Do watch his videos and find them quite informative. Thanks for the link....Still have to wonder about all the additives out there and the effects on each. Pretty much the same I would imagine....
Gene and Ilana De Laney Mt. Helix, California
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That was a cool clip and of coarse it will get the boys going and asking if a different stabilizer would change the out come of the test, bla bla bla! When Maine started the ethanol gas it was hell on wheels for a lot of us, our sleds, boats, mowers, any thing that had a small engine that may sit for a while or had a open vented tank system, it sucked!! The price of replacement carbs went down thro, I think, most of your small engine shops don't rebuild a carbs any more when you can by a new carb for what you use to buy a kit for!! I can remember my dad growing up, always ran his motors dry of gas when he was done using it at the end of season, and always used new fuel on the start of a new season! That worked then, and will work today!!! E10 gas don't have the shelf life like the old gas use to!!! All I know is when you have a system that works for you just stick with it, if it works don't change it!!!! Let the games begin!!!! P.S 10-4 on the av gas!!!!
Nothing new here. This information has been readily available for as long as the government has been pushing ethanol fuel. Which, (I know I'm a broken record on this) ethanol fuel costs more to make than straight gasoline.
Av-Gas - unfortunately, even if you wanted to pay for it, Av-Gas still has lead in it. Lead deposits will kill your Cat and O2 sensor among other problems.
F4 Customs SWCV, Ultimate, Lidlox, Adjustable Side Vents, Leather Like Grips, SS Grills, Centramatic, Garmin XT2, BajaRon Original Sway Bar w/ Lamonster links, P238
That was a cool clip and of coarse it will get the boys going and asking if a different stabilizer would change the out come of the test, bla bla bla! When Maine started the ethanol gas it was hell on wheels for a lot of us, our sleds, boats, mowers, any thing that had a small engine that may sit for a while or had a open vented tank system, it sucked!! The price of replacement carbs went down thro, I think, most of your small engine shops don't rebuild a carbs any more when you can by a new carb for what you use to buy a kit for!! I can remember my dad growing up, always ran his motors dry of gas when he was done using it at the end of season, and always used new fuel on the start of a new season! That worked then, and will work today!!! E10 gas don't have the shelf life like the old gas use to!!! All I know is when you have a system that works for you just stick with it, if it works don't change it!!!! Let the games begin!!!! P.S 10-4 on the av gas!!!!
…….Tell that to the BRP engineer who fixed / changed the NOT broken DESS module in 2014 ….. Mike
If the pump says 10% or less ethanol, the modern motorcycle engines are designed to use it and you won't have any problems with it. The older engines and some small engines such as generators, mowers, and some marine engines did have problems with ethanol because it deteriorated the hoses, o-rings, and other rubber products it came in contact with. Even modern engines with ethanol safe rubber products in the fuel system may have some problems with ethanol when they sit for long periods of time without being used. The ethanol tends to absorb water from the atmosphere. The ethanol will absorb water and then it may separate from the gasoline which will really cause problems. If the engine is used regular and refilled with fresh fuel the 10% ethanol gas should not cause a problem. If the vehicle is going into long term storage, it might be good to fill it the last few tanks with ethanol free gasoline and also add gas stabilizer to the tank.
Sorry Ron ethanol doesn’t cost more to make than gas, this is one of the tales everyone likes to keep saying and if heard enough they believe. As far as the video I can get a piece of aluminum from my junk pile that hasn’t been anywhere near fuel and it will look all pitted and corroded. In the past I’ve taken carbs apart from the 70’s that were junk and they never say any ethanol, I also have been stranded in the past with water in a carb before e10 was available, and with the water sitting in the bottom of my carb they were junk then.
" Bad gas " existed long before alcohol was added to our fuel. Underground tanks got all manner of matter in them. Remember the wooden sticks used to measure how much fuel was in the tanks????? We were also advised not to fuel up when the tanker truck was adding( mixing) with the fuel at the bottom of the tank. A hotted up 450 Honda I had was having fuel delivery problems and I finally diagnosed the problem to the petcock. Upon disassembly there was a large splinter from the measuring stick restricting fuel flow. Us older riders have lots of " stuff" in our fuel filters. And haven't diesel trucks use a water separator along with a filter for decades.
Lew L
Kaos----- Gone but not forgotten.
2014 RTS in Circuit Yellow, farkle-ing addiction down to once every few months. ECU FLASH IS GREAT.
Sorry Ron ethanol doesn’t cost more to make than gas, this is one of the tales everyone likes to keep saying and if heard enough they believe. As far as the video I can get a piece of aluminum from my junk pile that hasn’t been anywhere near fuel and it will look all pitted and corroded. In the past I’ve taken carbs apart from the 70’s that were junk and they never say any ethanol, I also have been stranded in the past with water in a carb before e10 was available, and with the water sitting in the bottom of my carb they were junk then.
This was a statement from a study done in 2009.
"Every time you make 1 gallon of ethanol, there is a net energy loss of 54,000 Btu." * Ethanol from corn costs about $1.74 per gallon to produce, compared with about 95 cents to produce a gallon of gasoline.'
I know you're going to want chapter and verse on this quote and that is fair. I will try to run this down when I have time.
This study did take into account the actual billions of dollars in subsidies to corn farmers. But it does not take into consideration what these subsidies do to the price of food, etc., or the cost of repairing damage to engines caused by ethanol fuel. Or the cost of redesigning newer vehicles to tolerate ethanol fuels.
There is the added factor that ethanol production has not reduced our dependence on fossil fuels as it takes a great deal of fossil fuel resources to produce the alcohol used in ethanol fuels. Granted prices have changed since 2009. But the relative amounts have remained fairly constant.
If you take a narrow view of the costs to make ethanol fuel, you can come to a lower cost as opposed to gasoline. But if you calculate the total cost from ground to consumer, gasoline is less expensive. And there is no argument that gasoline is more efficient (better MPG), more stable (lasts longer), and less damaging to engines.
If gas costs .95 cents to make why did someone post about the 110 race gas cost 7 bucks? You do realize that ethanol is 110 octane, if you want to compare straight across. Also a straight ethanol engine will put out more hp than a gas one, and I mean an engine built to run on ethanol not a gas engine burning ethanol. You can run a higher boost with ethanol than gas and not hole the piston and if you inject water hp goes up more.
If gas costs .95 cents to make why did someone post about the 110 race gas cost 7 bucks? You do realize that ethanol is 110 octane, if you want to compare straight across. Also a straight ethanol engine will put out more hp than a gas one, and I mean an engine built to run on ethanol not a gas engine burning ethanol. You can run a higher boost with ethanol than gas and not hole the piston and if you inject water hp goes up more.
Yeah, and the carb freezes on a twenty lap night heat race and if you don't drain the tank and keep the ethanol in a sealed container it will look like milk the next Saturday night from taking up water from the air. The blue flames coming out the exhaust do look cool at night.
If gas costs .95 cents to make why did someone post about the 110 race gas cost 7 bucks? You do realize that ethanol is 110 octane, if you want to compare straight across. Also a straight ethanol engine will put out more hp than a gas one, and I mean an engine built to run on ethanol not a gas engine burning ethanol. You can run a higher boost with ethanol than gas and not hole the piston and if you inject water hp goes up more.
A bit of an 'Apples and Oranges' comparison there. The $.95 cents was in 2009 and does not include transportation, markup for profit, taxes, and a number of other costs added to bring the product to market. These numbers were comparing raw production costs for a gallon of regular for each fuel type. Comparing these numbers to 2019 pricing of 110 octane racing fuel at the pump, is not a valid comparison. I don't think anyone is recommending using 110 racing fuel in a Spyder or Ryker. Higher octane does not produces more power. It simply increases the ignition temperature of the fuel mix and slows the burn rate for very high compression engines.
Yes, a specially designed or modified racing engine dumping tons of ethanol fuel into the cylinders will produce a great deal of HP. But comparing that to a daily driver or something that you can run on the street is also an unfair comparison. That racing engine might get 3 or 4 MPG. I don't think anyone is willing to go with that. And the life span on pure ethanol fuel is very short unless held in a sealed container where it cannot sponge up all the moisture it comes in contact with.
If you think ethanol fuel is the best way to go, that's fine. I do not have a problem with that. However, I would prefer that my tax dollars not be used to make ethanol fuel artificially less expensive at the pump. I would rather see both fuels compete on an equal footing. This would allow the consumer to make a fully informed choice as to which fuel they wanted to use. I think the honesty and transparency would be good for the consumer, and for America. Of course, this will not happen because everyone promoting ethanol fuel knows sales of that product would plummet if these 2 products were allowed to compete on equal footing. Straight gas just has too many advantages over ethanol.
I just wish I could get 92 octane non-ethanol fuel at a reasonable price. I CAN get non-ethanol 100 octane fuel at $7.00 a gallon--- 40 miles away.
Lew L
Yes, I was the one who mentioned non-ethanol 100 octane fuel at $7 /gal. Supply and demand. Is it better for 99.99% of the vehicles out there----- NO. Just for sh(ts and giggles I tried a tank full in my V-Max------ a waste of money. Would I put it in my with an ECU upgrade. ---No. But the local racers do love the availability of it. And the station that sells it loves the profit.
Oh---- how about the specific energy in BTU's compared between ethanol and gasoline??? 124,000 btu's /gal Vs. 84,000 btu's / gal. Carb jets the size of drain pipes.
This is almost a much fun as tire, oil , and air pressure threads
Kaos----- Gone but not forgotten.
2014 RTS in Circuit Yellow, farkle-ing addiction down to once every few months. ECU FLASH IS GREAT.
Anyone know how to actually test the ethanol content of fuel? I seem to remember back when all this corn stuff started that Hot Rod (I think) magazine put out something like in a 200 ml container, add 10 ml of water and 100 ml of fuel, agitate well and let sit for some hours. The 10 ml of water will pull the ethanol out, and any increase in the water interface can be easily seen and calculated as ethanol in the fuel. So with 10% ethanol, you start with 110 ml of level, and 10 ml of water, and end with 110 of level and 20 ml of water/ethanol mix at the bottom.
Reason I'm bringing this up is a couple of years ago an automotive type show went around the states testing what was actually in the ethanol blends, and even though it was (by law) supposed to be 10% or less, in some cases it was 40% or more. States without the fuel inspection agencies fared the worst.
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Originally Posted by Lew L
P.S 10-4 on the av gas!!!!
…… sad to say ….. wish things were different, but the Farmer Corn lobby is HUGE …… Mike 
with an ECU upgrade. ---No. But the local racers do love the availability of it. And the station that sells it loves the profit.
