Oil: time or mileage?

[Richardv]

Hi,

I always follow the recommandation of 5,000 miles or one year for the oil change of my Spyders. I am always using Amsoil metric oil. But this year, for multiple reasons, I am getting close to the one year date, but we only put 1,200 miles on both of them. The Spyders are kept in a heated dry garage. What do you think? I feel bad to dump 2 almost new oil change just for time. (money wise and planet resources wise)

So I am consulting my fellow Spyder oil experts. What is the reasons behind the one year time limit, especially on oil like Amsoil. If Bayaron has some data from Amsoil on the subject, I would appreciate to read about it.

Thanks in advance to all of you guys.

Have a great day.

[Chupaca]

Guess one would have to consider the how those few miles were put on the odometer...If all at once in a short period of time or spread out during the year. Not an oil expert myself so can't say. Those in the know will let you know but I would start a ryding season with a fresh oil change.

[Lew L]

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Although some folks believe Full Syn oil can last for years if you aren't racking up the miles …. I believe once oil gets contaminated ( from use - any amount ) it needs to be changed ….. I only change my filter once a year unless I go 1000 or so miles past 9300 …. this is on my 1330 engine …. Mike

[Bob Denman]

With the Vee-Twins: 5,000 nmiles, OR one year is perfectly fine!
The Triples allow you to stretch the mileage to 9,300 miles; but the one-year timeframe still remains.

[Highwayman2013]

Bajaron left Amsoil in his V twin longer than a year, analyzed it and it was fine.

[AeroPilot]

I would run until this winter and change before I put it up, unless I reach the suggested Oil Change interval miles... JMO

[Thopper]

I know I guy that has a ford focus with 280K miles and he has only changed the oil twice....its true! I think he is over the time and miles suggested limits. If it wasn't for warranty issues the oil change recommendations would have less meaning in my book.

[Saluda]

I would never go that far or long regardless of his supposed success. I only say supposed because I do not know of it first hand.
I usually go by mileage, but the time subject does have it's points.

[Rob Rodriguez]

I change the oil in everything I own based on the mileage limit not the 1yr time limit. Never had an issue doing it this way.

[BajaRon]

Bajaron left Amsoil in his V twin longer than a year, analyzed it and it was fine.

True! And actually MUCH longer than a year. I'm embarrassed to say how long. That oil had about 1,500 miles on when last I'd ridden it. When I got my RS going again, I rode another 100 miles or so on it before I changed the oil. Had it analyzed and it came out right were it should have had it been the same mileage and less than 1 year old. I can't vouch for any other lubricant because I have not done this with anything else. But if it were me, I'd go for it and service at the regular mileage interval. If I'd known how good my oil oil was, I'd have run it to 6,500 miles like I usually do on Amsoil in my 998 Rotax.

[Richardv]

.... this is what I want to hear... I was just looking for a confirmation of some kind... Thks Ron, you're making my day. !!! :-)

(P.S. for Chupaca, It was used at kind of regular interval during last summer, and fully warmed up everytime.)

[BajaRon]

.... this is what I want to hear... just looking for a confirmation of some kind... Thks

You'll get a lot of differing opinions on this. And I'm not saying that they are wrong, depending on the circumstance. I was a bit surprised at the analysis myself. I would have guessed different results. I certainly would not recommend this if I had not actually done it myself. My Spyder was garaged. But beyond that. Nothing special done.

[Ibified]

Being an engineer, I'd do an oil analysis and see what it tells you, then go from there.

[ATC]

Modern synthetic oils don't just "go bad" in such a short time. The oil doesn't magically grow contaminants while sitting for an extended period. I'd run it until the mileage limit you want to change it at.

Some manufacturers use a time limit for oil changes to get the customer back to the dealer (revenue), or as an avenue to deny warranty coverage. I had a 2016 Ram 3500 diesel, and the oil change requirement was 15,000mi or 6-months. Whichever came first. 6-months! Talk about a racket...

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

.... this is what I want to hear... I was just looking for a confirmation of some kind... Thks Ron, you're making my day. !!! :-)

(P.S. for Chupaca, It was used at kind of regular interval during last summer, and fully warmed up everytime.)

For more real life data read this thread. https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...-OK-check-mark!

As Ron says, you will get a lot of differing opinions. The best info you can rely on are oil analysis lab results.

[Madison Sully]

Metallurgical engineer here.
It depends on the miles per start, more than total accumulated miles OR time.
If you drive 5 miles in the morning and 5 miles each night, and then let your vehicle cool off in between, and that's your habit, you need to change your oil more frequently based on both time AND miles compared to someone who drives 50 miles each start twice per day and lets the vehicle cool off.
So if those 1200 miles were done in two days per year, feel free to change your oil once every four years.
But if those 1200 miles were done 10 miles per day as described above, you should change your oil now, even if it has only been four months.

[Highwayman2013]

Metallurgical engineer here.
It depends on the miles per start, more than total accumulated miles OR time.
If you drive 5 miles in the morning and 5 miles each night, and then let your vehicle cool off in between, and that's your habit, you need to change your oil more frequently based on both time AND miles compared to someone who drives 50 miles each start twice per day and lets the vehicle cool off.
So if those 1200 miles were done in two days per year, feel free to change your oil once every four years.
But if those 1200 miles were done 10 miles per day as described above, you should change your oil now, even if it has only been four months.

What is your reasoning?

[EdMat]

What is your reasoning?

Holding moisture in the oil and not generating enuff heat to vaporize it off.

[Madison Sully]

Holding moisture in the oil and not generating enuff heat to vaporize it off.

Pretty much.

[Madison Sully]

What is your reasoning?

OK, I'm awake again. Didn't mean to ignore you last night but I wanted to put a bit of thought into this. So here goes....

When you first start your engine, you get more blowby around the piston rings, and the oil and rest of the internal bits are cool, so water vapors from the blowby (and fuel too) condense in the engine and contaminate the oil. Oil is, of course, blended to mitigate damage from this, but these ingredients are not without limit. Once the engine is hot there is not this tendency to condense water vapor out of the blowby; it all goes out the EGR and back through the intake to be burned in the combustion chamber.

The water in the oil reacts to form acids, which is why oils are blended with ingredients that make it basic in nature; this is why there is a TBN, or Total Base Number. To neutralize these acids that form. But again, once the oil and engine are at operating temperature, the water and fuel in the blowby don't condense into the engine case.

Then there's the estimate that ~90% of an engine's wear happens at cold startup. Few reasons for this, but the increase in water content in the oil is one of them. Another is due to wear caused by lack of oil film until some few revolutions have happened, which will generate particles of wear material due to mechanical wear. These particles will also cause more wear until they are caught in the oil filter, another reason for longer oil life with longer "miles per start".

As to keeping oil in an engine for a few years of low usage, some folks would say that's bad because an engine "breaths" and will collect water from the air. Sort of true, in the sense that an engine is like a slightly open bottle of oil as opposed to a tightly sealed bottle of oil. But it's not like there is a little fan that blows air around and a means of collecting water vapors into the oil. In this case, the engine is at ambient temperature, so not much tendency to condense water, especially on the internals. I'm speaking of a vehicle stored in a garage, by the way. Out of the sun, fairly stable temperature, that sort of thing. I suppose being in the sun would be OK.... Anyway, If the car is in a high humidity place that also has wide temperature swings this may be an issue. But for someone like me who keeps his motorcycles in an attached (but not climate controlled) garage, I'll leave oil in for 2-3 years and not worry. Brake fluid is not a good comparison here because it is hygroscopic; it will actually collect water from the vapors in the air. Motor oil is not like this (or at the very least, is orders of magnitude less likely to collect a given bit of water vapor). Slightly opened bottle of brake fluid you throw away tomorrow for this reason. Opened bottle of motor oil? No worries.

[Highwayman2013]

Which is why some of us have our oil tested. After 13 months and 9,666 miles my (Amsoil) oil showed 0% water and a 6 TBN. There was a little fuel at .5% but is attributed to driving around town. Just saying leaving low mileage oil in an engine is not a terrible thing over a long period.

[Easy Rider]

Personally......IF your riding pattern is likely to change soon so that you will be riding a LOT more.......I think I would leave it until you reach the mileage recommendation.

But .......IF this is likely to be your "new" riding schedule for the forseeable future, then follow the time recommendation.
Under those circumstances, there is NO reason to spend the extra money for full synthetic oil though.

[KLo5591]

Sorry guys I know this thread is over 1 year old now but I was looking for advice about "extended" oil change intervals.

I have a 2012 RT (998cc) SE5 and I am going on 2 years now since the oil was changed by the dealership. They used the standard semi-synthetic oil recommended by BRP. I'm embarrassed to say I have only put about 300 miles on it in that time but when I take it out I usually go at least 20-25 miles and let the engine fully warm up.

When I last checked the oil level a couple of weeks ago the oil was full and still looked and felt "like new" - clear and clean and slick. I do not believe the oil sitting in the tank will go bad in that amount of time.

Remember, the 998 V-twin is a dry-sump engine so the oil does not sit in the crank case collecting moisture while it sits. Most of it gets pumped back into the closed oil tank where it stays until it is needed.

Any further comments on the subject are most welcome.

[ARtraveler]

Sorry guys I know this thread is over 1 year old now but I was looking for advice about "extended" oil change intervals.

I have a 2012 RT (998cc) SE5 and I am going on 2 years now since the oil was changed by the dealership. They used the standard semi-synthetic oil recommended by BRP. I'm embarrassed to say I have only put about 300 miles on it in that time but when I take it out I usually go at least 20-25 miles and let the engine fully warm up.

When I last checked the oil level a couple of weeks ago the oil was full and still looked and felt "like new" - clear and clean and slick. I do not believe the oil sitting in the tank will go bad in that amount of time.

Remember, the 998 V-twin is a dry-sump engine so the oil does not sit in the crank case collecting moisture while it sits. Most of it gets pumped back into the closed oil tank where it stays until it is needed.

Any further comments on the subject are most welcome.

I would recommend changing at least once a year, regardless of miles. 998 engine or 1330 engine. The intervals for each engine 998/1330 are there for those who drive a lot of miles.