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  1. #1
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    Question First Service at 600 miles?

    Recently purchased a 2019 F3L and the dealer recommended bringing it in for the first service at 600 miles. I asked why so early and he said they have found many vehicles have metal shavings on the oil drain plug due to engine break in and it is best to get those flushed out early. The rest of the maintenance is according to the schedule. Is my dealer full of it or have others found these shavings? Also, isn't that what the oil filter is for?

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    Very Active Member Mikey's Avatar
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    No he's not full of it, some have seen this! It would be good insurance to do what he's saying, after that you'll be good to go! Have fun, ride safe!!!
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    BRP recommends 3,000 miles for the first service. If it was necessary to change at 600 they would have left it at that (as in the 990 twins). Our previous 2014 RT had 84,000 miles on it when we trade it for the 2018 F3. I followed the oil change interval in the manual and never had a engine issue.

    Yes there will be shavings on the magnetic plug, but as you stated that is what the magnet and oil filter are designed for.

    Your Spyder and your money so do what you think best, but for me I will stick with what the factory recommends for mileage changes.
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    In this case the dealer does not know what they are talking about. I would look for a new dealer!
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    Active Member Chasinsparks's Avatar
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    That is the famous stating, did you buy from a place with M--- M--- as the name just curious. Your manual will tell you 3000 miles. When you figure the price of the service, if they can get a few people to fall for that that are making a killing.
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    If my dealership had suggested a 600 mile service, even after the book calls for it at 3,000 miles, I would have told him to throw that in for free. I bet he would change his mind about suggesting a service at 600 miles.
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    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    I don't mean to be contrary here. And of course it's just my opinion. I fully understand why someone would want to stick with the factory recommendations. Still, this dealer may well have a valid point from what we have seen on many Spyders.

    Quote Originally Posted by PW2013STL View Post
    BRP recommends 3,000 miles for the first service. If it was necessary to change at 600 they would have left it at that (as in the 990 twins).
    We could ask; Who at BRP makes this 3,000 mile initial service recommendation? We tend to assume that it is the engineers who make these critical decisions. But the truth is, this, many times, is not the case. There was a lot of pressure on BRP to extend and reduce service intervals on the Spyder. Is a 600 mile service 'Necessary'? Maybe not. Is it the better choice? It may well be.

    Quote Originally Posted by PW2013STL View Post
    Our previous 2014 RT had 84,000 miles on it when we trade it for the 2018 F3. I followed the oil change interval in the manual and never had a engine issue.
    Point taken. Yet, there is a difference between adequate and better. A difference between never having an issue and having an engine at peek performance. I don't think anyone here is saying that the 3,000 mile service is not adequate. Only asking if a 600 mile initial service might be a wise alternative.

    Quote Originally Posted by PW2013STL View Post
    Yes there will be shavings on the magnetic plug, but as you stated that is what the magnet and oil filter are designed for.
    Very true, and the reason for this discussion. What gets stuck on the magnet can be just a representation of the total amount of debris left in the engine during manufacture. And the magnet catches only Ferrous metals (steel & iron). There are a lot of other contaminants that don't get stuck to the magnet. Aluminum, copper, bronze, etc. Of course the filter will catch a lot of this. But even filters don't catch everything. There will be very fine particles which the filter cannot catch. A small amount of this is not a problem. The potentially large amount of these small particles from manufacture, not so good.

    We are so careful to make sure not a speck of dirt or contaminant falls into the oil fill hole when doing a service. Would it be such a bad idea to get the very serious volume of contaminants that we know are there from the factory, out?

    Quote Originally Posted by PW2013STL View Post
    Your Spyder and your money so do what you think best, but for me I will stick with what the factory recommends for mileage changes.
    What we are discussing here is the possible benefits of just 1 initial oil service over the life of the vehicle. And you are 100% correct about each one making their own decision. Still, it is always best to consider all your options and weigh the possible benefits before making a choice. I commend this dealer for at least offering this reasonable option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chasinsparks View Post
    That is the famous stating, did you buy from a place with M--- M--- as the name just curious. Your manual will tell you 3000 miles. When you figure the price of the service, if they can get a few people to fall for that that are making a killing.
    What you say is something to consider. My feeling would be that this 600 mile service would be just a simple oil service instead of, not in addition to, the 3,000 mile service. Not the full 3,000 mile job. And I would not expect to do another engine oil service until the standard mileage service interval. Not sure what this dealer is proposing long term. But this would be reasonable and not add all that much to the overall expense. In other words. This dealerships recommendation is not necessarily a scam.
    Last edited by BajaRon; 10-15-2019 at 09:38 AM.
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    I'd get it done, in fact I'd have the initial oil out at before 300 miles. If you drain the oil and shine a bright light on it and stir it, you'll be amazed at the amount of very fine metal suspended in it, filtered or not! Nice grinding paste for the early miles of brake-in.

    The manufacturer doesn't necessarily work on what is best in ideal engineering terms but has to consider various other parameters when defining a schedule.
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    A very good discussion so far.

    BRP recommendation is 3,000 miles.

    V-twins were at 600 miles.

    We have not heard any reports of engine failure because of failure to perform the initial 3,000 mile service earlier. However, if something does indeed happen, it would have to be covered under warranty by BRP.

    An oil change service costs around $350 these days. Since the manual does not recommend it, I would not pay out the money for it. If the dealer wants to throw in a "freebie" because they are so concerned about the metal shavings, I would go for that.

    The 1330's are pretty good engines, and my 2014 with 35,000 miles still does not use a drop between oil changes, which are now every 9,300 miles or once a year....whichever happens first. Per the manual. The last three were once a year...next year...maybe at 9,000 miles or so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chasinsparks View Post
    That is the famous stating, did you buy from a place with M--- M--- as the name just curious. Your manual will tell you 3000 miles. When you figure the price of the service, if they can get a few people to fall for that that are making a killing.
    Yes, it was that dealer. Overall I was very happy with the dealer but I haven't had to use them for service yet. Have you had negative experience with that dealer or just know about the 600 mile recommendation.

    No idea this question would spark such good discussion. I think I will check with them to make sure it is just an oil change and get an estimate.

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    Along that line, what is the typical price range for the oil change service and the 3,000 mile service that people have seen?

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    Active Member Chasinsparks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaRon View Post
    I don't mean to be contrary here. And of course it's just my opinion. I fully understand why someone would want to stick with the factory recommendations. Still, this dealer may well have a valid point from what we have seen on many Spyders.



    We could ask; Who at BRP makes this 3,000 mile initial service recommendation? We tend to assume that it is the engineers who make these critical decisions. But the truth is, this, many times, is not the case. There was a lot of pressure on BRP to extend and reduce service intervals on the Spyder. Is a 600 mile service 'Necessary'? Maybe not. Is it the better choice? It may well be.



    Point taken. Yet, there is a difference between adequate and better. A difference between never having an issue and having an engine at peek performance. I don't think anyone here is saying that the 3,000 mile service is not adequate. Only asking if a 600 mile initial service might be a wise alternative.



    Very true, and the reason for this discussion. What gets stuck on the magnet can be just a representation of the total amount of debris left in the engine during manufacture. And the magnet catches only Ferrous metals (steel & iron). There are a lot of other contaminants that don't get stuck to the magnet. Aluminum, copper, bronze, etc. Of course the filter will catch a lot of this. But even filters don't catch everything. There will be very fine particles which the filter cannot catch. A small amount of this is not a problem. The potentially large amount of these small particles from manufacture, not so good.

    We are so careful to make sure not a speck of dirt or contaminant falls into the oil fill hole when doing a service. Would it be such a bad idea to get the very serious volume of contaminants that we know are there from the factory, out?



    What we are discussing here is the possible benefits of just 1 initial oil service over the life of the vehicle. And you are 100% correct about each one making their own decision. Still, it is always best to consider all your options and weigh the possible benefits before making a choice. I commend this dealer for at least offering this reasonable option.



    What you say is something to consider. My feeling would be that this 600 mile service would be just a simple oil service instead of, not in addition to, the 3,000 mile service. Not the full 3,000 mile job. And I would not expect to do another engine oil service until the standard mileage service interval. Not sure what this dealer is proposing long term. But this would be reasonable and not add all that much to the overall expense. In other words. This dealerships recommendation is not necessarily a scam.

    Just my experience when my dealer suggested it he stated if I got it done at 600 mile I would not have to do the 3000 mile service. This made no senses to me so I followed the manual, if anything goes wrong then it is documented that I followed BRP manual and warranty SHOULD not be an issue.
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    Active Member Chasinsparks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbflapjack View Post
    Yes, it was that dealer. Overall I was very happy with the dealer but I haven't had to use them for service yet. Have you had negative experience with that dealer or just know about the 600 mile recommendation.

    No idea this question would spark such good discussion. I think I will check with them to make sure it is just an oil change and get an estimate.
    My experience with said dealer was not that positive. I have herd others that have had better luck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbflapjack View Post
    Along that line, what is the typical price range for the oil change service and the 3,000 mile service that people have seen?
    $350 and up
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    I guess some of the decision will be made on financial grounds. If one is paying $300 for an oil/filter change at a dealer then that's a substantial outlay in the long run. Those of us who do it ourselves can do about 10 oil changes for that 300 dollars so we can afford to be generous to our bikes.
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    As most of those recommondations are mostly based on the oil and filtration and not on materials and assembly you could choose to drain out factory oil and add a better oil. You can request your choice of oil at set up and follow their recommendations. Many dealers have a preference, if not mandated by manufacturer, and you can agree or not. Many oils out there have brand name made by a limited few refineries. Just a thought...
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbflapjack View Post
    Along that line, what is the typical price range for the oil change service and the 3,000 mile service that people have seen?
    I just had that done here in South Florida. Cost was $320. If they did everything listed on the service invoice (doubtful), it was definitely worth it. I had 1900 miles, but it had been a year.

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    Didn't any of you guys read the post a week or two ago, where the guy had done his first oil change had pictures of his drain plug and it looked like he had stuck it in a bucket of filings!!! God, it's only one oil change, then back to the factory service, what's the hurt in that!!!!! I call it CHEAP insurance in my book! Years ago we would buy a new car and always do the first check up at 2000 miles, change the oil, check for loose bolts and what not! Have a good day, ride safe!!
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    I've never paid a dealer to change my oil and never will. Ill be doing my 3000 mile service at about 2500 miles. Not difficult at all on the 1330. A lot easier than my previous 998, that I also did myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkRosePetal View Post
    I guess some of the decision will be made on financial grounds. If one is paying $300 for an oil/filter change at a dealer then that's a substantial outlay in the long run. Those of us who do it ourselves can do about 10 oil changes for that 300 dollars so we can afford to be generous to our bikes.
    Where do you buy your supplies? $30 is pretty cheap.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highwayman2013 View Post
    Where do you buy your supplies? $30 is pretty cheap.
    Agreed. Cheapest I find the BRP kit is $88 on Amazon.

    After all this discussion (thanks for all the input), I decided I will have the dealer do the first oil change before I put it away for the winter which will be about 1,000 miles. I also have some warranty work that needs to be done so I will do it all at the same time. After that I will do my own oil changes.

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    I changed my '11 RT and '14 RT at about 500 miles and on both there was a silvery sheen in the oil. Didn't have that with later changes. Driving a Slingshot now and it called for first change at 500mi. New cars do not and folks on car forums discuss early vs late changes constantly. Probably doesn't make a bit of difference in long run; just made me feel better to do it early and thats what counts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ulflyer View Post
    I changed my '11 RT and '14 RT at about 500 miles and on both there was a silvery sheen in the oil. Didn't have that with later changes. Driving a Slingshot now and it called for first change at 500mi. New cars do not and folks on car forums discuss early vs late changes constantly. Probably doesn't make a bit of difference in long run; just made me feel better to do it early and thats what counts.
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    I bought my 2018 F3 LTD used with 855 miles, out of my local area. I wasn't sure of the history so after I got 1K miles on it, I decided to take it in to the local dealer and had them do the service and they also did a software update. For me, a few hundred dollars is cheap insurance considering how much I paid for the machine. I'm at 3300 miles and it runs / shifts beautiful. I figured I would do the next service around 6K miles. You can't change the oil too much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highwayman2013 View Post
    Where do you buy your supplies? $30 is pretty cheap.
    I do a lot of engine work so I buy my lubricants in 20lt containers. But so can you! For the Spyders I buy Mobil Super 3000 X1 5W-40 20 Liter. Nowadays I shop around for it, the last I bought was 40Lts at 74 per 20lt tub on ebay. Given the pound to dollar exchange rate and just short of 4 oil changes out of one tub plus a filter that can't be far off $30 I guess.

    I don't know about oils but I often buy stuff from the US because, even with our import taxes, it's cheaper than buying here so I guess with a bit of leg work you could find a good deal.
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