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  1. #1
    Thinks out loud Jeriatric's Avatar
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    Default 2008/2013 990/998 V Twin Owners - XPS M Rated Oil versus OTHER Oils Rated API 'M'

    As suspected, but wanted to see it in writing.

    BRP specially formulated their API M rated oil geared towards use in ALL Spyder's.

    That said, as noted below. Use of MOST other oil with API M rating is still NOT recommended - Per the 2 responses below from XPS Lubricant representatives.

    That too, is exactly as thought.

    Trust but verify.


    Response #1 addressed to GK72Cane

    XPS_Lubricants <info@xpslubricants.com>
    11:55 AM (37 minutes ago)
    to me

    Hi Gary,

    Thanks for the question.

    The new bottle has the same 5W-40 oil as previously used and called Summer Grade, we just updated the packaging with new labels and bottle design.

    In terms of the literature that recommends prior oil generations, the reason for the recommendation to NOT use SM is that many formulations with this API service level are formulated with types of friction modifiers that cause wet clutch slippage.

    XPS is formulated with precise friction to optimize the wet clutch performance of the Spyder, yet maintains API SM service level.

    So most oils in the market that say API SM would not meet the specific requirements for Can Am, however the XPS product does meet the requirements for the clutch as well as meeting API SM service levels.

    Thank you,

    XPS Lubricants


    Response #2 addressed to Spyderman14RSS

    Hi Derek,

    Thanks for the question.

    You have the correct oil in your kit for your machine.

    In terms of the literature that recommends prior oil generations, the reason for the recommendation to NOT use SM is that many formulations with this API service level are formulated with types of friction modifiers that cause wet clutch slippage.

    XPS is formulated with precise friction to optimize the wet clutch performance of the Spyder, yet maintains API SM service level.

    So most oils in the market that say API SM would not meet the specific requirements for Can Am, however the XPS product does meet the requirements for the clutch as well as meeting API SM service levels.

    Thank you,

    XPS Lubricants


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  2. #2
    Active Member Sarge's Avatar
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    NAOT! (Not Another Oil Thread)

    Oh man. Can of worms here. I have been using AMSOIL since 2000 in literally everything I own that needs oil. Cars, trucks, lawnmowers, tractors, weed eaters, chainsaws, pressure washers, generators, gas and electric motors, firearms and general lubrication needs to include grease for bearings etc.

    There are NO Friction modifiers in AMSOIL motorcycle oils ...

    "AMSOIL Synthetic Metric Motorcycle Oil API SM, JASO MA/MA2 contains no friction modifiers and promotes smooth shifting and positive clutch engagement. It is engineered to control heat and prevent slippage and glazing, promoting longer clutch life. "

    I know this will stir up controversial conversations, so I will just say use whatever oil you are comfortable with and be happy.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 09-17-2023 at 05:04 PM. Reason: Moved Post title into text - many only see Thread titles, and post titles mess with Searching! ;-)
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  3. #3
    Thinks out loud Jeriatric's Avatar
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    It is well documented that Amsoil is Okay.

    That said, NEW owners of older machines should know,

    "most oils in the market that say API SM would not meet the specific requirements for Can Am"

    Simply trying to save NEW folks from some headaches.


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  4. #4
    Active Member Sarge's Avatar
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    We are on the same page Jeriatric.
    Ride Safe.
    Shoot Straight.
    Speak the Truth.

    David & Deb Parsons
    "Sarge"
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  5. #5
    Very Active Member ARtraveler's Avatar
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    Yes....keeping it friendly is good.

    Currently Owned: 2019 F3 Limited, 2020 F3 Limited: SOLD BOTH LIMITEDS in October of 2023.

    Previously : 2008 GS-SM5 (silver), 2009 RS-SE5 (red), 2010 RT-S Premier Editon #474 (black) 2011 RT A&C SE5 (magnesium) 2014 RTS-SE6 (yellow)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Oh man. Can of worms here. I have been using AMSOIL since 2000 in literally everything I own that needs oil. Cars, trucks, lawnmowers, tractors, weed eaters, chainsaws, pressure washers, generators, gas and electric motors, firearms and general lubrication needs to include grease for bearings etc.

    There are NO Friction modifiers in AMSOIL motorcycle oils ...

    "AMSOIL Synthetic Metric Motorcycle Oil API SM, JASO MA/MA2 contains no friction modifiers and promotes smooth shifting and positive clutch engagement. It is engineered to control heat and prevent slippage and glazing, promoting longer clutch life. "

    I know this will stir up controversial conversations, so I will just say use whatever oil you are comfortable with and be happy.
    I have run Amsoil in most everything I have and have had since the early 1970's it works great
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 09-17-2023 at 05:05 PM. Reason: Colour

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    Thinks out loud Jeriatric's Avatar
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    Been using it for years myself. Other than a costly mistake(another post), and the oil it was delivered with, it's the only oil this Spyder has ever known.





    EDIT: changed suing it to using it
    Last edited by ARtraveler; 07-18-2019 at 05:20 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeriatric View Post
    Been suing it for years myself. Other than a costly mistake(another post), and the oil it was delivered with, it's the only oil this Spyder has ever known.
    "Using" I would guess.
    Eckhard

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    Are there other oils that work? Please let me know.

    Thanks
    Eckhard

    Spyder RT Ltd, 2011
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    Thinks out loud Jeriatric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckhard View Post
    "Using" I would guess.
    Yup Thanks & I'll correct that too.


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  11. #11
    Thinks out loud Jeriatric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckhard View Post
    Are there other oils that work? Please let me know.

    Thanks
    Owner's manual calls for API SL, SJ, SH and SG.

    May find this worth the read. Check the API classification of each.

    https://bestsyntheticoilguide.com/sy...le-oil-review/


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  12. #12
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    It has always been true that a few 'SM' rated oils will work in the 998 engines. SM means friction modifiers (additives which reduce friction). You don't want friction anywhere EXCEPT in your wet clutch which depends on friction to work. Blending an oil that does both well (protect parts from friction at the same time providing friction properties for the wet clutch) adds a level of complexity and compromise. Reduced friction is great for engines. Possibly fatal for wet clutches.

    Just had a customer contact me about their slipping clutch from using a lubricant which works well in most wet clutch applications. But as we know, the SM5/SE5 Spyders have a very lubricant picky clutch. Unfortunately, this customer did not catch the slipping condition soon enough. It's a very costly fix.

    There are a number of oils out there that will work just fine in the 998 Rotax. The message here is that there are also a good number of lubricants that you might think will work, but they will not. Many stick to the BRP (which is Castrol) product to be safe, which is fine. But but in doing so, they are missing out on superior lubricant options available.

    I cringe when people say 'I use brand 'X' and it works great in my Spyder'. But they do not mention that they have a 1330 motor with a completely different clutch, not subject to the same lubricant sensitive issues as the 998 Spyders. This may cause a 998 owner to think this same lubricant will work in their Spyder, and get stung with clutch slippage. Make sure you are talking Apples to Apples when it comes to Spyder oil.

    If you catch clutch slippage soon enough. A simple oil change to an appropriate oil will correct the situation. Some are more sensitive to clutch slippage than others. Some don't notice any clutch slippage until it is too late.
    Last edited by BajaRon; 07-18-2019 at 06:45 PM.
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    What about some brand names please. Is there a Castrol, Mobil 1, Pennzoil flavor that I can buy. Most synthetic oils I see now are SM and even SN rated. There are even some that are dexos1 and ILSAC GF-5 rated, whatever that is, with no mention of the API grades.

    TIA
    Eckhard

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    SpyderLovers Sponsor Motorcycledave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckhard View Post
    Are there other oils that work? Please let me know.

    Thanks
    Castrol GTX full synthetic 10/40

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    Well this is all a little confusing for us first time 998 spyder SE5 owners... Im intending to do my own servicing here in the UK.... so perhaps I should stick to oil from the dealer rather than trying to find one that suits my spyder and ending up with a slipping clutch!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curlytops View Post
    Well this is all a little confusing for us first time 998 spyder SE5 owners... Im intending to do my own servicing here in the UK.... so perhaps I should stick to oil from the dealer rather than trying to find one that suits my spyder and ending up with a slipping clutch!
    The BRP lubricants are adequate, but more expensive than the same product purchased elsewhere. It isn't difficult to find a much superior oil that works well with the 998 clutch, usually at a lower cost. In my opinion, a much better way to go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Oh man. Can of worms here. I have been using AMSOIL since 2000 in literally everything I own that needs oil. Cars, trucks, lawnmowers, tractors, weed eaters, chainsaws, pressure washers, generators, gas and electric motors, firearms and general lubrication needs to include grease for bearings etc.

    There are NO Friction modifiers in AMSOIL motorcycle oils ...

    "AMSOIL Synthetic Metric Motorcycle Oil API SM, JASO MA/MA2 contains no friction modifiers and promotes smooth shifting and positive clutch engagement. It is engineered to control heat and prevent slippage and glazing, promoting longer clutch life. "

    I know this will stir up controversial conversations, so I will just say use whatever oil you are comfortable with and be happy.
    There is Molybdenum in Amsoil 10W40 Metric Motorcycle Oil, found that in oil analysis.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 09-17-2023 at 05:08 PM. Reason: Fixed quote display ;-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaRon View Post
    The BRP lubricants are adequate, but more expensive than the same product purchased elsewhere. It isn't difficult to find a much superior oil that works well with the 998 clutch, usually at a lower cost. In my opinion, a much better way to go.
    Care to name them please? I have to use up those seals and filters I bought from you earlier on.

    Thanks.
    Eckhard

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    Very Active Member Highwayman2013's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckhard View Post
    Care to name them please? I have to use up those seals and filters I bought from you earlier on.

    Thanks.
    Well there is Amsoil 10W40 Metric Motorcycle oil that Ron sells. Lamonster has a 5W40 Spectro oil.
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    I've always strayed away from most oil threads as they usually become a real "PIA".
    I've had several motorcycles that I used the Shell Rotella Synthetic oil in with no problems after many 1,000"s of miles. These were all Jap bikes though.

    However now that I just bought a used 2015 Spyder I know I'm dealing with a different animal. And since the thread has made reference to the 998 engine, I'm wondering does the 1330 requires something different.

    And what about the filter? I see the Can Am oil change kit is pushing $90.
    Can you get the filter at Auto Zone, O'Rielly's, etc along with the correct oil of your choice?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimSter View Post
    I've always strayed away from most oil threads as they usually become a real "PIA".
    I've had several motorcycles that I used the Shell Rotella Synthetic oil in with no problems after many 1,000"s of miles. These were all Jap bikes though.

    However now that I just bought a used 2015 Spyder I know I'm dealing with a different animal. And since the thread has made reference to the 998 engine, I'm wondering does the 1330 requires something different.

    And what about the filter? I see the Can Am oil change kit is pushing $90.
    Can you get the filter at Auto Zone, O'Rielly's, etc along along with the correct oil of your choice?
    The 1330 is pretty much able to handle any JASO rated MA2 oil out there. Similar to the Japanese bikes. It isn't a problem. It is the 998's that have a very temperamental clutch. I do not know if is the clutch friction material, clutch spring pressure, or a combination of both. But the 998 clutch/oil issues do not translate to the 1330.

    The only aftermarket oil filters I know of are Bike Master, HiFlo and K&N. And no one makes the extended transmission filter for the SE5 anymore. K&N did, but they discontinued manufacture of that filter earlier this year. The only vehicle on the planet that uses that filter is the SE5 Spyder. Just not enough volume to bother with.
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    Am new to riding a 2012 Spyder RT SE5... Bike had 1700miles. Like new... When I hit 2000miles I changed the oil. Not knowing if it was changed earlier... So here is my question: when shifting up, 1-2 2-3. 3-4 sometimes 4-5...I sometimes ge what I assume a smooth engagement of gear... At other times I get a (not sure how to call it) clank noise.

    Clank is at lower RPMS. 4K. If I shift at 4500 or 5k rpms, mostly get a smooth transition between gears...
    After changing the oil, seems more often than not I get the smooth s transition... Which should it be? Which is less tear and wear? Appreciate input... Does the smooth mean clutch is slipping?
    2012 RTS SE5 , Spider Web Brake pedal Orbital blue

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    Sorry, am using the FACTORY OIL recommendation. XPS
    2012 RTS SE5 , Spider Web Brake pedal Orbital blue

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by CADRE View Post
    Am new to riding a 2012 Spyder RT SE5... Bike had 1700miles. Like new... When I hit 2000miles I changed the oil. Not knowing if it was changed earlier... So here is my question: when shifting up, 1-2 2-3. 3-4 sometimes 4-5...I sometimes ge what I assume a smooth engagement of gear... At other times I get a (not sure how to call it) clank noise.

    Clank is at lower RPMS. 4K. If I shift at 4500 or 5k rpms, mostly get a smooth transition between gears...
    After changing the oil, seems more often than not I get the smooth s transition... Which should it be? Which is less tear and wear? Appreciate input... Does the smooth mean clutch is slipping?
    Stick with shifting at 5K 'or above'.

    If you want to know if your clutch is slipping? Once you're in fifth gear roll on the throttle(nail it) and watch your tach. If the tach shoots up but your speed doesn't.....it is slipping. If a clutch is really bad it'll slip(when nailing it) in any gear.

    Doubt your clutch is slipping, but at 4K you're shifting really early for the 998.........unless....you're a Sunday driver.


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    What do you guys think about this one?

    Valvoline™ 4-Stroke Full Synthetic Motorcycle Oil

    Use Valvoline full synthetic motorcycle oil, it is formulated for the specific needs of motorcycles, including high temperatures, high RPMs, and wet clutch systems. Additional product benefits include:

    Synthetic formulation maximizes power and acceleration
    Outstanding wet clutch protection for maximum power transfer and smooth shifting
    Added protection against harmful deposits that can decrease engine performance
    Excellent wear corrosion protection to help keep your engine performaing at its best

    Standards: Meets or Exceeds API SF/SG/SJ, JASO MA2

    Been using it for about 3K miles. ST-L with 998 V Twin

    Think it is OK?

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