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  1. #1
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Default Handlebar looseness

    Take a look at this video. It shows how much play there is in my RTS handlebar.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/0tm80c3e2u...01354.mp4?dl=0

    Has anyone else experienced this? How much play, if any, is normal? The best I can tell it looks like the play is in the ball joints at the steering column end of the tie rods.

    2014 Copper RTS

    Tri-Axis bars, CB, BajaRon sway bar & shock adjusters, SpyderPop's Bumpskid, NBV peg brackets, LED headlights and modulator, Wolo trumpet air horns, trailer hitch, custom trailer harness, high mount turn signals, Custom Dynamics brake light, LED turn signal lights on mirrors, LED strip light for a dash light, garage door opener, LED lights in frunk, trunk, and saddlebags, RAM mounts and cradles for tablet (for GPS) and phone (for music), and Smooth Spyder belt tensioner.
    2014 RTS , Copper! (officially Cognac)

  2. #2
    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    Looks pretty much standard to me, not that we can really see all that much to judge!?

    It might be better to show us one END of the bars looking down over the top of a wheel so we can see the distance the end of the bar travels before the wheel starts moving (& maybe see one tie-rod end too?)

    And please bear in mind that the DPS will 'take up' some of that handle bar movement once you do actually start moving the Spyder, and altho you've shown us what yours does while the Spyder's standing still with the engine running, at least some of that movement is likely due to the 'slack' built into the top end of the system due to the elec steering assist....

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  3. #3
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    The tierod ends are of variable quality, I've had tight ones and ones so slack when new that I wouldn't put them on to the bike.

    To check them you need an assistant: Put your hand around the joint and hold it gently but completely, have someone rock the front wheel side to side to load and unload the joint. If you feel it knock it has play in it.

    You can reach in through the suspension to check the inner ones. It's not uncommon to have one good and one bad on the same side of the bike.

    I don't know about your area but here it's not possible to buy just the end, we have to buy a complete tierod assembly. If you do this, check the ends before you fit them.

    For info: If you rock the wheel top to bottom you can check for top ball joint play in a similar way.

    Just watched your vid, I'd say you have some wear or looseness in there, it's very free and kinda clicky in appearance.

  4. #4
    Thinks out loud Jeriatric's Avatar
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    Just checked my 2011 RT. Engine off, and the free play movement is similar. I'm thinking most of that disappears once the bike is running. At least that's what memory tells me.


    Identify what you have control over and find peace with what you don't.

  5. #5
    Thinks out loud Jeriatric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyderlass View Post
    The tierod ends are of variable quality, I've had tight ones and ones so slack when new that I wouldn't put them on to the bike.

    To check them you need an assistant: Put your hand around the joint and hold it gently but completely, have someone rock the front wheel side to side to load and unload the joint. If you feel it knock it has play in it.

    You can reach in through the suspension to check the inner ones. It's not uncommon to have one good and one bad on the same side of the bike.

    I don't know about your area but here it's not possible to buy just the end, we have to buy a complete tierod assembly. If you do this, check the ends before you fit them.

    For info: If you rock the wheel top to bottom you can check for top ball joint play in a similar way.
    Has it been your experience that the ball joint problem generally presents itself with a noticeable front end shake?


    Identify what you have control over and find peace with what you don't.

  6. #6
    Very Active Member jtoro1's Avatar
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    On mine the looseness came from the steering rod the bottom coupling being loose on the spline all fixed

  7. #7
    Very Active Member JayBros's Avatar
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    I have had the same situation on mine from the get go but once running and on the road I notice none.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtoro1 View Post
    On mine the looseness came from the steering rod the bottom coupling being loose on the spline all fixed
    I think that's a good catch and worth checking.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeriatric View Post
    Has it been your experience that the ball joint problem generally presents itself with a noticeable front end shake?
    Well, it was a progressive wheel shake while braking that alerted me to a problem. The cause of the shake was an out of true front hub, discussed on another thread, but the tierod was replaced first and gave better control of the errant wheel.

    So, to answer your question, I've not ridden with only the worn tierod ends. I wouldn't imagine you'd have a wheel wobble but I'd bet the steering would feel even more waney because the wheel would be free to follow road imperfections.

  10. #10
    Thinks out loud Jeriatric's Avatar
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    Good to know.

    Similar shake problem here but it was totally due to ball joint failure.


    Identify what you have control over and find peace with what you don't.

  11. #11
    Very Active Member bcer960's Avatar
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    I am getting my ball joints replaced next week. I have noticed some shaking this year that i didn't remember from last year. Thought maybe I had chucked a weight on one wheel. But it does smooth out some times too. I'll report back after they are done. I am getting new front tires put on at the same time, so they will have to re-balance them, so my findings may say what the issue was. I am getting un-even wear on my left tire.

    As for the handle bar play, mine is about the same as what is shown in the vid. I checked it with a couple of other bike when i first got mine. They were about the same.
    Ray

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  12. #12
    Thinks out loud Jeriatric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcer960 View Post
    I am getting my ball joints replaced next week. I have noticed some shaking this year that i didn't remember from last year. Thought maybe I had chucked a weight on one wheel. But it does smooth out some times too. I'll report back after they are done. I am getting new front tires put on at the same time, so they will have to re-balance them, so my findings may say what the issue was. I am getting un-even wear on my left tire.

    As for the handle bar play, mine is about the same as what is shown in the vid. I checked it with a couple of other bike when i first got mine. They were about the same.
    Ray
    Have you had it laser aligned?


    Identify what you have control over and find peace with what you don't.

  13. #13
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    The play in your bars looks EXACTLY like mine. I have a '16 RT-S. I don't think you have anything to worry about.
    Bill W

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  14. #14
    Very Active Member bcer960's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeriatric View Post
    Have you had it laser aligned?
    No I haven't.
    It's a 2017 and I have put 41,000 kms on it. Up till I noticed th4e shaking this year it has been rock solid, and my dealer has the "other" (can't remember the name of it) alignment system. Last year on a back highway in eastern Nevada, I went 1.5 miles without touching the handle bars ( it was a test of the alignment) I figured after that long it was good. Of course, they will have to do the alignment again after the new ball joints. So worst case scenario, I will get it done at Norcal in sept.

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcer960 View Post
    ...I am getting new front tires put on at the same time,...
    Aha, if you want to solve and know the cause of an issue of any kind, never make two changes or adjustments at the same time. It's impossible to know what did what.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40Xshooter View Post
    The play in your bars looks EXACTLY like mine. I have a '16 RT-S. I don't think you have anything to worry about.
    Perhaps you've got some wear too...

    Look at the video closely, the bars are slack then come to a stop abruptly and there is no wheel movement at all. That is play in something rather than load-up of the steering components. Though it may be typical after a fair bit of usage.

  17. #17
    Very Active Member bcer960's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyderlass View Post
    Aha, if you want to solve and know the cause of an issue of any kind, never make two changes or adjustments at the same time. It's impossible to know what did what.
    I agree. However we are leaving next week for another small trip, so I don't have time to test them one at a time

    2017 RT-S

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcer960 View Post
    I agree. However we are leaving next week for another small trip, so I don't have time to test them one at a time
    Enjoy your trip!

  19. #19
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyderlass View Post
    Perhaps you've got some wear too...

    Look at the video closely, the bars are slack then come to a stop abruptly and there is no wheel movement at all. That is play in something rather than load-up of the steering components. Though it may be typical after a fair bit of usage.
    That's correct. I did some more checking today. The steering shaft has two u-joints in it. The lower u-joint which is above the DPS, the lower steering shaft, and the tie rod ends, have no movement when I move the handlebars within the play region. I took some tupperware off and one headlight out. There is no looseness between the handlebar and the top of the steering shaft. That leaves the upper u-joint as the only place where there can be play, and of course, you can't get to it or see it without taking the entire front end apart!

    At this point it looks like the only place where there can be looseness is in the upper u-joint. I'm guessing it's probably in the spline connection between the upper steering shaft section and the u-joint. I'll stop by the dealer tomorrow and check out some other Spyders. If indeed the looseness is not normal I still have 6 weeks of extended warranty to pay for the fix.

    2014 Copper RTS

    Tri-Axis bars, CB, BajaRon sway bar & shock adjusters, SpyderPop's Bumpskid, NBV peg brackets, LED headlights and modulator, Wolo trumpet air horns, trailer hitch, custom trailer harness, high mount turn signals, Custom Dynamics brake light, LED turn signal lights on mirrors, LED strip light for a dash light, garage door opener, LED lights in frunk, trunk, and saddlebags, RAM mounts and cradles for tablet (for GPS) and phone (for music), and Smooth Spyder belt tensioner.
    2014 RTS , Copper! (officially Cognac)

  20. #20
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    Be sure to let us know how it turns out!

  21. #21
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Default Update, sort of

    Quote Originally Posted by Spyderlass View Post
    Be sure to let us know how it turns out!
    Well, my RT is at the dealer's shop. The service writer called me today and said the tech tightened the pinch bolt on the lower U-joint and that took out some of the looseness. I find that hard to believe since I also tightened it some and there was no play in the lower U-joint section. Getting to the upper U-joint to see if it's loose and to tighten the pinch bolt on it, requires removing quite a bit of the front end stuff and that isn't covered under BEST.

    But, he said the other option was to submit a case to BRP to replace the entire steering column, and that probably would be covered by BEST since the steering column is not considered a wear item. I said to go for it. So now we wait to hear back from BRP. In any case, it would the end of September before they can schedule the job to replace the column. Must be backlogged and short of qualified techs like so many others here have complained about. I hope they'll let me have my RT back between getting an OK and doing the work. I told him no problem waiting until then but be sure that BEST will still cover it since the warranty expires the end of August and the repair can't be done for another month after that.

    2014 Copper RTS

    Tri-Axis bars, CB, BajaRon sway bar & shock adjusters, SpyderPop's Bumpskid, NBV peg brackets, LED headlights and modulator, Wolo trumpet air horns, trailer hitch, custom trailer harness, high mount turn signals, Custom Dynamics brake light, LED turn signal lights on mirrors, LED strip light for a dash light, garage door opener, LED lights in frunk, trunk, and saddlebags, RAM mounts and cradles for tablet (for GPS) and phone (for music), and Smooth Spyder belt tensioner.
    2014 RTS , Copper! (officially Cognac)

  22. #22
    SpyderLovers Sponsor cptjam's Avatar
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    Bcer,
    See you at NorCal! Joe
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  23. #23
    Very Active Member Lew L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cptjam View Post
    Bcer,
    See you at NorCal! Joe

    Bcer,
    See you at NorCal! Lew
    Kaos----- Gone but not forgotten.

    2014 RTS in Circuit Yellow, farkle-ing addiction down to once every few months. ECU FLASH IS GREAT.
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  24. #24
    Very Active Member bcer960's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lew L View Post
    Bcer,
    See you at NorCal! Lew
    We are soo looking forward it to seeing everyone there. It seems like it has been a year since I've seen you guys.....

    2017 RT-S

    Bump Skid - Spyderpops
    Wrap - Wrapmyspyder
    swaybar - Bajaron
    Sena 20D & SM10
    3 PC Mesh Zippered Lid Net Set - TricLED
    A arm LED's - Safety LED's - TricLED
    Mirror Sequential turn signals
    Glo-riders
    LED rear turn signals and reverse lights
    Front Grills
    Third Brake light
    Larson Scanner
    Light Up - Sue Hopper

  25. #25
    Very Active Member Lew L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcer960 View Post
    We are soo looking forward it to seeing everyone there. It seems like it has been a year since I've seen you guys.....

    That was a really good time we all had. This time I'll supply some Makers Mark.

    Lew L

    OH YAH----- to stay on topic: handlebars have just a little play when the isn't running and not noticeable at all when driving.
    Kaos----- Gone but not forgotten.

    2014 RTS in Circuit Yellow, farkle-ing addiction down to once every few months. ECU FLASH IS GREAT.
    2014 RTS , Circuit Yellow

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