I know its me but......

**Quartermain** · 10-01-2019, 11:56 AM

Sorry for bringing up a beat-to-death subject, but Help! 2019 RT 900 miles so far.
It just can't get comfortable in curves. I have read and practiced ALL the tips from everyone ( lean in weight on outside foot, push instead of pull, look ahead.) Believe me, I WANT to love this thing and my problem is the FEELING of the g forces. I KNOW it won't tip over. I KNOW I can corner at the posted speed. I just can't shake that FEELING that it's gonna throw me off. Parking lots don't help. Slow twisty back roads either. I want to just ride the highway or anywhere at the posted speed without feeling like I'll get run over. Downhill curves are especially terrifying. And here I am in the Mecca of motorcycling and afraid to over 35. Please understand, I can ride the highways at 50-60 mph, and feel comfy until a curve comes up and that g force feeling rears its head.
Sorry for my long winded admittance of shame. Going to the Maggie Spyder Rally next week, and will pick the brains of some of the expert riders there.
Thanks for hearing me out-Al.

**ARtraveler** · 10-01-2019, 12:19 PM

I would give it a few more miles. It took me 1500 before I was comfortable with my 08 RS back in the day. Now, 150,000 plus spyder miles.

All of the stuff that you say is not working for you, should. The death grip will put additional input into your ride that you do not want.

Beyond what is mentioned I do not know of any additional solution(s).

I note your new.

**Quartermain** · 10-01-2019, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by ARtraveler

I would give it a few more miles. It took me 1500 before I was comfortable with my 08 RS back in the day. Now, 150,000 plus spyder miles.

All of the stuff that you say is not working for you, should. The death grip will put additional input into your ride that you do not want.

Beyond what is mentioned I do not know of any additional solution(s).

I note your new.

Thanks for responding, AR. I know it'll take more miles, and am not using a death grip at all. I'm very at ease just cruising along and relaxed. Have my lady on the back and really enjoy the ride and everything about the Spyder. Came from 50 years on two wheels, and if not for a couple incidents with a 2012 Ural, I might not feel this way at all.
I just have trouble watching the videos of folks taking curves with what looks like minimal lean etc. while I'm having my chin over my mirror and my outside leg is pushing down with enough force to practically lift me off the seat.
It's not a matter of strength to hold myself on the bike. Years of heavy weight lifting took care of that. It's just that FEELING from the g forces.
I know it's a me problem. I'll get it eventually. I just keep thinking I'm holding everybody up on the Parkway, or I'll get run over or rear ended on the highway.
Thanks again for listening. See you in Maggie?

**Batmobil-F3** · 10-01-2019, 12:57 PM

Not the "chin over the mirror" is crucial, but the upper body. This must be tilted as far and deep as possible into the inside of the bend. Only then will the G-forces be reduced to the upper body.
On the picture the posture is well to be recognized.

Ryker-Kurve.jpg

**Batmobil-F3** · 10-01-2019, 01:04 PM

Possibly someone can record a video or take some pictures of your driving style. Then an assistance would be much easier.

**BajaRon** · 10-01-2019, 01:21 PM

The learning curve for me was very steep. It took me some time before I didn't feel exactly as you do now. I just couldn't bring myself to trust the vehicle.

I don't usually recommend my sway bar kit for newer riders. Only because to fully appreciate it, most riders need to become both familiar and fairly comfortable with their Spyder. But I have had customers call me saying that they have just about given up on their Spyder for the very reasons you reference. But decided to give my sway bar a shot as a last ditch effort to keep it. More often with 2 up riders than single riders. But I've had both.

I try to avoid 'Pushing' my products. I think it somewhat tacky in a form like this. I am suggesting this only because I genuinely feel it may go a long way towards resolving your core issues. Just my opinion, of course. But whatever you decided to do. I highly recommend not giving up. Continue to relax and try to ride in such a way that you enjoy the experience. The improvement will come.

**JayBros** · 10-01-2019, 01:28 PM

I agree with ARtraveler, give it some more miles and don't beat yourself up about it. It's an individual thing and nothing to be ashamed about. Remember the bottom line is it's your ass on the line; be safe.

**WisconsinDavid** · 10-01-2019, 01:31 PM

I agree with what everyone has said. Keep at it... it will come. You are rewiring your brain from your two wheel experience to three wheels. They are they same and yet different and that's what is so perplexing at first. You are building a new skill set, reprogramming muscle memory and balance, etc. Trust the Spyder. Eventually, it will just click and you won't look back

**Peter Aawen** · 10-01-2019, 01:40 PM

Sounds like it's still a 'more saddle time' thing for you, and that you are already starting out pretty well on the re-wiring, buut, have you been ONLY pulling with your inside hand?

At the risk of trying to teach you & any others who already know this (if you do, you're welcome to ignore, but I'll lay it out so that those who don't already know might benefit.

) try not to 'push' the handle bar with your outside hand, instead, just pull with the inside hand as well as doing the bracing & pushing yourself IN with your outside foot bit that you mentioned, and maybe even let your behind slide across to the inside of the seat a bit too! You certainly shouldn't need to hang off the inside of the seat, but doing the PULL thing to help move your weight (& point of view) IN so that it helps keep the CoG IN and DOWN as you look ahead as far thru and around the corner that you can, focusing on where you want to be as far down the road as you can see will all help counter that sense of 'almost being tossed off the outside'!!

Another thing that can help is 'late apexing' the corners.... Basically, that means don't turn in too early in too much of an effort to do a smooth, constant rate turn.....Sure, smooth is the aim, but instead, try to start out wide (actually use the full width of your lane/side of the road

) & while you do want to do the bulk of your braking in a staight line, don't pile it all on early just to get it over, but rather do MOST of it early but hold it a little later & stay on the trailing brake while you keep your Spyder out wide and let it go straight just a little deeper into the corner than you normally would with that constant rate turn, before starting your 'turn in', get off the brake, & smoothly (pulling in on the inside hand) guide the Spyder thru the corner in a path that will just see your inside front wheel gently touch the fog line where the corner finally straightens out & not before - that's the 'late apex'!!

The later braking lets you stay that bit straighter as you keep wide on the entry; then your 'turn in' is shorter & usually over quicker than it is in a 'constant rate turn', but just where you'd normally be starting to feel uncomfortably like you're going to be tossed off the Spyder and onto the outside of the corner, you should be able to start to ease the 'turn in' off a bit & smoothly open out both the steering AND the throttle as you aim for and then gently let your inside front wheel 'kiss the fog-line' at the late apex! It can mean that you hold more speed INTO the turn, hold that speed and stay faster THRU the turn, and then get on the gas sooner coming OUT of the turn, and it feels FANBLOODYTASTIC when you finally do that, but you really don't need to aim for that to start out with!! Use the Late Apexing technique to help your turns feel less like you are going to be thrown off the outside; keep your speed down and practice the timing and technique on EVERY corner or deviation from 'straight ahead' you come across/ryde thru until it becomes second nature & a muscle memory; and once you've become that comfortable with it all, gradually let your speed increase until you are happy taking every corner at a speed and in a way that does give you that FANBLOODYTASTIC feeling!!

And remember, just like someone once said about their hair.... It won't happen overnight, but it WILL happen!

Ps: get your Lady to do the 'push with the outside leg, pull with the inside hand' thing on her grips too, and ask her to try leaning with you or even just a touch more than you, so that she can look ahead over your inside shoulder on every corner... It doesn't hafta be a highly energetic & religiously applied thing, but it all helps, even a token effort!

**Quartermain** · 10-01-2019, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by BajaRon

The learning curve for me was very steep. It took me some time before I didn't feel exactly as you do now. I just couldn't bring myself to trust the vehicle.

I don't usually recommend my sway bar kit for newer riders. Only because to fully appreciate it, most riders need to become both familiar and fairly comfortable with their Spyder. But I have had customers call me saying that they have just about given up on their Spyder for the very reasons you reference. But decided to give my sway bar a shot as a last ditch effort to keep it. More often with 2 up riders than single riders. But I've had both.

I try to avoid 'Pushing' my products. I think it somewhat tacky in a form like this. I am suggesting this only because I genuinely feel it may go a long way towards resolving your core issues. Just my opinion, of course. But whatever you decided to do. I highly recommend not giving up. Continue to relax and try to ride in such a way that you enjoy the experience. The improvement will come.

Thanks, Ron. I agree that your bar MAY help, but I'm too new to this . I know a stock RT will take ANY curve or corner at the posted speed. It's the rider (me) that makes the difference. I'll probably get your swaybar in the future.
BTW, I'm the guy bugging you for the oil filters to bring to Maggie. See you then-Al

**12tree** · 10-01-2019, 02:08 PM

60 years on 2 wheels. flat track racing, Iron Butt challenges.
The Spyder felt all wrong to me. You just need more seat time. Ride every chance you get. Short rides, long rides, just more seat time.
I now feel like I belong there.
You will get there.

**Quartermain** · 10-01-2019, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Peter Aawen

Sounds like it's still a 'more saddle time' thing for you, and that you are already starting out pretty well on the re-wiring, buut, have you been ONLY pulling with your inside hand?

At the risk of trying to teach you & any others who already know this (if you do, you're welcome to ignore, but I'll lay it out so that those who don't already know might benefit.

) try not to 'push' the handle bar with your outside hand, instead, just pull with the inside hand as well as doing the bracing & pushing yourself IN with your outside foot bit that you mentioned, and maybe even let your behind slide across to the inside of the seat a bit too! You certainly shouldn't need to hang off the inside of the seat, but doing the PULL thing to help move your weight (& point of view) IN so that it helps keep the CoG IN and DOWN as you look ahead as far thru and around the corner that you can, focusing on where you want to be as far down the road as you can see will all help counter that sense of 'almost being tossed off the outside'!!

Another thing that can help is 'late apexing' the corners.... Basically, that means don't turn in too early in too much of an effort to do a smooth, constant rate turn.....Sure, smooth is the aim, but instead, try to start out wide (actually use the full width of your lane/side of the road

) & while you do want to do the bulk of your braking in a staight line, don't pile it all on early just to get it over, but rather do MOST of it early but hold it a little later & stay on the trailing brake while you keep your Spyder out wide and let it go straight just a little deeper into the corner than you normally would with that constant rate turn, before starting your 'turn in', get off the brake, & smoothly (pulling in on the inside hand) guide the Spyder thru the corner in a path that will just see your inside front wheel gently touch the fog line where the corner finally straightens out & not before - that's the 'late apex'!!

The later braking lets you stay that bit straighter as you keep wide on the entry; then your 'turn in' is shorter & usually over quicker than it is in a 'constant rate turn', but just where you'd normally be starting to feel uncomfortably like you're going to be tossed off the Spyder and onto the outside of the corner, you should be able to start to ease the 'turn in' off a bit & smoothly open out both the steering AND the throttle as you aim for and then gently let your inside front wheel 'kiss the fog-line' at the late apex! It can mean that you hold more speed INTO the turn, hold that speed and stay faster THRU the turn, and then get on the gas sooner coming OUT of the turn, and it feels FANBLOODYTASTIC when you finally do that, but you really don't need to aim for that to start out with!! Use the Late Apexing technique to help your turns feel less like you are going to be thrown off the outside; keep your speed down and practice the timing and technique on EVERY corner or deviation from 'straight ahead' you come across/ryde thru until it becomes second nature & a muscle memory; and once you've become that comfortable with it all, gradually let your speed increase until you are happy taking every corner at a speed and in a way that does give you that FANBLOODYTASTIC feeling!!

And remember, just like someone once said about their hair.... It won't happen overnight, but it WILL happen!

Thanks, Peter. I have heard that you should push with outside hand, pull with inside, don't pull, don't push etc. Guess it's who is telling you what works for them.
As I stated at first, I don't have any trouble making the turn, or even maintaining it through the curve. It's doing it at the speed that other traffic (bikes, cars, turtles, Nuns in station wagons) are maintaining. I feel I shouldnt have to brake for any gradual curve on a super highway, for example, but something inside says slow down, here comes that FEELING again. Downhill left's are a scary example, because the roads in this goofy state, while being crowned, actually go very slightly off-camber through the curve, which for me, seems to exacerbate the "feeling".
Once again, Thanks to all for listening (and chuckling).

**Chasinsparks** · 10-01-2019, 02:23 PM

I agree with the post above. For me I just had to keep pushing the limits each time I was out. At first I truly did not think I was going to keep my RLT, the best thing for me was learning to relax. I also have found that since I got rid of the stock tires I feel I can enter and exit the curves much faster, and smoother. If you are just coming off a two wheel bike, it may not hurt to take a 3 wheel riders course.

**12tree** · 10-01-2019, 02:38 PM

No chuckling here. You just need more seat time.

**woods** · 10-01-2019, 03:13 PM

Pulling thru corners is some of the best advice I've gotten! Tends to start you leaning the right way as soon as you apply pressure. If corner is tight and I'm going fast I also use my inside leg,tight against the bike body,to pull myself into the turn. Going to start using the pull technique on the sled this winter!

**canamjhb** · 10-01-2019, 03:14 PM

Follow Peters' advice. PULLING the inside handlebar instead of PUSHING the outside helps alleviate G force and helps keep your body correctly positioned in corners. Try it. I think you will see an immediate improvement. I came from many decades of riding 2 wheelers and at times still have to "talk" myself through corners. Just remember, lean into corner, put weight on outside foot to help you lean, and PULL with the inside handlebar. And lastly, LOOK well into and beyond the curve. Look where you want to go and that's where you WILL go. With a little time you will be comfortable. Keep us posted on how it is going for you..... Jim

**Woodaddict** · 10-01-2019, 03:22 PM

If you LIKE the ride, just ride more, its a different feel, start at slower speeds, work up to faster. I didn't hear you say you went OFF the road or in ditch yet. you got this under control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

all above tips help

**BLUEKNIGHT911** · 10-01-2019, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by Quartermain

Thanks, Ron. I agree that your bar MAY help, but I'm too new to this . I know a stock RT will take ANY curve or corner at the posted speed. It's the rider (me) that makes the difference. I'll probably get your swaybar in the future.
BTW, I'm the guy bugging you for the oil filters to bring to Maggie. See you then-Al

Actually more than those Yellow speed limit ADVISORY signs …. I can go 5-10-15 mph above those on my 14 RT ( without a HD sway bar ) … I would also suggest you wait until you master the Spyder before you start adding passengers ( if they aren't well versed in what a passenger should do ) they can hurt your learning curve ….jmho …. hang in there, once you get it - you will wonder why it took so long ….. Mike

...PS if you are nervous - you will be tense - and your muscles will tire easily, this makes it less enjoyable and the learning curve gets longer ……

**Lew L** · 10-01-2019, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by woods

Pulling thru corners is some of the best advice I've gotten! Tends to start you leaning the right way as soon as you apply pressure. If corner is tight and I'm going fast I also use my inside leg,tight against the bike body,to pull myself into the turn. Going to start using the pull technique on the sled this winter!

That inside knee to the "tank" thing along with using your core muscles to keep you inside the curve really helps. It's like hanging off a motorcycle at speedy curve.

Lew L

**Quartermain** · 10-01-2019, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911

Actually more than those Yellow speed limit ADVISORY signs …. I can go 5-10-15 mph above those on my 14 RT ( without a HD sway bar ) … I would also suggest you wait until you master the Spyder before you start adding passengers ( if they aren't well versed in what a passenger should do ) they can hurt your learning curve ….jmho …. hang in there, once you get it - you will wonder why it took so long ….. Mike

...PS if you are nervous - you will be tense - and your muscles will tire easily, this makes it less enjoyable and the learning curve gets longer ……

Sorry, but that passenger is glued to that seat! She loves it back there and has no trouble leaning/ holding on. We are both very relaxed when we ride- just slow in curves.
Thanks-Al

**Quartermain** · 10-01-2019, 06:27 PM

BTW, does anybody know if I can bring my leashed dog to the rally?

**spyder01** · 10-01-2019, 06:33 PM

I agree with all the above ideas but would add this,get yourself setup for the turn ahead of time.When you see the turn get your butt over and slowly start to lean so that once you enter the turn you wont be fighting the c-force so much bc your already in the right position.Also make sure you've got your foot in position to ease on the brake a little just in case.Two interesting things I noticed last week on my Maggie Valley trip.1,If you hit the brake in the middle of a fast sharp turn it seems to pull the bike deeper into the turn which is a good thing 2,If you get in way too fast,just at the point your thinking oh ****e,the computer grabs ahold of the brake(probably inside front)and you slow down and veer back towards the center of the road.A little unnerving but pretty cool.

**MonPaul** · 10-01-2019, 07:07 PM

Exactly the same here. I remember at about 1500 miles for me it felt like I had a different bike! You can try the push-pull with the handlebars, for me what helped was when I was taking a left turn I firmly planted my right foot on the floorboard because that is where your weight will go (the opposite side just like in a car.) Bottom line don't worry it will come, and your goal is to not think at all. Once that happens is when you will really enjoy your ride. Just know we have all been through what you are feeling - it is not you.

**PapaHotel** · 10-01-2019, 07:18 PM

It took me 3000 miles. A change from the RT to the F3 helped as it has a lower center of gravity and different riding position.

**Navydad** · 10-01-2019, 08:18 PM

Close to 50 years on two wheels and still have a couple in the garage that I ride regularly. I had a terrible time with my RT or rather it had a terrible time with me. I've known the salesman that sold me my RT for many years. He said he would buy a ticket just to see me ride the thing home. He was right, it was a show worth seeing. One day we went riding with a couple and they were behind us on their GW trike. We stopped for a break and they were full of suggestions for me and my wife who is also glued to the seat behind me. Some of the suggestions helped and some didn't, but eventually I got the hang of it. It does get better it's just comes quicker for some than others. We'll be in Maggie.

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