Why would you want an asymmetrical rear tire?

[PMK]

Peter, for whatever reason, and unknown to me as to why, the automotive industry is a bit wonky in how they define tires.

To most people, a symmetric tire would project a mirror image based off the tires rotating centerline. I believe the auto tire folks often call this a directional tire.

The tires we deem as asymmetrical on Spyders, i thought the automotive folks considered them symmetrical, basing symmetry as the vehicles centerline and not the tires rotating centerline. In these cases, the tires can be rotated to either the left or right side of the vehicle.

The true fact in regards to tires is that when a tire is used on a motorcycle, technically based on two rolling wheels on the same centerline tracking, I doubt you will find anything but a true symmetric tire, with mirrored treaded.

All that said, when an automotive tire is installed on a motorcycle, the automotive definitions regarding basic tread pattern being symmetric or not are essentially null and void. The obvious gray area are the non centerline tires on a trike, the Spyder included. However, to apply automotive definitions to all tires or only outrigger tires when installed on a motorcycle certainly appears out of context.

Consider how incorrect it could be to apply the terms we use for moto tires against automotive tires.

In my opinion. The easiest way to consider tires for a Spyder, does the tire have a symmetrical tread pattern based on if a mirror is placed on the treads centerline. If there is no mirror image, the tire is asymmetric.

Going further, some asymmetric tires are what I call equal but opposite. Meaning the tread pattern does not mirror, but is equal but opposite angled tread blocks. Theses tires are not normally labeled inner or outer edge.

Then we have tires that are asymmetrical based on using the mirror technique, but are not equal but opposite. These tires present essentially two entirely different tread patterns where inner treads blocks differ greatly from outer tread blocks.

So in regards to answering your photo quiz, you need to stipulate, are you installing the tires on a motorcycle or on a car.

[bayoubill]

so whats the best rear tire for 4 seasons? i have to get one as soon as i get my dess problems fixed, the more i read here the more confused i am

[Spyderlass]

Which of these 6 tires do you consider to be symetric &/or can be readily run in either direction (possibly but not necessarily on a Spyder) & which do you think are asymetric &/or should only be run in one direction?

OK, I'll bite. I'm on my phone so I hope the order of the pics is correct!
1 is symmetrical and directional
2 is assymmetric and needs to be fitted with the lower part of your picture outwards.
3,4,5 and 6 are assymmetric.
3, 4 and 5 can be run both ways but
6, the mud and snow one, may have an outside edge, it's difficult to tell from your pic whether it's just the varying tread block size around the tyre circumference or a different pattern on each side. It certainly looks different side to side.

[Peter Aawen]

Peter, for whatever reason, and unknown to me as to why, the automotive industry is a bit wonky in how they define tires. [ Add 'and the tire industry' after the auto industry & I have to agree!]

To most people, a symmetric tire would project a mirror image based off the tires rotating centerline. I believe the auto tire folks often call this a directional tire. [That is (usually but not exclusively) true. See your comment above!]

The tires we deem as asymmetrical on Spyders, i thought the automotive folks considered them symmetrical [umm, once again, usually but not necessarily...] basing symmetry as the vehicles centerline and not the tires rotating centerline. that is the case - - sometimes...] In these cases, the tires can be rotated to either the left or right side of the vehicle. [Yes!]

The true fact in regards to tires is that when a tire is used on a motorcycle, technically based on two rolling wheels on the same centerline tracking, I doubt you will find anything but a true symmetric tire, with mirrored treaded. [For motorcycle tires, that IS usually the case... there are a few exceptions that aren't necessarily important here or re Spyders.

All that said, when an automotive tire is installed on a motorcycle, the automotive definitions regarding basic tread pattern being symmetric or not are essentially null and void. [Yeah, I can see what you are saying, not necessarily tho] The obvious gray area are the non centerline tires on a trike, the Spyder included. [It clearly is a grey area] However, to apply automotive definitions to all tires or only outrigger tires when installed on a motorcycle certainly appears out of context. [Again, not necessarily....]

Consider how incorrect it could be to apply the terms we use for moto tires against automotive tires.

In my opinion. [Not only yours!] The easiest way to consider tires for a Spyder, does the tire have a symmetrical tread pattern based on if a mirror is placed on the treads centerline. If there is no mirror image, the tire is asymmetric. [That is (at least generally) true - more on this later!]

Going further, some asymmetric tires are what I call equal but opposite. Meaning the tread pattern does not mirror, but is equal but opposite angled tread blocks. Theses tires are not normally labeled inner or outer edge. [That is correct, & very applicable to our discussion & at least some of the confusion seen here in this thread.]

Then we have tires that are asymmetrical based on using the mirror technique, but are not equal but opposite. These tires present essentially two entirely different tread patterns where inner treads blocks differ greatly from outer tread blocks. [Yes!]

So in regards to answering your photo quiz, you need to stipulate, are you installing the tires on a motorcycle or on a car. [It's not really essential, but rather than trying to expound on that here, can I suggest that what I put up later might help clarify that?! ].

My comments in [Bold] You've hit on some very important points in this, and I believe also some points that are causing a lot of the confusion in this thread!

Asymetrical tires don't necessarily have any different inside/outside tire carcass construction &/or different inside/outside tread compounds, many of them aren't even marked inside/outside because it just doesn't matter with them, but some (not too many yet!) high performance asymetrical tires DO have those markings & either or both of the construction/compound differences! And it's THOSE FEW with markings and either/both of the different construction or compound differences that are quite likely unsuitable for use on the rear of our Spyders, largely due to the potential for un-even drive under some conditions in a single drive tire application, so you really should check with the tire manufacturer before trying them on your Spyder/Ryker! However, most of those 'mildly asymetrical' tires that aren't labelled inside/outside (& even some that are) can be safely used as drive tires on Spyders, and as can be seen from the posts & threads here, some of them already have, very successfully!

Another point is that while most Symetrical tires are Directional, it's not mandatory; and many Asymetrical tires aren't Directional at all! However, tires that are Directional AND Symetrical are usually specialist tires of some type (Performance, Dry, or Wet, et al) while most Non-directional tires are either General Purpose or All Season tires. The terms Symetrical/Asymetrical & Directional/Non-Directional aren't necessarily interchangeable, altho there are some instances when they may be - but that's just because the Auto & Tire Manufacturers are frequently just ornery & contrary! (See PMK's first comment above!)

And rather than going on forever about this, there are already some very good descriptions about the differences between Symetrical & Asymetrical tires; here's a link to just one - a pretty good one too!

https://www.tirebuyer.com/education/...mmetric-tires#

Check out the pics of the Asymetrical Tires, especially the one identified as one of the best produced - maybe you can compare their tread patterns to my quiz pics... do any look similar at all?

As for the quiz, most have worked out that pic 1 is a Kenda, and yes, they are both directional and symetrical. However, ALL the rest are technically Asymetrical but NONE of them are Directional! Why would anyone be concerned about running them on their Spyder? Oh, and I should say that I know that tires of each those brands & tread patterns have all been run as the drive tire on a Spyder, and all but pic 6 on the front, too! Plus, at least arguably anyway, as well as lasting longer & costing less, they've ALL provided better performance for their users than the OE Spec Kendas did, both in the dry & the wet (well, when they are run at an appropriate pressure for their loadings anyway! )

So why aren't we all out there Ryding more & worrying less?

[PinkRosePetal]

so whats the best rear tire for 4 seasons? i have to get one as soon as i get my dess problems fixed, the more i read here the more confused i am

There isn't a best one....you get to choose. That's the fun of the game! Here's a site that might help you where you can get info, pictures of the tread, wet grip, noise level, fuel efficiency, load ratings and speed ratings. Click on the tyre picture to get more info. Use the side bar to select summer, all season or winter fitment to narrow your search.

https://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-finder...H9hd30xIFoHFKA

[bayoubill]

There isn't a best one....you get to choose. That's the fun of the game! Here's a site that might help you where you can get info, pictures of the tread, wet grip, noise level, fuel efficiency, load ratings and speed ratings. Click on the tyre picture to get more info. Use the side bar to select summer, all season or winter fitment to narrow your search.

https://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-finder...H9hd30xIFoHFKA

i know there isn't a best, but there's always one brand most run, at least on every other brand bike i've ever had before there was always one that a majority ran.

[wingit3611]

Mike

I personally approve of them, I like how the ride and handle. We just turn over 600 miles on them this weekend alone through some hills, and curvy road and I had zero issues. The first day as I said it poured and I had nothing but confidence the Vredestein Quatrac 5. On all three.

Be nice if you added your tire pressure. Only because everyone is different and has his or her's preferred settings. Different tires like different air pressure' maybe a pound this or pound that way, but that's the way the owner like his. Just curious?

[AeroPilot]

Go to a Rally and in addition to checking out other bikes mods, if you're interested in tires, check out the tread patterns and wear and ask the riders. Everyone rides a little different and often you can get a better feel for those that ride similar to you and what they like, not just the most vocal posts. But the forums are great for opinions as well. The last couple of Spyderfests and the Red Rocks Rally had mostly stock Kendas that I saw, but a mix of other tires on the RTs and F3s that I checked.

[SpyderAnn01]

i know there isn't a best, but there's always one brand most run, at least on every other brand bike i've ever had before there was always one that a majority ran.

The most popular at this time are the General Altimax RT43 (my preferred tire), Yokohama S Drive, Vredestein, and the Kumho. There was a time, before people started experimenting with different sized tires, that the only car tire people used was the Kumho Ecsta, and that was ONLY because it was available in the stock size. You will still get people recommending them but they are not a great tire, they are just the tire that that particular person chose. Others will opt for the Vee Rubber Arachnid tire since it also is marked For Special Motorcycle Use Only, it is as bad as or worse than the Kenda but people think it is good because of that wording.

You need to do your research and choose accordingly. Just remember that most people don’t put many miles on their Spyders and their opinions should be based on that.

[Spyderlass]

....there's always one brand most run,

Yes, but be wary of the sheep effect, imho.

[Chasinsparks]

Gladly; Fronts I am running 16 PSI Rear is at 18 PSI (Mostly 2 up riding combined weight of wife and I 290).

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Be nice if you added your tire pressure. Only because everyone is different and has his or her's preferred settings. Different tires like different air pressure' maybe a pound this or pound that way, but that's the way the owner like his. Just curious?

This will be a totally honest and frank answer ….ready …. the ONLY people who NEED to get that specific are the ones who RACE for serious money ie. Formula One , Nascar, etc... All the rest of us only need to get really CLOSE …. I know tires, I know the science, Myself and Peter pretty much recommend 15 psi front & 17-18 psi rear...… this will be for ANY auto tire that fits ….. I could go on for hours but I'm 72 and can't re-type everything I've ever written about tires ( which is extensive )….. All auto tires are about 92% the same, I recommend the best of what's sold to-day, why not, we deserve the best. This was My non-emotional answer - I give facts not feelings about tires and things related to tires. ….. ride happy - ride safe ….. ..... Mike

[bayoubill]

Yes, but be wary of the sheep effect, imho.

i have been mostly harley lately and most run dunlop, but its not sheep effect, they are just good tires, a few run different brands but not many, at least with the 20 or so hd people i know

[CopperSpyder]

i have been mostly harley lately and most run dunlop, but its not sheep effect, they are just good tires, a few run different brands but not many, at least with the 20 or so hd people i know

I was looking at some Dunlop direzza tires, they look interesting.

[askitee]

Is anyone running Asyms on the front?

[PMK]

Is anyone running Asyms on the front?

Federal Formoza tires on the front of our 14 RTS. Yokohama s.Drive on the rear. 20 psi in all three. BajaRon bar and Fox front shocks.

[BoilerAnimal]

The Vredestein Quatrac 5 tires are asymmetric tires and I believe that everyone who's tried them is very pleased with them. We are very happy with ours at 16 PSI.

[Peter Aawen]

Is anyone running Asyms on the front?

For the moment, I'm running a set of 'Mildly Asymetrical' Kumho EcoWings sized 175/60R15 up front - they are pretty good All Season Grand Tourers in all respects!

Only thing is that after discussing their fitting with their local guy, I've got the Kumhos fitted onto the front of the RT with the side marked INSIDE facing the OUTSIDE, so that in the wet, they'll disperse water & any spray to the outside & away from the vehicle rather than pushing it in & under the vehicle like they normally do on a car, cos in this case, since they are fitted onto a Spyder, they'd be spraying more water directly into the path of the rear 225/55R15 Kumho.... and I really didn't think it was smart to push any more water into the path of the rear tire!

But these Kumhos have performed very well in all aspects for close on 30,000 km so far, racked up over an exceptionally hot summer doing some loong hi-speed trips followed by about 1/3rd of the total kms in what has been a pretty wet winter & thru a whole lot of water on the road with nary the slightest concern....altho I hafta admit the rear is fully worn out now... Good thing I'm expecting to get different tires to play with some time in the next few weeks!