Nothing really new here but I thought it worthy of sharing as it describes the tastes of younger consumers when it comes to the bigger bikes for touring. I'd opine that the Harley's and Spyders are as different as Apples and Oranges but they do have similar price points and they share the same roads. Click on the link for what the younger folks are thinking.
LORD GRANT ME THE SENILITY TO FORGET THE PEOPLE I NEVER LIKED,
THE GOOD FORTUNE TO RUN INTO THE ONES I DO LIKE,
AND THE EYE SIGHT TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE.
2016 Spyder RTS
BRP and HD have been making adjustments to their product line, smaller bikes, cheaper, even hybrid bikes in the works. things are changing slowly don't count them out.
Nothing really new here but I thought it worthy of sharing as it describes the tastes of younger consumers when it comes to the bigger bikes for touring. I'd opine that the Harley's and Spyders are as different as Apples and Oranges but they do have similar price points and they share the same roads. Click on the link for what the younger folks are thinking.
HD have an image problem hence the declining sales is my take.Millennials with enough coin won't waste it on a product that represents what they aren't.All the electric bikes HD have coming will carry the baggage (badge) of a bygone era and won't have the market segment to their own so no reason to think these will halt the slump.
The Asian market push is an uphill battle with the Street 750 being annihilated by Royal Enfield with a less than half the price advantage.That Harley badge is no longer all it takes to win sales.
From a Spyder/Ryker point of view where is the competition,it's purely from within (not ideal from a consumer point of view).Thankfully the Ryker is different enough to almost guarantee it's success.Only way it could be better is if it were available with a 'I don't want the stock seat/shocks/swaybar etc give me a rebate to upgrade option'.If you add up the inevitable mods they are not millennial cheap.
Think more has to do with "Branding" companies act so worried their name is known, & no worries about actual product or service it stands for. not to mention the Outrageous salery's for the people making the wrong decisions & not paying attention to the results, just finding blame somewhere else. Often joked about on a production line (I was on) how the tie on the "suits" upstairs was too tight, cutting off the circulation. Because the timeline we were given & the lack of parts (&number of other things) to complete.
just a thought
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The Ryker finally offers the "gateway drug" to 3 wheels and is priced as an intro bike.
Look at Honda and Kawasaki - Kawi has had 250's for a long time and now added the Z400 with ABS - MSRP $4800. They've been very aggressive at targeting the younger market. Yamaha and Honda are introducing "retro" bikes along with affordable 300cc sport and cafe models.
H-D has been killing itself for years. It is a poorly run company. They haven't introducted innovative new models and just relied on the "weekend pirates" for sales.
There is one problem that all motorcycle companies are dealing with. Manual transmissions...When I first started riding (at the grand old age of 51) I had no problem understanding clutch and shifting. Of course I had to learn the timing and stalled my fair share. But I had a friend who did not know how to drive a stick shift car. Her learning curve was very steep and she had a hard time getting the feel.
How many young people have even see a manual transmission in a car, let alone drive one? I don't know the answer except the younger people are buying scooters - no shifting involved. Something to ponder I guess.
HD have an image problem hence the declining sales is my take.Millennials with enough coin won't waste it on a product that represents what they aren't.All the electric bikes HD have coming will carry the baggage (badge) of a bygone era and won't have the market segment to their own so no reason to think these will halt the slump.
The Asian market push is an uphill battle with the Street 750 being annihilated by Royal Enfield with a less than half the price advantage.That Harley badge is no longer all it takes to win sales.
From a Spyder/Ryker point of view where is the competition,it's purely from within (not ideal from a consumer point of view).Thankfully the Ryker is different enough to almost guarantee it's success.Only way it could be better is if it were available with a 'I don't want the stock seat/shocks/swaybar etc give me a rebate to upgrade option'.If you add up the inevitable mods they are not millennial cheap.
Todays Fact: Royal Enfield vs HD street in the U.S. is no competition and about the same price if you can even fine a Royal Enfield. I can't even find a Royal Enfield around the area I live in. But you are talking about the Asian market so you correct in that market. That is why HD wanted to open production plants in that market to compete. As far as BRP there are other companies starting to look at them. Yamaha I think just came out with a bike that has two wheels in the front. There is a new after market kit for HD that puts two wheels on the front and still be able to lean. So the idea of three wheels (two in the front) is catching on. Hybrid; HD and BRP, each company will have some type of Hybrid one day its in the works. My point is everyone will adjust their marketing and products overtime and I see them doing that slowly.
Todays Fact: Royal Enfield vs HD street in the U.S. is no competition and about the same price if you can even fine a Royal Enfield. I can't even find a Royal Enfield around the area I live in. But you are talking about the Asian market so you correct in that market. That is why HD wanted to open production plants in that market to compete. As far as BRP there are other companies starting to look at them. Yamaha I think just came out with a bike that has two wheels in the front. There is a new after market kit for HD that puts two wheels on the front and still be able to lean. So the idea of three wheels (two in the front) is catching on. Hybrid; HD and BRP, each company will have some type of Hybrid one day its in the works. My point is everyone will adjust their marketing and products overtime and I see them doing that slowly.
HD have stated they want international sales to be 50% of their total.The Street line are assembled in India for that market and exported from there to surrounding markets like Australia.We don't get the USA built Streets here we get the Indian builds.The price hasn't changed at all for us and as I said cost more than double the price of an Enfield it was designed to compete with in India.It's business as usual for HD with an overpriced and under engineered offering like the badge gives them some mystical advantage over any competition.Only the gullible fall for a plan like that.
The Ryker finally offers the "gateway drug" to 3 wheels and is priced as an intro bike.
Look at Honda and Kawasaki - Kawi has had 250's for a long time and now added the Z400 with ABS - MSRP $4800. They've been very aggressive at targeting the younger market. Yamaha and Honda are introducing "retro" bikes along with affordable 300cc sport and cafe models.
H-D has been killing itself for years. It is a poorly run company. They haven't introducted innovative new models and just relied on the "weekend pirates" for sales.
There is one problem that all motorcycle companies are dealing with. Manual transmissions...When I first started riding (at the grand old age of 51) I had no problem understanding clutch and shifting. Of course I had to learn the timing and stalled my fair share. But I had a friend who did not know how to drive a stick shift car. Her learning curve was very steep and she had a hard time getting the feel.
How many young people have even see a manual transmission in a car, let alone drive one? I don't know the answer except the younger people are buying scooters - no shifting involved. Something to ponder I guess.
It's so funny that you say young people have never seen a manual transmission in a car. Not only that, but my kids get so confused with any engine powered anything even if it has a manual choke!!! They are so used to the EFI engines just turn the key and go.
I think that Can-Am is on the right track with the Ryker in so many ways, I won't start listing them.
I do think though that Harley, & Can-Am both still need to make some major styling improvements aimed at younger buyers, and add more sporty riding positions. Kids though just don't have it in them as much period because of electronics. If I go farther up north in WI the kids are totally different. They are actually playing in the garages more with toys (Snowmobiles, ATV's Motocross bikes and such).
Harley doesn't seem to want to change. They were onto something with Buell, but even those bikes really had a hard time finding a home with a category. Not really a crotch rocket or a sport touring, in general the styling was just different. Most Jap manufactures offer bikes to fit all markets / buyers. Harley, & Can-Am (not as bad) don't cover all types of buyers, Ryker is on track and I can only see things getting better into the future with this idea
OK, I admit I usually show this photo (H-D Topper) as a parody of H-D's product line. But, in about 1959 when I was about 7 or so, I BEGGED my father for a 'motorcycle.' He took me to the nearest H-D dealer, which was on the north side of Ft. Worth.
I saw two things I fell in love with: A H-D Servi-Car and a TOPPER!!!! Google the Topper. Interesting read.
I knew I could ride/drive the Servi-Car since I didn't need to touch the ground. The Topper was almost small enough to ride. BTW, when I was about 10 or 11, dad bought me a used Lambretta 125. I was in HOG HEAVEN!!! But, when it fell over, as it did a lot, I had to get help to pick it up. Very heavy for a 10 year old.
So, what does this have to do with H-D's decline?
I seriously think H-D should revisit the "Topper" concept. It was a bad vehicle, but it could have been a contender with Vespa if properly engineered. Anyone ever heard of a VESPA?? Yep, still strong today - - -
So, H-D should not stop making the usual big bikes, but FOCUS on a true entry level 'bike' the millennials want: CVT scooters. H-D can do it. The question is, will they do it and put the passion (engineering) into the project that is shown in the big bikes.
Also, the dealers must be aggressively retrained. The first time I walked into a H-D dealer in 2004 looking for a new bike, I wasn't wearing the proper attire - no H-D T-Shirts, etc. Not a single salesman would talk to me. Finally, a guy at the parts counter came over and did a nice job of showing me the various bikes.
Needless to say, I bought a Honda VTX 1800C, and I am glad I did. Harley had a lot of quality problems with those bikes. Actually, bad design problems. Remember the timing chain tensioner???
H-D and Indian, for the most part, appeal to the Baby Boomers who like the "biker" lifestyle. That appeal is leaving with the Boomers. Millennials could care less about that, no appeal. Plus, the cost is beyond the average millennials income unless they have been very successful. The price and "lifestyle" appeal are lost on the millennials. Motorcycle manufactures are going to have to come up with a bike that will appeal to they younger folks.
Younger folks are buying smaller and/or customizing old Japanese bikes which they can acquire inexpensively and personalize. I think it will be a tough adjustment for H-D but they do realize bold moves are needed to secure their future.
The LiveWire is a cool looking bike $30K and only 100 miles on a charge is a tough sell. And the performance is not ground breaking. I applaud their being bold but hope this first effort does not do more harm than help to them.
CVT scooters with engines of 400cc or larger are great. I would (and have) cover large distances on them with ease. Just can't hold them upright these days.
I just saw my first advertisement for Harley's "LiveWire"...
Had to look it up. I guess I'll see what it looks like when it exits protype, but at that cost? Holy check! Not sure what catagory they are going for. I cannot imagine that's the real price.
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CVT scooters with engines of 400cc or larger are great. I would (and have) cover large distances on them with ease. Just can't hold them upright these days.
Piaggio MP3 500 could be an option if holding upright is a 'while stopped' sort of situation.
Here is my take: the younger kids/crowds( like the 30 year olds) have college loans, finding jobs, and housing to pay for. So they don't or wont have the extra $$ to spend on big ticket bikes( example H-D etc.)
I think that BRP position them self's to get the younger kids/crowds (like the 30 year olds) by introducing the Ryker to there spyder line-up. If the younger crowd likes the Ryker, they may trade up to the other spyder models.
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Originally Posted by spyderider1
not to mention the Outrageous salery's for the people making the wrong decisions & not paying attention to the results, just finding blame somewhere else. Often joked about on a production line (I was on) how the tie on the "suits" upstairs was too tight, cutting off the circulation. Because the timeline we were given & the lack of parts (&number of other things) to complete.
