Just to clarify, I meant the cat is going to be hotter, not the engine. The more hydrocarbons going into it the hotter it will become. Monster recommends cat removal with both stages, but only stage 1 with a cat. I’m experimenting with my exhaust right now to see if I can quiet it down with the cat delete. I’m really tempted to make my own chambered muffler but waiting to see if what I’m going to do first will work. The down side to cat removal with or without flash is the noise (some like it & some don’t).
I only have stage 1, cat delete with can opener baffle & stock muffler. The very bottom end (taking off) lags for about 1 second (maybe less, haven’t timed it) then it comes alive & boils the tire off. Without the baffle & straight shot muffler the delay was much greater & more noticeable. That was both tested from dead stopped to WOT. Just my experience.
As I mentioned in my previous post I have the Monster stage 2 ECU flash and cat delete pipe without baffle on my Spyder and I am very very satisfied with the performance
When I tried the same setup but WITH the baffle I didn't like it because it felt restricted/ suffocated, especially when giving full throttle at any rpm's.
Today I decided I had to try the Monster stage 2 in combination with cat and stock muffler (= original stock factory setup) and I was truly surprised when I took the Spyder for a spin and realized it had just about the same performance but without the annoying and very loud exhaust note I had with the cat delete! 👍
It really is a lot more enjoying to drive when not disturbing the neighbors or having to wear ear protection anymore. Especially since the performance is still very good '
As I mentioned in my previous post I have the Monster stage 2 ECU flash and cat delete pipe without baffle on my Spyder and I am very very satisfied with the performance
When I tried the same setup but WITH the baffle I didn't like it because it felt restricted/ suffocated, especially when giving full throttle at any rpm's.
Today I decided I had to try the Monster stage 2 in combination with cat and stock muffler (= original stock factory setup) and I was truly surprised when I took the Spyder for a spin and realized it had just about the same performance but without the annoying and very loud exhaust note I had with the cat delete! ��
It really is a lot more enjoying to drive when not disturbing the neighbors or having to wear ear protection anymore. Especially since the performance is still very good '
That's why the stage II is a better all around choice...you get more low to mid range performance...also...you have a better selection of exhaust to choose from without a loss of performance.
As I mentioned in my previous post I have the Monster stage 2 ECU flash and cat delete pipe without baffle on my Spyder and I am very very satisfied with the performance
When I tried the same setup but WITH the baffle I didn't like it because it felt restricted/ suffocated, especially when giving full throttle at any rpm's.
Today I decided I had to try the Monster stage 2 in combination with cat and stock muffler (= original stock factory setup) and I was truly surprised when I took the Spyder for a spin and realized it had just about the same performance but without the annoying and very loud exhaust note I had with the cat delete! ��
It really is a lot more enjoying to drive when not disturbing the neighbors or having to wear ear protection anymore. Especially since the performance is still very good '
This is good to hear. I am looking to upgrade my F3T with more power. I want the most tq. and hp. that I can get without being too loud. Right now I am 100% stock, but I just need a good direction to go. Don't want anything too loud, but do want as much umph as possible.
2021 RTL , brake pedal from "Web Boards" chalk white
As I mentioned in my previous post I have the Monster stage 2 ECU flash and cat delete pipe without baffle on my Spyder and I am very very satisfied with the performance
When I tried the same setup but WITH the baffle I didn't like it because it felt restricted/ suffocated, especially when giving full throttle at any rpm's.
Today I decided I had to try the Monster stage 2 in combination with cat and stock muffler (= original stock factory setup) and I was truly surprised when I took the Spyder for a spin and realized it had just about the same performance but without the annoying and very loud exhaust note I had with the cat delete! ��
It really is a lot more enjoying to drive when not disturbing the neighbors or having to wear ear protection anymore. Especially since the performance is still very good '
I verified the same experience. I went back to all stock exhaust and was hard pressed to notice any power loss. Owning two ECUs, stage 1 and stage 2, I went back to stage 1 ECU flash, covered the holes in the filter cover that stage 2 required. I'm getting older, but I like the quiet exhaust of stock and have basically no power loss. There is a definite honking intake noise when the holes are open on the top of the air filter that is a modification requirement for stage 2 flash.
Stage 2 flash has a noticeable power advantage that really kicks in above 7,000 rpm. But with all the new lower power the flash delivers down low, I just don't rev that high anymore.
So just to confirm other posts, it DOES NOT MATTER which flash or which combination of exhaust, our Spyders adjust to all combinations.
Just wanted to share
Dennis
BTW, I am willing to part with my RLS delete and Spyder 1 Stainless exhaust. I have over $1,000 invested in my set up. It has a combination of three in line baffles. It can be reasonably quiet when need be, and has a good bark when you get on the power. $300 plus shipping OBO. PM me if interested for pics. This is a flashy set up of stainless and Chrome. Only fits RT, F3L and F3T.
I currently have the cat delete with baffle & stock muffler, and stage 1. With the new mods I did (F3ST) it’s actually louder in my helmet. I think the exhaust echos off the ground & my windshield which I’m right in the middle of. I would really like to try a T or L muffler on mine to see how it sounds. I thought I was going to get away from running ear buds & just use helmet speakers but no such luck.
Interesting idea, but why would you convert a reasonably properly designed and flowed cold air intake, into a reduced ram air effect hot air intake.
Years ago, I disassembled the air duct and gave it a look, expecting true restrictions for engine intake air. Yes, the entire duct could be removed and an external duct routed outside the bodywork to shorten the length and assure cold air was captured. This though requires good placement of the air duct inlet away from turbulent air created by the bodywork.
On the 14 / 19 RT series the oem duct gathers incoming air at the front of the Spyder, in the upper edge of the left radiator duct. The outside inlet appears small and restrictive, but upon inspecting, there is an additional cold air inlet that supplements to obvious inlet.
The 2014 to 2019 RT series Spyder utilizes a quite large still airbox, adjacent to the throttle body. This is a good design. It allows incoming turbulent airflow, to slow slightly, but more importantly reduce turbulence and allow a straight airflow into the throttle body.
There is a large duct that crosses over to the air filter airbox. By design, the airfilter initiates straightening the airflow based on the cylindrical shape.
Most engine builders and tuners know and understand that air density will alter performance. Cold air is more dense per volume and produces better power. Adding a warm or heated air bypass as shown will make noise and sound powerful, but likely, and I may be wrong, will reduce power based on heated air.
Going further, if that new set of holes could utilize the flush honeycomb style air vent below the mirror, possibly it could keep a cooler air charge near the holes. For me, when my hands are cold, often I place them over the honeycomb vents at lights to warm them up. Based on that, it is apparent the air around the filter box is heated.
Years ago, while researching the oem air duct, I considered removing all of the intake duct, except the still airbox. Plan was to install a K&N filter onto the still airbox spigot. For various reasons, including heated air concerns, I did not make that mod.
Interesting idea, but why would you convert a reasonably properly designed and flowed cold air intake, into a reduced ram air effect hot air intake.
Years ago, I disassembled the air duct and gave it a look, expecting true restrictions for engine intake air. Yes, the entire duct could be removed and an external duct routed outside the bodywork to shorten the length and assure cold air was captured. This though requires good placement of the air duct inlet away from turbulent air created by the bodywork.
On the 14 / 19 RT series the oem duct gathers incoming air at the front of the Spyder, in the upper edge of the left radiator duct. The outside inlet appears small and restrictive, but upon inspecting, there is an additional cold air inlet that supplements to obvious inlet.
The 2014 to 2019 RT series Spyder utilizes a quite large still airbox, adjacent to the throttle body. This is a good design. It allows incoming turbulent airflow, to slow slightly, but more importantly reduce turbulence and allow a straight airflow into the throttle body.
There is a large duct that crosses over to the air filter airbox. By design, the airfilter initiates straightening the airflow based on the cylindrical shape.
Most engine builders and tuners know and understand that air density will alter performance. Cold air is more dense per volume and produces better power. Adding a warm or heated air bypass as shown will make noise and sound powerful, but likely, and I may be wrong, will reduce power based on heated air.
Going further, if that new set of holes could utilize the flush honeycomb style air vent below the mirror, possibly it could keep a cooler air charge near the holes. For me, when my hands are cold, often I place them over the honeycomb vents at lights to warm them up. Based on that, it is apparent the air around the filter box is heated.
Years ago, while researching the oem air duct, I considered removing all of the intake duct, except the still airbox. Plan was to install a K&N filter onto the still airbox spigot. For various reasons, including heated air concerns, I did not make that mod.
This isn't my idea. This is where Monster/Wicked drill the holes for their stage 2 ECU flash. You'll have to ask them..
2022 RT Sea To Sky
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This isn't my idea. This is where Monster/Wicked drill the holes for their stage 2 ECU flash. You'll have to ask them..
Likely they are adding airflow for WOT, and surrendering some efficiency at all throttle setting and preferring obtaining maximum power. Would be very interesting to compare real world driving performance number of no holes in the airbox lid vs holes in the airbox lid at various throttle settings.
Interesting idea, but why would you convert a reasonably properly designed and flowed cold air intake, into a reduced ram air effect hot air intake.
Years ago, I disassembled the air duct and gave it a look, expecting true restrictions for engine intake air. Yes, the entire duct could be removed and an external duct routed outside the bodywork to shorten the length and assure cold air was captured. This though requires good placement of the air duct inlet away from turbulent air created by the bodywork.
On the 14 / 19 RT series the oem duct gathers incoming air at the front of the Spyder, in the upper edge of the left radiator duct. The outside inlet appears small and restrictive, but upon inspecting, there is an additional cold air inlet that supplements to obvious inlet.
The 2014 to 2019 RT series Spyder utilizes a quite large still airbox, adjacent to the throttle body. This is a good design. It allows incoming turbulent airflow, to slow slightly, but more importantly reduce turbulence and allow a straight airflow into the throttle body.
There is a large duct that crosses over to the air filter airbox. By design, the airfilter initiates straightening the airflow based on the cylindrical shape.
Most engine builders and tuners know and understand that air density will alter performance. Cold air is more dense per volume and produces better power. Adding a warm or heated air bypass as shown will make noise and sound powerful, but likely, and I may be wrong, will reduce power based on heated air.
Going further, if that new set of holes could utilize the flush honeycomb style air vent below the mirror, possibly it could keep a cooler air charge near the holes. For me, when my hands are cold, often I place them over the honeycomb vents at lights to warm them up. Based on that, it is apparent the air around the filter box is heated.
Years ago, while researching the oem air duct, I considered removing all of the intake duct, except the still airbox. Plan was to install a K&N filter onto the still airbox spigot. For various reasons, including heated air concerns, I did not make that mod.
Thank you, thank you, thank you PMK …… this is similar to what I have posted on other similar threads ….. However on the air turbulence thing, on the Spyder it occurs BEFORE the AIR filter element which imho calms the air significantly ….. I have pics in one of my Albums ( see Shock re-locators on RT 13+ ) of what my Air Intake looks like on my 2014 RT...… Because I wanted to be able to re-move my Frunk easily ( and often ) I built my new intake with a ( sort of ) SLIP Joint..... I can re-move my Frunk and then replace it in about 15 minutes. … My intake air comes from Outside the Spyder and is at Ambient temp.... good luck all …… Mike
Thank you, thank you, thank you PMK …… this is similar to what I have posted on other similar threads ….. However on the air turbulence thing, on the Spyder it occurs BEFORE the AIR filter element which imho calms the air significantly ….. I have pics in one of my Albums ( see Shock re-locators on RT 13+ ) of what my Air Intake looks like on my 2014 RT...… Because I wanted to be able to re-move my Frunk easily ( and often ) I built my new intake with a ( sort of ) SLIP Joint..... I can re-move my Frunk and then replace it in about 15 minutes. … My intake air comes from Outside the Spyder and is at Ambient temp.... good luck all …… Mike
Yes a filter can often straighten or align airflow. The Spyder design is not bad but air enters the airbox from the side. Would be better from the end.
As for the primary duct, as curved as it is, the cross sections are adequate for the engines oem setup. Add to this it is true cold air induction at a good location free of low pressures and that adds efficiency. One downside of the design on 14 to 19 RT series is the reversing fans.
The secondary duct and still airbox serve to smooth turbulence and muffle intake drone. I did have a couple mods I still plan to make regarding the intake tract, just time has not allowed it yet.
I'm a total newbie when it comes to ECU mods but as an engineer (chemical, not mechanical) I know that for most things, it is always a trade-off. Therefore, what is the trade-off with these mods that give me better hp? Fuel efficiency? Engine Life? More frequent Maintenance? etc.
I was also looking to do a Stage 2 on my 2019 F3-S and I see Monster has a new handheld coming out soon. Thoughts? Wait for the handheld or send in the ECU?
I was also looking to do a Stage 2 on my 2019 F3-S and I see Monster has a new handheld coming out soon. Thoughts? Wait for the handheld or send in the ECU?
It sounds like you'll need to purchase the flashes separately (stage 1 = $390/stage 2 = $510), in addition to the $300 hardware piece. This will allow you to use the device to flash between stage 1 or 2 and stock. That said, the stage 2 requires your air cleaner cover to be drilled. Might not want to use a stock tune with this.
2022 RT Sea To Sky
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It sounds like you'll need to purchase the flashes separately (stage 1 = $390/stage 2 = $510), in addition to the $300 hardware piece. This will allow you to use the device to flash between stage 1 or 2 and stock. That said, the stage 2 requires your air cleaner cover to be drilled. Might not want to use a stock tune with this.
If he wants to switch from stage II to stock he can just purchase another airlid and keep it in his garage..and switch it when he changes tunes or go back to stock. they are only about 20.00 bucks on cheap cycle parts.com . I have a spare one in my garage...
I was also looking to do a Stage 2 on my 2019 F3-S and I see Monster has a new handheld coming out soon. Thoughts? Wait for the handheld or send in the ECU?
You're better off mailing in the ECU with the cover. So that way your ECU profile stage II and factory settings is already on record. When the hand programmer comes out..they just send out the programmer with your profile on it...if you decide to purchase it....this is actually the better way to go...
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Originally Posted by GRUNT
