Sonic Tension Question.

[h0gr1der]

Ms Spyderlass has an RTL.
You can test the frequency of belt vibration easily enough if you have an Android device. Go to the Google play store and download an app for tuning an instrument, I use one called... Wait for it... Instrument tuner. I then use the guitar tuner function to listen to my belt and it gives a reading of the frequency in Hz when I pluck the belt. Surroundings need to be quiet because the belt isn't loud. If you have difficulty getting your device to hear the belt, pluck it and sing the frequency you are hearing and your device should hear that - Bob's yer uncle, it works for me!

Yeh, sing to your bike.

Ms Spyderlass,
I'm with Boileranimal. I reckon the 3 parameters that have to be input into the Gates unit is so that it can make the frequency to force conversion. I fear that if I tried to croak a tune I may irreparably scar the cylinders or cause the bearings to seize. Yes, it's that bad. But I do sound good drunk in the shower!

So I'm guessing the 950 Hz was supposed to read 950 Newtons, which is still way above the TSB from 2015 and the new specs in the service manual specifications section. Why do dealers continue to do this?

[h0gr1der]

Sorry first line said out of warranty limbo and i guess i misunderstood what you meant.

Cruzr Joe

Mr. Cruzr Joe,

My bad, I missed a word. Should have read warranty repair limbo. Please accept my apology for not being as concise as normal. The good thing is at all times I know what I mean, even if the rest of the world isn't in sync!

[Cruzr Joe]

Mr. Cruzr Joe,

My bad, I missed a word. Should have read warranty repair limbo. Please accept my apology for not being as concise as normal. The good thing is at all times I know what I mean, even if the rest of the world isn't in sync!

LOL I meant what you knew.

Cruzr Joe

[h0gr1der]

All,Many thanks to Mr EdMat for posting the link to the Gates Sonic Tester. Looks like we should be setting our belts in the 28-30 hz range.

https://assets.gates.com/content/dam...ES_NOBLEED.pdf

In that manual I found the formula to convert Hz to Newtons. I built a spreadsheet, but can't post it here, so I'll improvise.

Please verify my math, I'm can be a dumb-ass with math!

Formula: T = 4 x M x W x S2 x f 2 x 10-9
Where:
T = Belt span tension (Newtons)
M* = Belt mass constant (g/m)
W = Belt width (mm) or number of belt strands
S = Length of the span to be measured (mm)
f = Natural frequency of the belt (Hz)


The below is hacked from my spreadsheet, and uses Frequency to solve for tension;
The first 3 constants are from the service manual on setting tension with the sonic meter. My RTL has a 353mm sprocket.
Mass g/m 8.4
Width mm/R 28
Span mm 980 960400 (Span squared)
Frequency 28 784 (Frequency Squared)

Tension N 708.4 (Formula =4 x 8.4 x 28 x 960400 x 784 x 0.000000001)
Tension Lb 159.2 (Formula =Newtons*0.2248089)

[Jeriatric]

Found this and thought you would like to see it.


https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...and-Ipod-touch

[h0gr1der]

Found this and thought you would like to see it.


https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...and-Ipod-touch

Mr Jeriatric,

You're the man! My search MoJo must be lacking, that is exactly what I was looking for. The tech left my belt "at the lower end" at 950 Hz! Good lord, that thing must be tight!

I spent all day yesterday going over the bike, lowering the tension back to a reasonable number and aligning the wheel. The tech is working with outdated manuals or information, his specs for lowest at 200 lbs (what I found it at) is the old 1050N one. Vibrated like crazy. I figured with the formula provided by Mr EdMat that for the true lower end of around 160 lbs we'd be in the 28 Hz range, so the tech writing 950 Hz must be a typo of 950N.

[Jeriatric]

Mr Jeriatric,

You're the man! My search MoJo must be lacking, that is exactly what I was looking for. The tech left my belt "at the lower end" at 950 Hz! Good lord, that thing must be tight!

I spent all day yesterday going over the bike, lowering the tension back to a reasonable number and aligning the wheel. The tech is working with outdated manuals or information, his specs for lowest at 200 lbs (what I found it at) is the old 1050N one. Vibrated like crazy. I figured with the formula provided by Mr EdMat that for the true lower end of around 160 lbs we'd be in the 28 Hz range, so the tech writing 950 Hz must be a typo of 950N.

All credit goes to Doc Riverside & Roger. I just got lucky and stumbled across their work.

[PinkRosePetal]

...I spent all day yesterday going over the bike, lowering the tension back to a reasonable number and aligning the wheel. .....(what I found it at) is the old 1050N one. Vibrated like crazy..... we'd be in the 28 Hz...

Howdya like to report back re. the vibration at that low belt frequency?

[h0gr1der]

Howdya like to report back re. the vibration at that low belt frequency?

I spent yesterday adjusting the belt and pulling the plastic off looking for broke tabs after the service. I set the belt tension at about 150 on the ground with a Krikit II. Just put about 50 miles of interstate at various speeds, amazingly, no vibration.

The whole question stemmed from the service department over tightening my belt to the old spec, and then reporting that they left it at 950 Hz. I had to understand the Hz/Force correlation before I can provide them constructive criticism. 950 Hz would be 815449 Newtons. If they typo'd and meant 950 Newtons, that's still way above the new spec.

[PinkRosePetal]

I spent yesterday adjusting the belt .....50 miles of interstate at various speeds, amazingly, no vibration.

Ta.

[greybeard]

when the tec changed my front belt pulley I asked him to not make it so tight. He doesn't know anything about a cricket, but said the sonic reading was supposed to be 700 plus or minus. He told me he set it at 400, when I checked with the cricket it was 210 lbs. 2000 miles ago he put a new rear tire on and left the belt tight as a banjo string. Was this the reason the front pulley destroyed itself?

[h0gr1der]

when the tec changed my front belt pulley I asked him to not make it so tight. He doesn't know anything about a cricket, but said the sonic reading was supposed to be 700 plus or minus. He told me he set it at 400, when I checked with the cricket it was 210 lbs. 2000 miles ago he put a new rear tire on and left the belt tight as a banjo string. Was this the reason the front pulley destroyed itself?

I'm not sure. I've been in communication with someone who uses a sonic tester, and his is set to return Newtons. 700 Newtons is around 157 Lbs of Krikit force, and if taken with wheel off the ground (as the dealerships do) may very well result in tensions close to 180-200 lbs. 400 Newtons is 89 Lbs, and is likely to result in about 120-130 Lbs with the wheel on the ground.

After all the experimentation I've done regarding belt vibrations, I'm firmly in the less is better camp, as long as it doesn't cause the belt to ride up and damage the teeth. I know I've read the F3 models have more pulley failures, the RT's less so. F3's run less tension than RT's, but also have shorter belts. Can't say one way or the other. Could be riding style, F3's are sportier, RT's are cruisers. May be riding style.

[trikermutha]

OK..what is the new pec for the 1330 RT for tension on the belt? I see all kinds of numbers on this thread not sure what the real newton number is suppose to be

I know there was a bulletin posted awhile back.

[Jeriatric]

OK..what is the new pec for the 1330 RT for tension on the belt? I see all kinds of numbers on this thread not sure what the real newton number is suppose to be

I know there was a bulletin posted awhile back.

DELETED: Outdated Info

[trikermutha]

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...and-Ipod-touch

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...t=belt+tension post #10

That is showing the original recommended spec, needed the new recommneded bulletin tension spec . This would be for the 2014 Models on up. (1050N plus or minus is the book spec. )

[Jeriatric]

That is showing the original recommended spec, needed the new recommneded bulletin tension spec . This would be for the 2014 Models on up. (1050N plus or minus is the book spec. )

Thanks!

It's an ever changing world. Time to update my notes.

[h0gr1der]

That is showing the original recommended spec, needed the new recommneded bulletin tension spec . This would be for the 2014 Models on up. (1050N plus or minus is the book spec. )

Trikermutha,

My service manuals (2018 & 2019 RT) are both broken up into 2 sections. In the front under the drive section it has the old 1050 N ±150 spec. Apparently this is the one the dealers use.

Farther in the back under the Technical Specifications- Vehicle section, the drive section lists a lower specification of 775N ± 150N. That puts my minimum tension at 141 Lbs by the new manuals. If you reference the old 2015 TSB you can go all the way down to 119 Lbs. I'm at 150 lbs on the ground, and quite happy with that.

This is from my 2019 manual;
Belt Tension.jpg

[trikermutha]

Thanks!

It's an ever changing world. Time to update my notes.

No Problem I know I saved it someplace myself but can not find it..

[trikermutha]

Trikermutha,

My service manuals (2018 & 2019 RT) are both broken up into 2 sections. In the front under the drive section it has the old 1050 N ±150 spec. Apparently this is the one the dealers use.

Farther in the back under the Technical Specifications- Vehicle section, the drive section lists a lower specification of 775N ± 150N. That puts my minimum tension at 141 Lbs by the new manuals. If you reference the old 2015 TSB you can go all the way down to 119 Lbs. I'm at 150 lbs on the ground, and quite happy with that.

This is from my 2019 manual;
Belt Tension.jpg

THanks

I know I set mine around the 850N range, now I know it can be lower than that if needed. Also once on the ground that doubles your original numbers Tested mine while off the ground and on the ground.

[h0gr1der]

THanks

I know I set mine around the 850N range, now I know it can be lower than that if needed. Also once on the ground that doubles your original numbers Tested mine while off the ground and on the ground.

Mr. Trikermutha,

Mine didn't anywhere near double, but I only measured at the low end of the scale. I set mine at 110 in the air, with the wheel off the ground and belt dampener off the belt. Gain about 10 Lbs when the belt dampener is on the belt, wheel off the ground, so up to around 120 lbs. On the ground tension increased to between 140-150 Lbs. That's where I run mine. It's smooth for me.

[trikermutha]

Mr. Trikermutha,

Mine didn't anywhere near double, but I only measured at the low end of the scale. I set mine at 110 in the air, with the wheel off the ground and belt dampener off the belt. Gain about 10 Lbs when the belt dampener is on the belt, wheel off the ground, so up to around 120 lbs. On the ground tension increased to between 140-150 Lbs. That's where I run mine. It's smooth for me.

Guess I will have to recheck my settings then

[Doc - Riverside]

All,

Just got my machine (2018 RTL) out of warranty limbo, checked it over before riding home and wouldn't you know it, the belt is too tight and vibrating. Even with the dampener on the belt.

Looking through the paperwork on the 3000 mile service, the tech acknowledged everything I asked them to do. I run the axle torque at 25% less due to lubricant on the threads, don't fold my split pin over, just slightly spread it, etc.

In reporting the belt request, I had asked them to skip the belt unless they couldn't. Paperwork said belt far outside of spec, set to minimum spec as per customer. They then reported the spec as 950 Hz.

For those of you that use sonic testers, is this a typo? Did they mean 950 Newtons? I saw ± 200 Lbs on the Krikit II, and 950 Newtons is 213.5 Lbs. converted.

I suspect 950 Hz would be somewhat high.

The number 950hz would equate to 776,619.3 newtons belt tension so the number on your paperwork has to be newtons. Apple devices has proven to work well with the Gated App. Android products didn't give consistent results because of the lower quality electronics. See this link I did in 2014.

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...and-Ipod-touch

[h0gr1der]

The number 950hz would equate to 776,619.3 newtons belt tension so the number on your paperwork has to be newtons. Apple devices has proven to work well with the Gated App. Android products didn't give consistent results because of the lower quality electronics. See this link I did in 2014.

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...and-Ipod-touch

Mr. Doc,

I cobbled up a spreadsheet in MS Excel that solves for Newtons using Hertz. Any audio measuring device should work, but some of the numbers I'm hearing from folks doing this are questionable. I tried one of those apps on my Android and didn't find it repeatable. I'll stick with my tried and true Krikit II. Either way, the dealer over-tightened my belt. I sent the service manager some feedback, with both the positive comments and some constructive criticism, if they're smart enough to actually study the problem and use it.

[RudyB]

I couldn’t find this app for I-Phone

[Jeriatric]

I couldn’t find this app for I-Phone

https://www.gatescarbondrive.com/products/tools