarily the oil breaking down, but the Filter plugging up . Also, using full a Synthetic Oil VS. Blends, that are lucky to contain even 10% Synthetics, also is a no brainer, for any one that has experimented using them both.
007James

All valid and true points, however this report is in regards to a 1330 triple, not the V Twin, and the oil / filter change interval is not being exceeded.

[007james]

My reply was to question the durability of the Oil Filter, not the Oil. The 9300 miles Oil change recommended by BRP, on the 1330 Engines, was with using their standard Blend oil, not full synthetic Multigrade Oils. Also, they must have tested their own filter with the standard Blend, so
in order to get a much more revealing Test, different Quality Oil Filters, with different Micron ratings, as well as various filter fabric materials, O- Rings, should be used , and even with out changing the present filter design, my best guess is, that using Mobil 1 4T full Synthetic Racing Oil will not show much difference at 12,000 miles, than BRP’s recommenced 9300 using using standard blend oil.
007James

All valid and true points, however this report is in regards to a 1330 triple, not the V Twin, and the oil / filter change interval is not being exceeded.

[PMK]

My reply was to question the durability of the Oil Filter, not the Oil. The 9300 miles Oil change recommended by BRP, on the 1330 Engines, was with using their standard Blend oil, not full synthetic Multigrade Oils. Also, they must have tested their own filter with the standard Blend, so
in order to get a much more revealing Test, different Quality Oil Filters, with different Micron ratings, as well as various filter fabric materials, O- Rings, should be used , and even with out changing the present filter design, my best guess is, that using Mobil 1 4T full Synthetic Racing Oil will not show much difference at 12,000 miles, than BRP’s recommenced 9300 using using standard blend oil.
007James

Yeah but, the guy with high iron ppm levels had previously been using Mobil 1 Sportbike oil and switched to Amsoil and the iron levels increased, but has been basing his oils capability, and possibly change interval, on how well the viscosity is holding up.

[JayBros]

Regarding his last three oil analysis, my opinion is the levels are trending upward. I did a quick Google search for what is deemed unacceptable iron ppm amounts and it appears 200 ppm and above is cause for concern....

Thanks for posting the 200 ppm number. I noted the increasing Fe contamination but didn't know the concern number and knew that if the analysis did exceed it the report would have said so.

Forgot to mention in original post that when I replaced spark plugs at 56K service the old ones were clean as a whistle and could probably gone on for a good number of more miles

At my age, if the Spyder continues to perform as it has for the last five years and 63K miles I hope to get at least another five out of it and hopefully more. It may wind up my last motorcycle.

[PMK]

Thanks for posting the 200 ppm number. I noted the increasing Fe contamination but didn't know the concern number and knew that if the analysis did exceed it the report would have said so.

At my age, if the Spyder continues to perform as it has for the last five years and 63K miles I hope to get at least another five out of it and hopefully more. It may wind up my last motorcycle.

If it were me, I would do the next sample at a similar mileage you were testing the M1 at. Then compare.

[Mikey]

And the beat go's on, and on!!! Breath boys, breath!!!

[007james]

PMK,...there are so very many, unstable, CHANGING variables, in testing ANY Liquid, including Oils for impurities, at any duration of time, miles, hours, etc., that the promotions of certain Oils, like Amsoil and Mobil 1 will never become Science. Among the many Filtration Systems I was involved with, during my Career in my past life, one of the Products was a Portable Oil Reclamation Filtration, / Oil Water Separation System. In the thousands of tests we did on all sorts of oils, in Elevators, Industrial Hydraulic presses, etc., the test results most always came back different . Operators lie thru their teeth, and never tell the truth of exactly what they did different to the Oils each time. Spyder Drivers are just a different Breed of Operators. HaHa. Here is a Link to an Article I wrote when I was in the Filtration and Pump Business. Scroll to the Filters section, to sample a small taste of the possible variables, which no doubt, applies to testing Oils in the 1330 Spyder engine as well.
https://www.pfonline.com/articles/ch...ps-and-filters
007James

If it were me, I would do the next sample at a similar mileage you were testing the M1 at. Then compare.

[Highwayman2013]

My reply was to question the durability of the Oil Filter, not the Oil. The 9300 miles Oil change recommended by BRP, on the 1330 Engines, was with using their standard Blend oil, not full synthetic Multigrade Oils. Also, they must have tested their own filter with the standard Blend, so
in order to get a much more revealing Test, different Quality Oil Filters, with different Micron ratings, as well as various filter fabric materials, O- Rings, should be used , and even with out changing the present filter design, my best guess is, that using Mobil 1 4T full Synthetic Racing Oil will not show much difference at 12,000 miles, than BRP’s recommenced 9300 using using standard blend oil.
007James

As to oil filters I ran the Mobil 1 with the BRP filter and the Amsoil with the Hi Flo filter from Bajaron. Still I did get 6 more ppm of Iron. The Mobil1 definitely breaks down quicker than Amsoil as shown by my tests. The earlier loss of viscosity shocked me on the Mobil 1. Not saying its a bad oil but Amsoil holds up better.

[Highwayman2013]

If it were me, I would do the next sample at a similar mileage you were testing the M1 at. Then compare.

Did you look at my tests? I ran Amsoil 1,000 miles further than Mobil 1 and the Amsoil held up better.

[Highwayman2013]

Very true! It is also possible to be bearing material or improper sampling or even atmospheric conditions. My personal opinion is that oil analysis is similar to a dynamometer, just a tool or piece in assembling a complex puzzle.

Bearing material is lead or copper.

[Sputter]

Bearing material is lead or copper.

Actually they contain many materials, Babbit, Zinc, Tin and other alloys!

[Sputter]

All valid and true points, however this report is in regards to a 1330 triple, not the V Twin, and the oil / filter change interval is not being exceeded.

I do know from the automobile industry that oil change intervals are heavily influenced by the EPA!

[PMK]

Did you look at my tests? I ran Amsoil 1,000 miles further than Mobil 1 and the Amsoil held up better.

I have seen your tests and others also. My opinion, for what little value it has, does not let me use just the parameter of viscosity degradation as a basis to make an oil good or bad to use.

The function of the oil is to provide lubrication. From years of working on and building suspension components, I found that the suspension fluids, essentially oils, that had the best durability against shearing and lessening of viscosity, also were some of the worst in regards to lubricity.

In the Spyder, the gearbox and clutch action are the only indicators we can actually feel regarding lubricity.

Regarding lessening of viscosity over time, mainly based on the gearbox shredding the oil molecules, as miles on the oil increases, the gearbox and clutch are less smooth.

Both lubricity and viscosity are important.

If and when the source I use for evaluating oil ever tests Amsoil moto oil, then I will have something I can compare to other oils, as the tests are standardized, repeatable, and fully independent.

Regarding the oil change interval I go with, I use 5000 miles. At that mileage the viscosity is not degrading a significant amount, and based on calendar time, it is due.

[troop]

Dividing time between two bikes, I'll never see a 9300 mile oil interval. My Spyder will likely accumulate, at most, around 6k miles/season. Of those miles, 2k will likely be freeway miles from trips. Not a lot of stress on the oil from that. Not worried about the M1 4T losing effectiveness from that type of usage. Oil/filter is dumped/refilled every late Oct/early Nov here in WI...

[Gwolf]

I am changing the oil and filter every 5,000 miles just like I always have. It never hurts to change it more often than called for in the manual. I take the used oil in to the auto parts place that has a collection drum so the old oil is picked up and recycled. Few dollars extra to change the oil twice a year is not gonna do any harm to the bank account or the environment. I keep several cases of oil and extra filters in the shop. Changing the oil and doing the spot checks on the items on the maintenance list might take two hours at most.

[troop]

I am changing the oil and filter every 5,000 miles just like I always have. It never hurts to change it more often than called for in the manual. I take the used oil in to the auto parts place that has a collection drum so the old oil is picked up and recycled. Few dollars extra to change the oil twice a year is not gonna do any harm to the bank account or the environment. I keep several cases of oil and extra filters in the shop. Changing the oil and doing the spot checks on the items on the maintenance list might take two hours at most.

Changing oil/filter every 5k miles is not a bad thing to do. That said, you live in Florida, where you can ride year round and can change the oil/filter anytime. I live in WI, where Dec-Mar is cold/snowy/salt covered roads. Say I have a low mile season of 5k miles. I'll do the oil change in November, near my storage time. Say I have a higher than average year, and have 5k miles on it come mid August. I change the oil/filter. Now, come Nov 01 and I have approx 2k miles on that oil. Do you change it, or take the machine for a nice long drive with fresh 100% gas/stabilizer and get the oil nice/hot and store away? I know I'm not dumping out 5.5 quarts of perfectly good M1/Amsoil at 2k miles. That's just me ....

[BajaRon]

Without going back through all of this thread. Didn't the increase in iron ppm coincide with an increase in water content in the same sample? If true. Seems to me that there might be a correlation between there.

[PMK]

Without going back through all of this thread. Didn't the increase in iron ppm coincide with an increase in water content in the same sample? If true. Seems to me that there might be a correlation between there.

Yes and no. He had the first Amsoil sample showing too much water / condensation. There were two analysis accomplished thereafter, each with elevated or increasing iron amounts.