Advice on Wet weather riding techniques - RTL?

[askitee]

Hi all,

A wet ride on the weekend had me trying to figure out the best (safest) cornering technique. I tried things like:

• Allowing the RTL to transfer more weight on the outside wheel.
• Cornering flat and relying on the 3 points of contact having equal grip.
• Braking into the corner to place more weight on the front. (as per in a car)
• Trailing braking.
• Leaning off the bike to counterweigh the bike - this works great when I encounter rough roads at speed as it appeases the VSS from getting nervous.

I was following a couple of Yamaha R1's for approx 70 kms in some tight winding road and open sweepers. Both have good tyres and are very good riders. They weren't riding hard as we were in a group, and I found the RTL VSS cutting in often, hence the experimentation. Please note: No I wasn't trying to keep up

At present the RTL has Kenda's front and an Arachnid on the rear - great tyres not I know - but a great chance to find out on poor rubber.

Your thoughts, your logic, your own testing outcomes, training undertaken would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT
To avoid the confusion seen a clarification behind the question...

Thanks for the replies.

As stated I wasn't trying to keep up but was using the opportunity to test certain scenarios. I had lunch with 3 MC highway patrolmen and 1 tintop Highway patrolman. I mentioned what the lessons from my advanced (tintop) Driver training taught me (REALLY testing ABS at least every 6 months, practicing emergency control, getting to know the capabilities of your vehicle 2 or 3 or 4 wheeled and driving with a margin for error) and was exploring what to do with the Spyder.

There were no lectures about slowing down - they saw what the aim of the question was - safer riding.

An example from the two-wheeled world you should relate to.
You are riding along a highway on a dry day - you encounter a line of water running across the road in a blind corner. A good habit is to move your deriere off the bike allowing the bike to stand more vertical - this helps the bike be more stable and more controllable (for reasons I wouldn't need to explain here). You have increased your chances of negotiating the corner safely by increasing the margin (Rider Training 101)

Comparison for the 3 wheeled world:
You are riding along highway on a dry day - you encounter a line of water running across the road in a blind corner that will see the front hoops aquaplane. You do XYZ to improve the chances of negotiating the hazard.

We spoke on the topic for about an hour and they considered methods they used to add a margin for error when riding, two offered to speak with their instructors and email me their comments. 1 of the MC HWP had actually seen the BRP Police model and likes the idea if it excluded the rubber that comes from BRP

Any input I am happy to hear your thoughts.

[Bob Denman]

It's easy: just slow down!

[Peter Aawen]

While trailing braking might be fine & a dandy skill to use on those lesser 2 wheeled machines, rather than HELPING with your wet weather cornering (as it does for those lesser entities!) the 'trailing brake' thing is something frequently used by many Spyder Ryders to help STOP the Nanny from intervening, so I reckon you'd be best to keep well away from doing that trailing brake trick if you are at all concerned about your Spyder's ability to look after you! The Spyder's Nanny really is something that's up there with the best & quite at the top end of the 'keeping your arse safe' systems available on anything, including those mega-expensive super-cars - so leave her alone to do her stuff & keep you safe & upright as she feels fit!! If she ever cuts in, IT's FOR A BLOODY GOOD REASON, she's keeping your arse out of a sling!

Now that's dealt with trailing braking on a Spyder appropriately, let's move on... firstly, to transferring weight to the outside wheel - much of what the Nanny does is to correct all the bad things that happen when you let too much weight transfer throw weight across & onto the outside front wheel - so why make that transfer any worse?! Don't do it!! And YES, of course you should try to help the Spyder corner flat & take advantage of the three points of contact with the road that help make our Spyders such fantastic things! YES, lean in & if necessary get your bum off the seat to help get & keep your weight in & down as you corner & help the Spyder & the Nanny keep the inside wheel down & in contact with the road while you're cornering, especially in the wet - read the Do's & Don'ts thread again, see if that helps (it does, or at least it should! )

Moving on again; Braking early & gently is always a smart thing, especially in the wet, so that's got 'em all, hasn't it? We talked about those two that are really not going to help in any way so keep well away from them, (trying to lull the Nanny thru trailing braking so she can't look after you like she would so well if she could & transferring even more weight onto the outside wheel so you can really try to fly inverted! ) and the rest are really just trying to get you helping the Nanny do her thing properly so YES PLEASE to them! And check out that Do's & Don'ts thread (who's got the link handy when you need it?) OK, what else???

Oh, here it is, altho others might suggest differently, but I have spent a fair bit of time on a skid-pan playing with this, and it really seems to work very well for me on my RT, so maybe it can help you too..... When you're steering, try to always PULL on your inside hand rather than pushing with your outside hand. I find this helps a WHOLE LOT with stability & getting your weight across to the inside of the Spyder, especially if you're ryding in the wet. Pushing out with your outside hand means you need to brace the wrong way & then apply leverage out & up high well above the Spyder's CoG, pretty much in the worst possible place for you to put any force if you're trying to keep your weight in and down; while pulling in & down on your inside hand helps you do just that and helps tell the Nanny that you really are doing just that too! And anything that HELPS the Nanny is helping keep you safe, in control, and upright, which is probably a good thing, isn't it??

And bear in mind with all these things to do that help the Nanny, done properly they mean the Nanny won't even need to intervene, but if you don't quite do them well enough, she's still there keeping the rubber bits on the low side like they should be & the rest of your Spyder with you aboard up where it should be!! So rather than treating the Nanny as an enemy & trying to avoid her at all costs, learn what she's trying to do and HELP her - your ryding will benefit & you'll find it's all a lot nicer for you too - probably faster as well, but that's just a handy by-product you can capitalise on if you want to! I don't ever bother with trying to keep up with anyone, but when there's any cornering or braking involved, there are a LOT of fairly competent 2wheel riders who spend a fair bit of their time trying (unsuccessfully) to keep up with me!

[d.o.spyder-rts]

with both Bob and Peter. Braking should be done prior to entering the corner. If you end up having to brake in the corner, the wrong entry speed was selected. As Peter pointed out, ride your own ride, don't try to keep up with anyone. Just my humble opinion. Dale

[Haikanko]

Old saying - slow in fast out - that is the way I ride in the wet.. Depending upon the grip smooth throttle increase after weight has transfered to loaded front wheel

[canamjhb]

After several decades of 2 wheel riding, I had to change a lot of my riding techniques/habits when riding the Spyder. I had a hard time adjusting and listened a lot to the wrong people. After I finally learned and committed to habit Peter's "pull instead of push" cornering technique, my riding improved in all respects and in all weather conditions. Listen to Peter. He knows..... Jim

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

and I found the RTL VSS cutting in often, hence the experimentation. Please note: No I wasn't trying to keep up

At present the RTL has Kenda's front and an Arachnid on the rear - great tyres not I know - but a great chance to find out on poor rubber.

You sure your tires weren't sliding or hydroplaning? One very short instance of either and Nanny will kick in!

[askitee]

Thanks for the replies.

As stated I wasnt trying to keep up but was using the opportunity to test certain scenarios. I had lunch with 3 MC higway patrolmen and 1 tintop Highway patrolman. I mentioned what the lessons from my advanced (tintop) Driver training taught me (REALLY testing ABS at least every 6 months, practicing emmergency control, getting to know the capabilities of your vehicle 2 or 3 or 4 wheeled and driving with a margin for error) and was exploring what to do with the Spyder.

There were no lectures about slowing down - they saw what the aim of the question was - safer riding.

An example from the two-wheeled world you should relate to.
You are riding along a highway on a dry day - you encounter a line of water running across the road in a blind corner. A good habit is to move your derier off the bike allowing the bike to stand more vertical - this helps the bike be more stable and more controllable (for reasons I wouldn't need to explain here). You have increased your chances of negotiating the corner safely by increasing the margin (Rider Training 101)

Comparison for the 3 wheeled world:
You are riding along highway on a dry day - you encounter a line of water running across the road in a blind corner that will see the front hoops aquaplane. You do XYZ to improve the chances of negotiating the hazard.

We spoke on the topic for about an hour and they considered methods they used to add a margin for error when riding, two offered to speak with their instructors and email me their comments. 1 of the MC HWP had actually seen the BRP Police model and likes the idea if it excluded the rubber that comes from BRP

Any input I am happy to hear your thoughts.