possible cause for fires?

[csmead]

I wanted to get this out ASAP and so I am starting a new thread (however same bike, same continuing issues). I had posted:

.....However, driving through gears 1-3, the bike pops, backfires and tries to die. ...

Received call from service dept. "...arching from spark plug cap to Head."
Service dept said that it was a good thing that I did not try to drive it home. Parts on order....etc.

If gas vapors had built up and arching would have occurred? Would this possibly started a fire?

[Firefly]

Unfortunatley the Spyders that caught fire were all parked and not running.

I feel sorry that you have had so many Spyder woes!!!

Good luck with the repairs!

[Don in E Texas]

Unfortunatley the Spyders that caught fire were all parked and not running.

I feel sorry that you have had so many Spyder woes!!!

Good luck with the repairs!

All the Spyder's had just been shut down from a run. Smoke was detected shortly after shut down. Could have started while engine was running?

None of the fires were while the bikes were on the road ... maybe that is a clue? Engine heat increases when you shut it off - engine compartment is hotter at that point than any other time. Maybe a fan is needed in the engine compartment? Just guessing -- like everyone....

Hope your Spyder is repaired to your satisfaction

don

[zzneonzz]

All the Spyder's had just been shut down from a run. Smoke was detected shortly after shut down. Could have started while engine was running?

None of the fires were while the bikes were on the road ... maybe that is a clue? Engine heat increases when you shut it off - engine compartment is hotter at that point than any other time. Maybe a fan is needed in the engine compartment? Just guessing -- like everyone....

Hope your Spyder is repaired to your satisfaction

don

I have smelt what appears to be something burning on my spyder so i took all the panels off and found that the exhaust had burned some of the heat shield from the body panel. Its no longer making contact but did for a while.

[BajaRon]

I don't think it will prevent any fires, but wrapping the exhaust with fiber tape from a few inches back from the head to where it exits behind the engine reduces overall heat.

It really reduces engine compartment temps and heat on you, engine components, side panels and the fuel tank.

It also quiets engine noise somewhat.

The narrow tape is easier to do than the wide stuff.

[bjt]

I don't think it will prevent any fires, but wrapping the exhaust with fiber tape from a few inches back from the head to where it exits behind the engine reduces overall heat.

It really reduces engine compartment temps and heat on you, engine components, side panels and the fuel tank.

It also quiets engine noise somewhat.

The narrow tape is easier to do than the wide stuff.

Did you pull the pipes to wrap yours that much or did you work on it with everything attached to the motor? Looking into those somewhat cramped spaces has kept me procrastinating on doing any exhaust wrapping.

[WaltH]

Unfortunatley the Spyders that caught fire were all parked and not running. !

The fire on my Spyder occurred while the engine was running as I pulled into the garage. The first thing I did was to shut off the ignition and then I pushed the Spyder out of the garage. Check out my original post.

[Firefly]

The fire on my Spyder occurred while the engine was running as I pulled into the garage. The first thing I did was to shut off the ignition and then I pushed the Spyder out of the garage. Check out my original post.

Sorry --- didn't realize it was still running.

This is just too strange.

Has anyone had their pipes ceramic coated?

[2spyders]

I know that it made me add full coverage to my Spyder insurance today ... just in case...

[Motza]

I don't think it will prevent any fires, but wrapping the exhaust with fiber tape from a few inches back from the head to where it exits behind the engine reduces overall heat.

It really reduces engine compartment temps and heat on you, engine components, side panels and the fuel tank.

It also quiets engine noise somewhat.

The narrow tape is easier to do than the wide stuff.

What a good idea where do you get fiber tape and how many layers do you wrap? How often does the wrap have to be changed?

[SPYMAN]

What a good idea where do you get fiber tape and how many layers do you wrap? How often does the wrap have to be changed?

I bought mine at auto zone, But most any auto parts store will have the wrap!
Single layer with some over lap.
I did mine a year ago and still looks like the day I put it on ( I have put 8000 miles in the last year.
As for life exspectance not sure as this is the first time I have used this product. But like I said a year later and looking good!!!

SPYMAN

[Motza]

I bought mine at auto zone, But most any auto parts store will have the wrap!
Single layer with some over lap.
I did mine a year ago and still looks like the day I put it on ( I have put 8000 miles in the last year.
As for life exspectance not sure as this is the first time I have used this product. But like I said a year later and looking good!!!

SPYMAN

And it really keeps the heat down that much?

[ptoemmes]

...

If gas vapors had built up and arching would have occurred? Would this possibly started a fire?

I have always been under the impression that fuel vapors - in the proper concentration - are much worse due to a potential (near) explosive effect when an ignition source is present.

I assume raw liquid fuel will/car vaporize especially if it hits a hot surface like an exhaust pipe, but is a hot exhaust pipe a good ignition source for vaporized fuel? How about oil? I do not know.

When you smell gasoline you are smelling the vaporizing of the fuel. I suppose that's "obvious".

Vapors probably know no boundary under the tupperware, but I am now curious of the relative location of the vapor cannister, exhaust pipe(s) and spark plug(s)

Would anyone how knows please clarify and correct me?

Thanks,

Pete

[NancysToy]

I have always been under the impression that fuel vapors - in the proper concentration - are much worse due to a potential (near) explosive effect when an ignition source is present.

I assume raw liquid fuel will/car vaporize especially if it hits a hot surface like an exhaust pipe, but is a hot exhaust pipe a good ignition source for vaporized fuel? How about oil? I do not know.

When you smell gasoline you are smelling the vaporizing of the fuel. I suppose that's "obvious".

Vapors probably know no boundary under the tupperware, but I am now curious of the relative location of the vapor cannister, exhaust pipe(s) and spark plug(s)

Would anyone how knows please clarify and correct me?

Thanks,

Pete

You are correct in that you need either fuel vapors or atomized fuel in the proper concentration to ignite. Normally, despite the smell, that concentration is not present. Raw fuel spilling onto a hot exhaust can ignite readily. The raw fuel vaporizes quickly when it hits the exhaust, building up at least a local concentration that is flammable.

About the Spyder:
The evap canister is meant to take vapors from the fuel tank vent, and absorb them in the carbon so they are not released to the atmoshpere as harmful emissions. I'll leave it to you as to how well they work if you can smell gas. The Spyder canister (and fuel filter) are away from the exhaust on the right side, and away from the spark plug on the front head. It would take a fair amount of build-up under the body panels to reach these ignition sources. The Spyder bodywork is well ventilated, unless modified. Look at all the little "mesh" panels. The closest hot object is the engine. The metal surfaces on water cooled engines run much cooler than on conventional air-cooled motorcycles. These do not catch on fire with great regularity, so the Spyder should be safer still.

I would not worry about such things as the design and placement of the Spyder components. If there is a design problem here, I expect they will address it. Until then, inspect the area regularly for damaged or worn fuel system components, and try to keep it clean of any combustible materials like oil leakage. This will all work out.
-Scotty

[Firefly]

FWIW - I've spilled gas right onto hot engine parts before and never had it ignite.

[igor]

I agree that small quantity of fuel not burn so quick without any existing fire because it evaporate wery quick.
What do you think about oil on air box? I take off panels and clean it a little bit. It was realy full of oil. I think that oil on plastic is more dangerous.

I must admit since i read "fire" posts a dont fill it up to the max. On my longest trip i fill it to the top every time. Really top, because i didn`t know where is next gas station in Moldova and some parts of Ukraina. I didnt notice any extra smell.

I would like to know how many fuel was in this burned Spyders.

[NancysToy]

The reason that spilled gas doesn't always ignite is due to the range of concentrations where it is flammable. Too low a percentage of the combustible material and it can't ignite. Too high and the same occurs. Withing the flammable concentration range, combustion can occur, provided there is sufficient oxygen plus an ignition source. Hard to build up a flammable concentration in open air, especially with a volatile fuel that evaporates and dissipates quickly. In a closed space, it is another story all together, but conditions must still be just right. It is easy to build above the flammable concentration in a closed space.
-Scotty

[vt228]

I agree that small quantity of fuel not burn so quick without any existing fire because it evaporate wery quick.
What do you think about oil on air box? I take off panels and clean it a little bit. It was realy full of oil. I think that oil on plastic is more dangerous.

I must admit since i read "fire" posts a dont fill it up to the max. On my longest trip i fill it to the top every time. Really top, because i didn`t know where is next gas station in Moldova and some parts of Ukraina. I didnt notice any extra smell.

I would like to know how many fuel was in this burned Spyders.

do ;amonster oil relay it works no oil in air box anymore

[chris56]

last year as a spy-shavetail i checked my oil the first time ..
found out (after that crazy procedure ) that its on the lowest level..
NOWHERE i could´t find - how much oil you should fill in to come from the minimum to the maximum .. bought 1liter..filled in a lot..(much to much)
(coming home from my tour - my friend put it back..)
i wrote them to fit a sticker on the oil-tank (don´t know if they did)
also maybe the way to control the oil-level has to be changed ...?
so i feel most of the riders also fill in to much oil !
mine one (nearly 10.000 mls) needs no oil from one change to the other..
so - scotty ? whats happening if you have too much oil ??
chris

[NancysToy]

last year as a spy-shavetail i checked my oil the first time ..
found out (after that crazy procedure ) that its on the lowest level..
NOWHERE i could´t find - how much oil you should fill in to come from the minimum to the maximum .. bought 1liter..filled in a lot..(much to much)
(coming home from my tour - my friend put it back..)
i wrote them to fit a sticker on the oil-tank (don´t know if they did)
also maybe the way to control the oil-level has to be changed ...?
so i feel most of the riders also fill in to much oil !
mine one (nearly 10.000 mls) needs no oil from one change to the other..
so - scotty ? whats happening if you have too much oil ??
chris

In a dry sump system like this, there should be little problem except increased blow-by (oil into airbox). That is for small amounts over. Way too much and you can restrict the return line, making the oil foam upon return to the tank, and possibly backing up the scavenging pump and wet sumping the system (oil remaining in the crankcase). A bit over is a nuisance...a lot over can be a real problem. An oil suction gun is quite cheap at the auto parts store, and can take care of adjustments for you.
-Scotty

[Mo Lee]

First of all I'm not jumping on (The Sky is Falling Band Wagon) however due to recent posts I decided to pull my plastics for only the second time since purchase this morning to take a look. Based on my findings I will be doing the LaMonster mod to the crankcase vent as soon as I gather the needed parts. Mine wasn't bad however I would like to keep it clean.
Two things concern me and that is the foam rubber pieces in the area where some say the fires started. There is foam rubber glued to the inside of the side panels near the exhaust pipe, I also noticed it collects liquids well since I could squeeze water out where I had washed it yesterday, I guess it could also absorb fuel and oil as easy. In front of the fuel tank beside the Frame backbone there is more foam and one piece was starting to come loose and the location is directly above the exhaust pipe where it would land if it fell. I pinched off a piece of this foam and it ignites pretty quickly with a lighter and I would guess if it ignited it could also ignite the plastic body panels.
This is just my thoughts and I'm not a fireman however I do consider myself somewhat of a mechanic. Here is the pictures of what I'm talking about guess I should point out I'm not a photographer either.

[Jeriatric]

What I've noticed running around town and doing errands is that each time I fire the Spyder off it POPS back through the air filter (much like a poor timing backfire in the days of old). I'm wondering? Could this possibly be a cause of some of the fires. If their are vapors built up under the seat from the gas cap vent and you fire th Spyder off, as it belches back through the air filter that could ignite any fumes that may be collecting from the cap vent. Don't know for sure.....just hunching.

[MikeinGA]

Sorry --- didn't realize it was still running.

This is just too strange.

Has anyone had their pipes ceramic coated?

I used Titanium exhaust wrap on the front header. It keeps the left engine compartment a lot cooler and the rider. I'm going to do rear header next to get the high heat away from the gas tank, the brake master cyclinder, fuel lines, fuel filter and other plastic parts. I looked into getting the header pipes coated and it was more money than I wanted to put into my Spyder. That's IMHO,

Mike