Automatic Air System Parameters

[h0gr1der]

I know I'm doing it wrong, but while doing some mad scientist investigating I found out some things about the automatic air system that I'd like some feedback on to see if I got it right.

First, to be operational, the bike needs to be running, in gear, with the parking brake off. Is this right?

Second, to get some kind of idea, I bled down the bladder and pressured it up to determine when the air pump comes on and when the bleed valve opens. Being as the system is on a feedback sensor, I'm assuming that the bike will make the set-points (more or less) whether it is loaded or unloaded. Is that correct?

I did determine that as measured from the tip of the rear fender to the level smooth concrete that the air pump came on at ±13" from the rear fender tip to the ground, and the bleed valve opens at ±17" fender tip to ground. All of this is subjective, based on tire size and pressure, etc. This is on my bike alone.

I'm looking at loaded vs unloaded bike heights to determine shock setup. I know, I'm doing it wrong, but I've got to work with what I have. If you've ever done any of this kind of stuff, and have some input, please pitch in.

[Peter Aawen]

........

First, to be operational, the bike needs to be running, in gear, with the parking brake off. Is this right? YES

.....

Well, at least it's a start to getting all your answers!

[h0gr1der]

Well, at least it's a start to getting all your answers!

Mr. Aawen,
Thanks for the prompt reply. I wasn't sure about the in gear part. You would have had a good laugh if you could have seen the contortions I had to do to add and bleed air while doing all this. I could have made money with the video!

[Grandpot]

One other parameter. All the rear compartments need to be closed. Not sure why they stuck that one in the equation, but they did.

[h0gr1der]

One other parameter. All the rear compartments need to be closed. Not sure why they stuck that one in the equation, but they did.

Mr. Grandpot,

I would have never guessed that on in a million years. I did trial and error to get it to work, almost gave up until I accidentally hit all the right parameters. I had got to the point that I thought it may have to be actually moving to work, but finally took off the parking brake. How on earth did you come across that tidbit?

[2dogs]

Don't forget, it is an automatic ride height system. That's it's main function. Whatever you set it at it should maintain that same height loaded (two up) or one up. There is a sensor on the left side that maintains the ride height when the load changes. Don't over pressure your system or you may damage the bladder. I believe the BUDs system can be used to preset your ride height. Check with your dealer to see what your machine is set at. Mine was set for 150 lbs, that's my weight. By the way, put an FOBO on the Schrader valve if you want to watch it work.

[trikermutha]

There is a switch on the swing arm that determine ride height/turns on the compressor. ( A arm attached to the swing arm that goes to a switch.)

Side Note: Since my M2 rear shock swap I have not heard the air compressor kick on once. So basically the shock is hold up the rear end. If it does sag the switch will activate the compressor if needed.

So if you really want to hook up a volt meter to the switch to achieve what you are looking for.

System with Compressor ACS SUSPENSION SETTINGS SETTING BAR RIDING POSITION 1 (top) Lowest 2 Low 3 Factory setting (Middle) 4 High 5 (bottom) Highest

The ACS can be monitored thru BUDS if needed

[Grandpot]

Mr. Grandpot,

I would have never guessed that on in a million years. I did trial and error to get it to work, almost gave up until I accidentally hit all the right parameters. I had got to the point that I thought it may have to be actually moving to work, but finally took off the parking brake. How on earth did you come across that tidbit?

It is mentioned in the small print in the service manual.

[h0gr1der]

It is mentioned in the small print in the service manual.

Mr. Grandpot,

I must have not RTFM well enough!

[h0gr1der]

There is a switch on the swing arm that determine ride height/turns on the compressor. ( A arm attached to the swing arm that goes to a switch.)

Side Note: Since my M2 rear shock swap I have not heard the air compressor kick on once. So basically the shock is hold up the rear end. If it does sag the switch will activate the compressor if needed.

So if you really want to hook up a volt meter to the switch to achieve what you are looking for.

System with Compressor ACS SUSPENSION SETTINGS SETTING BAR RIDING POSITION 1 (top) Lowest 2 Low 3 Factory setting (Middle) 4 High 5 (bottom) Highest

The ACS can be monitored thru BUDS if needed

Mr. trikermutha,

I am aware of the ACS position switch and how it works. I'm trying to tune my suspension to match my weight, without losing too much ride comfort. I like the idea of a rear spring that will actually support 1 rider (and baggage) without bottoming, and not rely on the air bag to do it. Kind of keep the air bag in reserve for 2 up riding. Trying to do all this with no BUD's and very little technical knowledge other than the excellent advice I've gotten from folks on here.

[trikermutha]

Mr. trikermutha,

I am aware of the ACS position switch and how it works. I'm trying to tune my suspension to match my weight, without losing too much ride comfort. I like the idea of a rear spring that will actually support 1 rider (and baggage) without bottoming, and not rely on the air bag to do it. Kind of keep the air bag in reserve for 2 up riding. Trying to do all this with no BUD's and very little technical knowledge other than the excellent advice I've gotten from folks on here.

There only so much adjustment you will be able to achieve with the stock setup.

Well anyway...Good Luck on your goals!

[SpyderAnn01]

Don't forget, it is an automatic ride height system. That's it's main function. Whatever you set it at it should maintain that same height loaded (two up) or one up. There is a sensor on the left side that maintains the ride height when the load changes. Don't over pressure your system or you may damage the bladder. I believe the BUDs system can be used to preset your ride height. Check with your dealer to see what your machine is set at. Mine was set for 150 lbs, that's my weight. By the way, put an FOBO on the Schrader valve if you want to watch it work.

The 18 Limited models do nit have a schrader valve, nor is there a way for the rider to select a preference on softness/hardness

[h0gr1der]

The 18 Limited models do nit have a schrader valve, nor is there a way for the rider to select a preference on softness/hardness

Ms SpyderAnn01,

My 2018 RTL has the standard Schrader valve on the right side under the seat.

It does not have any adjustment for ride height or firmness, hence my quest for a better spring rate for my body mass.

[bluewoo]

Ms SpyderAnn01,

My 2018 RTL has the standard Schrader valve on the right side under the seat.

It does not have any adjustment for ride height or firmness, hence my quest for a better spring rate for my body mass.

IMG_20190901_112302.jpg

[bluewoo]

You could make a adjustable Tie rod would KISS!

tie rod ends.jpg

And get rid of the factory one
IMG_20190901_112650.jpg

[h0gr1der]

You could make a adjustable Tie rod would KISS!

tie rod ends.jpg

And get rid of the factory one
IMG_20190901_112650.jpg

I am a simple man, so I use simple solutions. The way I figure it the rear fender tip of my bike runs about 15" above the ground with me and my normal cargo aboard. This is with the automatic system enabled, air bag at ±43 PSI, rear tire at 18 PSI. I've read that the OEM rear spring is in the mid 300 Lb/In range (also being a progressive spring), with the airbag taking up the slack. So if I can do it, and get a spring with the right force and pre-load, I figure I can get the bike to sit at the same spot or very slightly higher (to keep the air pump from cycling) with the air bag at 0 PSI (me and cargo aboard), but still have the air system available for a maximum loaded condition (2 up). I feel like the less the air pump has to do, the more reliable it will be (told you, I'm a simple man). I currently have a project in progress, I'll post it up if it works. For me, it's not about the ride height. I want to keep it normal. It's about minimizing the air pump usage while trying to maintain a decent ride quality.

[bluewoo]

Have fun and I hope you can find the right spring. I know you"ll figure it out and keep us posted on your quest!

[Peter Aawen]

Just be aware that the Air bag doesn't like running at 0 psi.... that'll destroy it fairly quickly. But I do like your plan!

[Grandpot]

There are a couple of videos on YouTube that show how to work in the airbag/compressor area. Doc Humphreys shows how to access from the bottom and I have one showing how to remove the rear compartments and access from the top. Just search for Can Am Spyder Compressor.

[h0gr1der]

Just be aware that the Air bag doesn't like running at 0 psi.... that'll destroy it fairly quickly. But I do like your plan!

Even if I can get it to run at a much lower pressure, and keep the air pump from constantly cycling. Seems like every acceleration it pumps up, only to bleed off when I come to a stop. I don't like the idea much of a system that will bottom if the air bag blows out or leaks down.

[trikermutha]

Why work it destroy the air bag at 0 PSI??

[Peter Aawen]

Why work it destroy the air bag at 0 PSI??

The bag will flex & pinch in a way those air bags weren't ever designed to. And that's probably gonna apply even more if your standard suspension is also bottoming out! When the first airbag on my RT was replaced, I was told to always make sure the bag was pressurised higher than the minimum air pressure of 5psi...

[h0gr1der]

The bag will flex & pinch in a way those air bags weren't ever designed to. And that's probably gonna apply even more if your standard suspension is also bottoming out! When the first airbag on my RT was replaced, I was told to always make sure the bag was pressurised higher than the minimum air pressure of 5psi...

Mr Aawen,

Good to know. I'll adjust my preload to keep 5-10 PSI in the bag. Thanks.

[askitee]

Sharing some things I have learnt about my 2017 RTL suspension...

1. Before departing 1 or two UP, I stop at the top of my driveway (its level) still in gear and let the suspension settle. I do this If I stop at a motel overnight, find a level spot and give it 30 to 60 seconds.
2. I noted one day that when sitting at a set of road works on an down hill slope, my rear end was lowering, so I assume if there is a level sensor it thought my derriere was too high and lowered the rear end, event though it was going to be temporary. I know its always looking at my position but found this interesting.
3. Before item 1, the rear shock would bottom out two up. Since doing this it has been 9 months since I've had a bottom out, two up or two up plus trailer on some pretty ordinary roads ( you know the type where I don't think they even cleared the trees, they just layid the tar over the trunks layng on the ground)

Given the info above I am 90kg, pillion is 55kg, most of our riding is done on the lowest setting at the rear.

[Revalden]

I am a simple man, so I use simple solutions. The way I figure it the rear fender tip of my bike runs about 15" above the ground with me and my normal cargo aboard. This is with the automatic system enabled, air bag at ±43 PSI, rear tire at 18 PSI. I've read that the OEM rear spring is in the mid 300 Lb/In range (also being a progressive spring), with the airbag taking up the slack. So if I can do it, and get a spring with the right force and pre-load, I figure I can get the bike to sit at the same spot or very slightly higher (to keep the air pump from cycling) with the air bag at 0 PSI (me and cargo aboard), but still have the air system available for a maximum loaded condition (2 up). I feel like the less the air pump has to do, the more reliable it will be (told you, I'm a simple man). I currently have a project in progress, I'll post it up if it works. For me, it's not about the ride height. I want to keep it normal. It's about minimizing the air pump usage while trying to maintain a decent ride quality.

Isn't the rear tire supposed to be around 28psi?