Front Sprocket Spline Failures

[007james]

PMK,...nice to know there is at least one other Ex Fellow Plater here on Spyder Lovers and a Spyder riding Plater! Hoping we are not headed too far off Topic on this Sprocket thread, .......stripping Nickel plating off a combination of steel and bronze weld is going to be a problem for you. The Stripper that will dissolve Nickel off steel with out etching the steel will etch the bronze badly, and the Stripper that will strip Nickel from Bronze will etch the steel badly. Reverse plating the Nickel off the frame, while watching to stop when the bronze weld is first exposed, would be the safest way to proceed. Its been awhile since I have worked for Chemical Suppliers, so there might be some new proprietary Chemical stripper on the Market that will strip nickel plating from both steel and bronze with out etching either. But it will be a real challenge. If it were me, I’d first try to MASK the bronze weld areas, with a Masking Paint, then use a Nickel from steel Stripper, cold, to strip the Nickel off steel. One Lb. Per Gal. Of Sodium Cyanide, with 4 oz. per Gal. of Sodium Metanitro benzine sultanate would strip the nickel off steel with out etching it, but would attack the bronze. But needing such a large Tank of the Chemical will be more than a home garage project. I suggest contacting a few local Plating Contract Shops in your area to get help from. Good luck!!
Here is a Link to my last published Plating Article, in Metal Finishing Magazine, about 6 months before I retired, in 2010. My “ Last Hurrah” before retiring.
https://www.materialstoday.com/metal...ing-equipment/
007james

FWIW, on the Sikorskys, the nickel is a cap over the titanium leading edge that is adhesive bonded over the blades composite structure. Removing the nickel cap is a challenge to remove.

At one previous job, besides operating and overseeing the entire NDT lab, I was also tasked with maintaining the baths for Type 1 anodize, cadmium plating, plus the strip tanks and haz mat. Never enjoyed any of that. Next job, besides structure work, I was doing brush plating, plus maintaining that.

While not at your level in regards to plating, I have a little bit of experience with it.

So, that leads me to ask, I need a method to strip nickel from steel without destruction to the bronze welding that joins the tubes of my 1971 Rickman Metisse frame. Seems no plating shops that are local have a tank adequate to handle the frames dimensions.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

So I have been thinking about using this since the solution changed from locking things down. Just been waiting to do my rear tire change at the same time.

Have had it around all my life as my dad was a navy and merchant marine, ship board maintenance electrician.

Regards,

Don

BTW: Don't get it on your hands or clothing. It doesn't wash out.

"Mariner's Choice NMCBT-8, Marine Grade Never Seez, provides extreme pressure lubrication and protects against seizure, galling, and corrosion both above and below the water line. Use on winches, cables, bilge pumps, anchor lines, porthole studs, rigging, hoist cables, suspension bridges, wind turbines, offshore rigging, or other applications exposed to harsh salt water and freshwater conditions. Requires about 41% less torque while providing the same clamping force on threads. Perfect for high moisture environments!"

I checked the price …. not cheap, $19.99 , but it is Free Ground shipping ….. so if this works ...……….Mike

[PMK]

I checked the price …. not cheap, $19.99 , but it is Free Ground shipping ….. so if this works ...……….Mike

The Honda spline lube is similar or less expensive and purpose specific for lubricating splines. Seems that could be a better choice, but whatever works.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

The Honda spline lube is similar or less expensive and purpose specific for lubricating splines. Seems that could be a better choice, but whatever works.

....Thanks , but I seem to remember reading they don't sell it anymore …… the Bostik was for 8 oz., so enough to share or multiple applications …. PS I have 45,000+ miles …. and I don't see any RED DUST etc …. Mike

[PMK]

....Thanks , but I seem to remember reading they don't sell it anymore …… the Bostik was for 8 oz., so enough to share or multiple applications …. PS I have 45,000+ miles …. and I don't see any RED DUST etc …. Mike

When deciding on a spline lube for our machine, the Honda dealer had the stuff in stock.

Honda does not make the paste, I believe it is just Molykote M77

[oneway]

I have a 2016 RTS. Front pulley failure at 18,000 miles. Replaced under warranty. Out of warranty now another failure at 28,000 miles so only got 10000 miles out of last pulley

[007james]

Oneway, ....pretty much same on my RT. First Failure at 21,500, and the 2nd at 33,800 miles. Both fixed under Warrantee, and I just bought another 3 year BEST Extended. So my next Sprocket failure will cost me $50 Deductible, plus more down time. Obviously, I wonder how many more miles my 3rd Sprocket will hold up before failing, and the Big concern is, will my Shaft have enough spline material left to accept another, or more Sprocket Pulleys? In your case, with no Warrantee, I would guess changing the Sprocket out again, if it can be removed from the Shaft, will cost you about $500.00 U.S. ( with no surprises.) but if the Shaft splines are too far gone, than the entire engine will have to be removed, with case split, to remove the Shaft, which I have heard all kinds of different guesses on how many hours of labor will be required, up to 25 hours. With no Warrantee, that would be Land Fill time for me! Or, I’d look for a Back Yard Mechanic who might try to get it fixed enough to sell it. But I’d stay real close to Home with it. No doubt, as more time rolls on, and the 2014 and up RTs and Fs will be reporting as the miles and experiences are shared here,....hopefully.
007James

I have a 2016 RTS. Front pulley failure at 18,000 miles. Replaced under warranty. Out of warranty now another failure at 28,000 miles so only got 10000 miles out of last pulley

[jcthorne]

our experience has shown that the sprockets that have repeated failures were not installed with the required spline lube or the previously recommended loctite.

[johnv50]

After reading through all 4 pages I did not hear of anyone with a 2017 or newer F3 having this issue. I had my belt tension set to the new recommended tension and am wondering if that appears to help with this failure ??

johnv

[jcthorne]

After reading through all 4 pages I did not hear of anyone with a 2017 or newer F3 having this issue. I had my belt tension set to the new recommended tension and am wondering if that appears to help with this failure ??

johnv

Yes, have seen it on 17s and 18s as well. Have not had a 19 do it yet but its just a matter of time. The sprocket part is unchanged 2015 to current and at least the 2018s were still being installed dry at the factory. Perhaps it changed for 19.

[aka1004]

Just pulled the front sprocket, cleaned and applied that moly grease before putting it back together.
Surprisingly, there was no wear as far as I can tell and it had some white stuff on the spline.
2015 RS with 12k.
I was concerned because my old 09 had failed front sprocket 3 times including replacement of main shaft that requires engine rebuild.

[007james]

AKA, was the engine on your 09 rebuilt under Warrantee? If not, who did it, and how many hours approx. Labor was required, and total cost of rebuilding? I think that if an engine is under Warrantee, and a Mom & Pop Dealer with non Certified Can-Am Spyder Mechanics are called to the Task of removing the Spyder engine, splitting the case, inspecting all of the parts that might have failed, negotiating new or used replacement parts, reassembling, while trying to juggle keeping a Motorcycle Dealership in business during peak riding season,...,Can-Am might decide it is more economical to take a new engine sitting on the shelf and send it to the Dealer to install rather than rebuild the old one.
007James

Just pulled the front sprocket, cleaned and applied that moly grease before putting it back together.
Surprisingly, there was no wear as far as I can tell and it had some white stuff on the spline.
2015 RS with 12k.
I was concerned because my old 09 had failed front sprocket 3 times including replacement of main shaft that requires engine rebuild.

[SpyderAnn01]

After reading through all 4 pages I did not hear of anyone with a 2017 or newer F3 having this issue. I had my belt tension set to the new recommended tension and am wondering if that appears to help with this failure ??

johnv

I have a 17 F3T and had the ‘red dust’ last year. My dealer replaced the sprocket but not without a fight.

[aka1004]

It was done under 3rd party extended warranty.
I don’t remember name of that 3 rd party but they picked up the whole tab so I don’t know how much the bill was.
It was done at an authorized dealer by possibility not well trained mechanic because engine blew up the day I picked it up.
Valves destroyed the pistons. Engine was rebuilt again and dealer and brp split that bill of $8500 and at the time, new engine was $7500.

[johnv50]

SpyderAnn01....was your belt tension set to the new lower setting before the sprocket failed ??
what was your mileage at time of seeing the red dust ??

thanks johnv

[RudyB]

What was the tension set at

[SpyderF3-s]

I checked the sprocket this weekend and the bolt was loose hanging out! Red dust! Just a matter of time now until the 5th sprocket goes bad! Back to the shop in less than 5 months.

IMG_0980.jpg

[Spyderlass]

That bolt is screwed out! That's not a sprocket failure that's a fitment failure. Plainly you'll need a new sprocket because it's been rattling around on the splines but the new one needs to be fitted correctly.

The shaft need to be thoroughly checked too because each time there's rusting and movement it's loosing metal.

[Freddy]

Plainly you'll need a new sprocket ...........and bolt.

The old reliability spyder bites again.