I ran Mobil 4T Racing 10W-40 full synthetic oil for 19,000+ miles changing it every 6,000 or so but switched to Amsoil because the Mobil viscosity sheared down to 20 weight but gave me absolutely no problems and did shift smoother than BRP's synthetic blend. Have been using Amsoil Metric 10W-40 fully synthetic since 26K on the clock changing it at 9,300 and having it analyzed. It routinely gives 40 wt performance in the cSt 100 scale at the 9,300 distance.
I did back to back oil analysis on the Mobil 1 and the Amsoil and can confirm the Amsoil is still a 40 weight at 9,666 miles while the Mobil 1 was a 30 weight at 8,600 miles in our 2016 F3l.
Mikey,
I use Valvoline Full Synthetic Motorcycle Oil 10 W-40. This oil is "Ultimate Wet Clutch Transmission & Engine Protection"
1. Formulated for specific needs for high performance 4 stoke, motorcycles, including high temperatures, and WET CLUTCH Systems.
2. Full Synthetic formula for the ultimate protection against wear, deposits and corrosion that can decrease engine performance.
3. Outstanding wet clutch protection for maximum power and transfer & smooth shifting.
Meets or Exceeds JASO MA2 API SL
Also, Developed with advanced additives to resist oil thickening and maximize horsepower.
I have use the above oil for 4 years, until present. I haven't had any problems. I have a 2014 RTS-SE6.
I have the dealership change the oil when the spyder is in hibernation. ( Oct. April).
Deanna
Current Spyder - 2023 F3 LTD Special Mineral Blue
Red LED NANO Saddlebag Marker Lights with Full Illumination
Sequential Fender LED'S (Amber/Red) with Safety Reflector
Dual Power Plate (12 V & USB ports)
Gremlin Bell
Rear Trunk Organizer (4 holders, 2 Elastic Holders)
Lamonster "Top Cuff" with adjustable drink Holder
SpyderPops Missing Guard Belt
Console Accent Trim (Carbon Fiber Domed Black)
Ultimate F3 Floorboards
Front Fairing Service Access Door Covers (Carbon Fiber Doomed Black)
Sway Bar with Links
Rolo Laser Alignment
Half Cover
A-Arm Daytime Dual Color LED Running Lights with Blinker Module
Hi-Viz DRL and Sequential Mirrors lights
Attached below is the analysis record for my Spyder. Please note in the analysis reported 2 Apr 18 the water content was listed at 0.72% which prevented a physical viscosity test. I contacted the lab about the report and the technician I spoke with said the increased water percentage was due to condensation in the oil that was the result of me not running the engine long enough to get the oil to proper temperature. Yes, it was my fault because I was not riding the bike far enough each morning going to and from the gym. The subsequent analyses showed the Amsoil held its viscosity very well into the 9,000 mile range. My next oil change is due in about 1,300 miles. The learning points for me:
a. Since my bike is pretty much my daily transportation, don't use my Spyder for short ride trips during winter months. My winter route one way distance to the gym became 20 miles.
b. The Mobil 1 held its viscosity at shorter intervals but I made the switch because I wanted to run it the full 9,300 but didn't really know if it would go the full 9,300 and still retain 40 weight viscosity. Maybe, maybe not. With the demonstrated performance of the Amsoil I see no reason to switch back to Mobil 1.
Artillery lends dignity to what would
otherwise be a vulgar brawl.
****************************** Cognac 2014 RT-S
Ahhhh.. That was your post on BITOG. I wonder how shear stability varies from SE6 > SM6 transmissions? Rotella T 5w40 is notorious for shearing down in shared sump m/c use. The joys of oil debates https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...mo#Post5190282
I have accumulated a fair number of oil analysis. People send me copies because they know it interests me. There doesn't seem to be any significant difference between any of the engines or configurations. I'd say that riding style makes more difference. The 998 and the 1330 (both SE and SM models) seem to do test with about the same results with both the BRP oil and Amsoil (the 2 oils I have the greatest number of test results for). In other words. BRP oil tested about the same with both engines and Amsoil tested out about the same with both engines. I would have thought the 1330 with more HP and Torque would degrade the oil sooner than the 998. But it didn't work out that way. I am guessing that the gears have more surface contact area on the 1330 engine and thus the pressure per square inch may be about the same. It is the transmission that destroys the oil. Not the engine.
Typically, the BRP oil begins to shear at about 4,500 miles and gets down to 20 weight at around 5,500 miles. It then stabilizes at 20 weight until changed. Even when going 10,000 miles. Amsoil tends to start showing a slight reduction in viscosity around 7,000 miles and tests out in the mid 30's at around 10,000 miles. There is, of course, some variation. But not as much as you'd think.
Myself and most folks I know use Mobil 1 V Twin 20/50 for all lubrication needs in our Harleys, as well as most dealers!
you should try the mobil 1 syn 75/90 gear lube in the tranny, in my last 88, 96 and current 103 it shifts smoother than the 20/50 v twin oil, especially when its hot.
Attached below is the analysis record for my Spyder. Please note in the analysis reported 2 Apr 18 the water content was listed at 0.72% which prevented a physical viscosity test. I contacted the lab about the report and the technician I spoke with said the increased water percentage was due to condensation in the oil that was the result of me not running the engine long enough to get the oil to proper temperature. Yes, it was my fault because I was not riding the bike far enough each morning going to and from the gym. The subsequent analyses showed the Amsoil held its viscosity very well into the 9,000 mile range. My next oil change is due in about 1,300 miles. The learning points for me:
a. Since my bike is pretty much my daily transportation, don't use my Spyder for short ride trips during winter months. My winter route one way distance to the gym became 20 miles.
b. The Mobil 1 held its viscosity at shorter intervals but I made the switch because I wanted to run it the full 9,300 but didn't really know if it would go the full 9,300 and still retain 40 weight viscosity. Maybe, maybe not. With the demonstrated performance of the Amsoil I see no reason to switch back to Mobil 1.
Any details on why the Iron contamination is 5 times worse with Amsoil vs Mobil 1?
Never fail to realize that while viscosity retention over time is important, lubricity is even more critical. The elevating Iron amounts would be a concern to me. In Nikasil cylinders, often that can be piston ring wear.
Y'all worry too much. Back in the 60s I was riding Japanese Sport bikes with integral crankcase and gearbox. They all had wet clutch. Nobody ever heard of any special oil just for motorcyles. Didn't have no Internet so we couldn't ask no questions. We just dumped 10W-40 car oil in them and rode the hell out of them. If a clutch blew out, it was because we was drag racing on any straight strip of country road we could find. Don't worry about it. Just dump the best oil you know of in it and ride hell out of it.
Y'all worry too much. Back in the 60s I was riding Japanese Sport bikes with integral crankcase and gearbox. They all had wet clutch. Nobody ever heard of any special oil just for motorcyles. Didn't have no Internet so we couldn't ask no questions. We just dumped 10W-40 car oil in them and rode the hell out of them. If a clutch blew out, it was because we was drag racing on any straight strip of country road we could find. Don't worry about it. Just dump the best oil you know of in it and ride hell out of it.
Gwolf, I was really only a young tacker, but I had the same experience - altho in all honesty, it's not really a fair statement, cos waaayy back then, NO oil had anything much in the way of friction modifiers added; so whatever oil you got, at its functional level, it was really pretty much all the same stuff!!
However, all that started changing big-time in the 70's.... oils (& a lot of other things too ) started to get heaps of esoteric stuff added, some of which helped make the oils 'slippery-er' Which was good for some things, like cars that got driven hard, or that only got driven once a week; just really not so good for motorcycles with wet clutches! As many of us learnt.... the hard way!
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 10-25-2019 at 06:35 PM.
Ok found it! Looks black and white! I just have too much history with Mobil 1 to change. Only oils I have used in 40 years are Mobil 1 and Valvoline in 4 strokes and Maxima and Klotz in 2 strokes. Quite a bit of drag racing, all Chevrolet engines, Suzuki engines in 4 stroke and Yamaha 2 strokes. Many engine teardowns to see oil effects. Only bearing damage was in early years from Pennzoil, had bearing damage on 2 big block Chevrolet engines, changed to Valvoline and never looked back. 13 years in the auto repair business, many years of drag racing and performance engines told me this, on a stock street driven vehicle its possible to exeed 100,000 miles and never change the oil just keep level up, I have seen it and the effects. I have seen the effects of 3,000 mile oil changes with many brands that look like new after 100,000 miles. In the mid 80s Toyota had a 22RE 4 cylinder turbo available in the pickup and 4 Runner, they were eating turbos due to oil coking in the turbo bearing and oil supply line. Some with low mileage in the teens. I had the 1985 pickup with some modifications and boost at 9lbs. I run the truck 38,000 miles then removed the modifications except the exhaust and sold it to my fathers best friend. I advised him to ONLY use Mobil 1 and he followed the recommendation. over 300,000 miles, original turbo and engine never opened. I cannot remember the exact mileage but I believe it was mid 300,000ish when he sold it. The most I push Mobil 1 in my everyday drivers is 5000 miles, I worry about the filters. Just my .02c!!
Any details on why the Iron contamination is 5 times worse with Amsoil vs Mobil 1?
Have no idea. With the engine and transmission using the same oil one can not rule out the trans gears contributing to Fe contamination. See this link for other possible engine sources and the Amsoil had been run many more miles than the Mobil 1: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/engin...alysis/http://. Engine still uses absolutely no oil, has no smoke in exhaust nor indications in pipes. Mileage has also improved a bit over the last year. It will be interesting to see what the next analysis says about Fe contamination.
Artillery lends dignity to what would
otherwise be a vulgar brawl.
****************************** Cognac 2014 RT-S
Attached below is the analysis record for my Spyder. Please note in the analysis reported 2 Apr 18 the water content was listed at 0.72% which prevented a physical viscosity test. I contacted the lab about the report and the technician I spoke with said the increased water percentage was due to condensation in the oil that was the result of me not running the engine long enough to get the oil to proper temperature. Yes, it was my fault because I was not riding the bike far enough each morning going to and from the gym. The subsequent analyses showed the Amsoil held its viscosity very well into the 9,000 mile range. My next oil change is due in about 1,300 miles. The learning points for me:
a. Since my bike is pretty much my daily transportation, don't use my Spyder for short ride trips during winter months. My winter route one way distance to the gym became 20 miles.
b. The Mobil 1 held its viscosity at shorter intervals but I made the switch because I wanted to run it the full 9,300 but didn't really know if it would go the full 9,300 and still retain 40 weight viscosity. Maybe, maybe not. With the demonstrated performance of the Amsoil I see no reason to switch back to Mobil 1.
I find the analyticals interesting as there are so many variables that affect the results. Air filter, temperature, humidity, fuel etc, very interesting.
Have no idea. With the engine and transmission using the same oil one can not rule out the trans gears contributing to Fe contamination. See this link for other possible engine sources and the Amsoil had been run many more miles than the Mobil 1: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/engin...alysis/http://. Engine still uses absolutely no oil, has no smoke in exhaust nor indications in pipes. Mileage has also improved a bit over the last year. It will be interesting to see what the next analysis says about Fe contamination.
Your link says could not be found
Happy TRAils/NSD
Paul
2012 RT L
AMA 25 years Life Member
TRA
PGR
Rhino Riders Plate #83
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Any details on why the Iron contamination is 5 times worse with Amsoil vs Mobil 1?
Never fail to realize that while viscosity retention over time is important, lubricity is even more critical. The elevating Iron amounts would be a concern to me. In Nikasil cylinders, often that can be piston ring wear.
Very true! It is also possible to be bearing material or improper sampling or even atmospheric conditions. My personal opinion is that oil analysis is similar to a dynamometer, just a tool or piece in assembling a complex puzzle.
you should try the mobil 1 syn 75/90 gear lube in the tranny, in my last 88, 96 and current 103 it shifts smoother than the 20/50 v twin oil, especially when its hot.
Yes! I have some to try, just didn't get to ride my Harleys this year as the weather was terrible. When we would get a nice day had to cut the grass. The thinner oil in the trans does cause a little sticking on the shift forks.
I have a complete work load for the winter if I can get myself going!
I also have some 75/140 to try in the front and rear of my truck.
Very true! It is also possible to be bearing material or improper sampling or even atmospheric conditions. My personal opinion is that oil analysis is similar to a dynamometer, just a tool or piece in assembling a complex puzzle.
True it is a tool of sorts. Having been involved with aircraft oil analysis on many different aircraft for a long time, certain items tend to stand out and / or have often got typical sources. Many times elevated silica is simply poor air filtration.
The iron being elevated would concern me though. Doubtful it is a ball bearing, and other bearings use a soft bearing material against steel. As mentioned could be gearbox related or piston rings.
The increase in iron, not the actual number but the comparison to previous results to me is quite a change. The owner states it may be mileage related. Which in that case I would collect and analyze a sample taken at similar mileage as the Mobil 1 that had lower iron amounts.
I would also inquire with the lab as to what they use for the above normal threshold for these engines, and see if they have ideas on why the iron increased as it did.
Sorry, try this one https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/ and then click the menu in the upper right corner of the page and select Engine Oil Analysis under the Oil Analysis topic section.
Artillery lends dignity to what would
otherwise be a vulgar brawl.
****************************** Cognac 2014 RT-S
Y'all worry too much. Back in the 60s I was riding Japanese Sport bikes with integral crankcase and gearbox. They all had wet clutch. Nobody ever heard of any special oil just for motorcyles. Didn't have no Internet so we couldn't ask no questions. We just dumped 10W-40 car oil in them and rode the hell out of them. If a clutch blew out, it was because we was drag racing on any straight strip of country road we could find. Don't worry about it. Just dump the best oil you know of in it and ride hell out of it.
Yup! The Rayolube wonders LOL!!! But back then those were $100.00 not $30,000? I believe most folks are more protective of their babies these days?
True it is a tool of sorts. Having been involved with aircraft oil analysis on many different aircraft for a long time, certain items tend to stand out and / or have often got typical sources. Many times elevated silica is simply poor air filtration.
The iron being elevated would concern me though. Doubtful it is a ball bearing, and other bearings use a soft bearing material against steel. As mentioned could be gearbox related or piston rings.
The increase in iron, not the actual number but the comparison to previous results to me is quite a change. The owner states it may be mileage related. Which in that case I would collect and analyze a sample taken at similar mileage as the Mobil 1 that had lower iron amounts.
I would also inquire with the lab as to what they use for the above normal threshold for these engines, and see if they have ideas on why the iron increased as it did.
The next analysis will tell if there is a trend? Yes indeed, aircraft are a much more refined animal. There is no margin for error. I was involved also, my father mostly, he was an A&P and rebuilt older Ceconite (hope I spelled that correct) covered aircraft and I painted them. I used to help him when I was very young into my late teens. I spent quite a bit of time sampling fuel, oil, checking plugs, removing mags for inspection and on and on. Note to the younger folks, spend as much time with your dad as you can, another topic all together!
The next analysis will tell if there is a trend? Yes indeed, aircraft are a much more refined animal. There is no margin for error. I was involved also, my father mostly, he was an A&P and rebuilt older Ceconite (hope I spelled that correct) covered aircraft and I painted them. I used to help him when I was very young into my late teens. I spent quite a bit of time sampling fuel, oil, checking plugs, removing mags for inspection and on and on. Note to the younger folks, spend as much time with your dad as you can, another topic all together!
Regarding his last three oil analysis, my opinion is the levels are trending upward. I did a quick Google search for what is deemed unacceptable iron ppm amounts and it appears 200 ppm and above is cause for concern.
Modern aircraft piston engines are very reliable, partially because the do not produce huge horsepower per cubic inch, and the bearing surfaces are quite large in surface area. Add to this, oil filters are opened and inspected by most shops, so visually a lot can be seen there.
I need to revisit the oil rating webpage I prefer and see if Amsoil moto oils have been tested yet.
Regarding his last three oil analysis, my opinion is the levels are trending upward. I did a quick Google search for what is deemed unacceptable iron ppm amounts and it appears 200 ppm and above is cause for concern.
Modern aircraft piston engines are very reliable, partially because the do not produce huge horsepower per cubic inch, and the bearing surfaces are quite large in surface area. Add to this, oil filters are opened and inspected by most shops, so visually a lot can be seen there.
I need to revisit the oil rating webpage I prefer and see if Amsoil moto oils have been tested yet.
I have never taken Amsoil serious, right or wrong I consider them an Amway subsidy.
PPM of Iron in the Oil has much to do with the Micron rating of the Filter, and how many ounces of particulate the Filter will hold, before becoming fully loaded. Also, the Quality of the Filter makes a big difference, as well, and no by passing of the filter element is occurring once the filter is loaded. I know my Harley Filter is a 20 Micron Filter, but I am uncertain what the Spyder Filters are. Remember on our 998 V-Twin Spyder engines, the Owner Manuals had us changing the Oil and filter every 3,000 miles. On my 2012, I did 5-6 Oil and filter changes every 3,000 miles. Then, BRP decided we could go 4,600 miles, on Oil changes, but they increased the size of the Filter, so it would hold more particulate before loading , and not filtering the iron and particulate from the oil. Most likely, a lot of the particulate comes from the clutch discs, as well as the tranny gears. So, if iron is being checked after the Filter is plugged, then more iron in the oil after more miles, is not necessarily the oil breaking down, but the Filter plugging up . Also, using full a Synthetic Oil VS. Blends, that are lucky to contain even 10% Synthetics, also is a no brainer, for any one that has experimented using them both.
007James
Originally Posted by PMK
Regarding his last three oil analysis, my opinion is the levels are trending upward. I did a quick Google search for what is deemed unacceptable iron ppm amounts and it appears 200 ppm and above is cause for concern.
Modern aircraft piston engines are very reliable, partially because the do not produce huge horsepower per cubic inch, and the bearing surfaces are quite large in surface area. Add to this, oil filters are opened and inspected by most shops, so visually a lot can be seen there.
I need to revisit the oil rating webpage I prefer and see if Amsoil moto oils have been tested yet.
Originally Posted by JayBros
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2015 rs
) started to get heaps of esoteric stuff added, some of which helped make the oils 'slippery-er' 
Which was good for some things, like cars that got driven hard, or that only got driven once a week; just really not so good for motorcycles with wet clutches! 
As many of us learnt.... the hard way! 
