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Thread: Wrong oil???

  1. #1
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    Default Wrong oil???

    Hi folks, I noticed that I was low on oil in my new to me 2013 RTL.
    Went to my closest dealer in Taylorsville NC.
    Bought 2 quarts, put not quite 1 quart in the bike.
    After I did that I happened to look at what I bought.
    It said SM service. I remembered reading that you are not supposed to use SM service oil.
    Did she sell me the wrong oil?
    And I told her what it was going in!

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    Very Active Member JayBros's Avatar
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    Was it a Can-Am dealership? What brand was it? If it was not a Can-Am dealership I think it unreasonable to expect a parts person to know all the lubrication specs for all the motorcycles on the road. If it was a Can-Am dealership it's your responsibility to check the container before you put it in the engine. You have close to 25% SM oil in your engine. I recommend getting it completely out of there ASAP, preferably without riding it. You're risking your clutch.
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    Not all SM rated oils will slip your clutch. The reason for this warning is that many SM rated oils WILL slip the clutch on a 998 (which is much more oil/clutch sensitive than the 1330).

    Some SM rated oils are JASO MA2 rated. MA2 being the highest wet clutch friction rating possible. And while the JASO ratings fall on a spread. In other words. One MA2 rated oil may have just made it into the MA2 category whereas another MA2 rated oil may be at the top of the MA2 scale. Kind of like an A-, A and A+. All are A's, but not all are equal. In the JASO rating scheme, they would all simply be rated equally as A's (or in this case, MA2, on the bottle). You'd have to get the actual itemized spec sheet on that particular oil to see where on the MA2 scale they fall.

    If the oil has a JASO MA2 rating, then it SHOULD be OK, even in a 998. If it has anything other than a JASO MA2 rating, I would not use it.

    I believe the BRP blended oil is now SM rated. I am sure I will be corrected if this is not the case.
    Last edited by BajaRon; 09-11-2019 at 03:34 PM.
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    Active Member Zoot's Avatar
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    It sounds like a case of "Don't worry about it now, but go ahead and change it out for the right stuff ASAP."

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    I'll look at it when I get home later this week and report back.
    And yes, it is a Can Am dealer.

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    Didn't someone say that BRP branded oil is now SM, but the company says their formulation is safe to use... but others not? Seems there was a discussion on this a little while ago with the BRP oil change kits. Or... maybe my memory is really fogged.

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    Very Active Member KX5062's Avatar
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    Ron is right on the money. I would also add that MA1 rated oil should be okay too. As I understand it the only difference between these two classes are the components related to catalytic converters found on all of the new bikes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KX5062 View Post
    Ron is right on the money. I would also add that MA1 rated oil should be okay too. As I understand it the only difference between these two classes are the components related to catalytic converters found on all of the new bikes.
    As with all oil related subjects. It can get confusing. It doesn't seem to be any different with the JASO ratings. Although this should not discourage the average consumer from grasping the very simple aspects of this very important rating that apply to their needs. Especially when the wrong JASO rated oil can end up costing a bundle to fix a destroyed clutch.

    At the risk of making things worse, I will say that though you are correct, there is more than just a catalytic converter component difference between the various JASO ratings. You can see this by the chart below. Also, you will not find the different ratings normally listed in the order I use in my chart. MB, MA1, MA & MA2. I listed them this way because it seems more logical to me to list them from the least clutch friction offered to the most clutch friction offered. I think the reason JASO lists these in different order is that they are grouping the catalytic converter and the non-catalytic converter lubricants together. This is also logical in that respect.

    It is my understanding that the MB and MA rated oils are not catalytic converter friendly. And that the MA1 and MA2 are. Interestingly enough. We are sacrificing additional engine wear to protect our catalytic converters. Everything in life is a trade-off. It is no different with lubrication.

    The way this rating works is that all 3 components must fall within a rating to qualify. So, for example, if 2 components fall within the MA2 range, and 1 component falls within the MA range. That oil would receive a lower JASO rating of MA, not MA2. Even though it would be a much better lubricant than an oil where all 3 components fell into the lower MA category.

    You can click on the chart below to make it readable.

    JASO Rating Chart.jpg
    Last edited by BajaRon; 09-12-2019 at 01:25 PM.
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    Wow, the things I am learning about the oil!
    Looking forward to getting home to see what I have.
    Thanks Ron!

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    Very Active Member PW2013STL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaRon View Post
    As with all oil related subjects. It can get confusing. It doesn't seem to be any different with the JASO ratings. Although this should not discourage the average consumer from grasping the very simple aspects of this very important rating that apply to their needs. Especially when the wrong JASO rated oil can end up costing a bundle to fix a destroyed clutch.

    At the risk of making things worse, I will say that though you are correct, there is more than just a catalytic converter component difference between the various JASO ratings. You can see this by the chart below. Also, you will not find the different ratings normally listed in the order I use in my chart. MB, MA1, MA & MA2. I listed them this way because it seems more logical to me to list them from the least clutch friction offered to the most clutch friction offered. I think the reason JASO lists these in different order is that they are grouping the catalytic converter and the non-catalytic converter lubricants together. This is also logical in that respect.

    It is my understanding that the MB and MA rated oils are not catalytic converter friendly. And that the MA1 and MA2 are. Interestingly enough. We are sacrificing additional engine wear to protect our catalytic converters. Everything in life is a trade-off. It is no different with lubrication.

    The way this rating works is that all 3 components must fall within a rating to qualify. So, for example, if 2 components fall within the MA2 range, and 1 component falls within the MA range. That oil would receive a JASO rating of MA, not MA2.

    You can click on the chart below to make it readable.

    ?? "Chart below"??
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    Quote Originally Posted by PW2013STL View Post
    ?? "Chart below"??
    It is all in the manual and easy enough to find. Just look for the engine lubrication section on the menu and click the page number.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PW2013STL View Post
    ?? "Chart below"??
    Very strange! The chart is still listed as 'Attached' in my post. But it is not showing up. I deleted the chart and re-loaded it. It then appeared in my post as it should.

    If I click on the chart it to enlarge it so that it is readable. It then goes away and no longer shows in my post when I close the 'Enlarged' window. Though it still shows 'Attached' when I edit the post.

    If I simply hover my mouse pointer over the chart until it auto-enlarges, it remains when I close the 'Enlarged' window.

    Hopefully, the chart does appear now. At least it was showing up fine when I left the thread. I'm going to leave it alone and maybe it will still be there when you come back! ;-)
    Last edited by BajaRon; 09-12-2019 at 01:21 PM.
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  14. #14
    Very Active Member PW2013STL's Avatar
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    It's there now Ron.
    2015 F3S, 2018 F3L

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    but our benefits don't?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PW2013STL View Post
    It's there now Ron.
    Yes, I came back to check and it's still there! Awesome!

    I'm going to leave it alone....
    Only SLOW people have to leave on time...





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    Hi folks, it appears I was sold the right.oil after all, and I had read the fine print we wouldn't be having this conversation!
    On the other hand, it's been a learning experience, and I appreciate all of the replies!
    Attached Images Attached Images

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