Ryker front tires size is Proprietary! Thanks again BRP........

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

In regards to tire size, I see many new cars come out that have unique tire sizes. Once they are released to market then tire makers start making tires for that size. Needless to say, you most likely will not need to get new front tires for a new Ryker for at least a year or two, so in my mind, this is a non issue.
And when it does come up, I will most likely find the tire that fits it the closest. But seeing as how Can Am is putting these tires on their Rykers now, its pretty safe to say that in a year or two, there will plenty of replacement tires available.

As for the large nut to hold the tire one, buy the tool for it. It may not be available right this minute, but it will be eventually.

IMHO, the 16 inch wheel size is not New …. been around for decades ….. the reason there aren't many Auto tires that are narrow is because the cars they were designed for weren't Small...… I checked the Vredestein's web site ( info from the manufacturer ) …. they specialized in the European market ( for the most part ) the cars in Europe tend to be much smaller than in the USA , and the tires are narrower..... But in the 16 inch size even Vredestein smallest tire is a 185/50-16 …… The wheel can be shimmed out from the hub ...not an un-common practice. Vredestein does make quite a few FRONT tires for the Spyder 14 & 15 inch wheels …….. Mike

[Markubis]

Agreed, 16 inch rims have been around for a long time. What throws a wrench into these tires is the wrap length of 145....its not a common size.

[cueman]

Thanks Markububis, that is a great tire calculator.

It has a neat feature that allows you to compare two sizes of tires for comparison. I compared the Ryker front tire size 145/60R/16 and the Yokohama 175/50R/16. The diameter is very nearly exact, but the rub is the Yokohama is 1.2 inches wider. It may fit, perhaps Ron or someone else can take a ruler out to their Ryker and check it out for us.

After looking at the front tire clearance on my Rally I would say there is not enough clearance to use 1/2” wider tires on each side to clear the front fender. The fender and tire side are very close to being even. Another 1/2” wider tire would IMO extend past the fenders edge. Now I realize just about anything can be made to work but, I will stay with OEM front tires until something better comes along. cueman

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

After looking at the front tire clearance on my Rally I would say there is not enough clearance to use 1/2” wider tires on each side to clear the front fender. The fender and tire side are very close to being even. Another 1/2” wider tire would IMO extend past the fenders edge. Now I realize just about anything can be made to work but, I will stay with OEM front tires until something better comes along. cueman

… I'm willing to dance with the Devil …. I have used 185/55 -15 inch tires on my 2014 RT …. I spaced out the Brackets with washers and put washers on the hubs.... 24,000 + miles with no issues ….. but that's me ......…. Mike

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I'm of the mind that this discussion could be characterized as premature. Who knows, maybe the Ryker tires, particularly the front ones, will give decent mileage with good rolling characteristics and be quite satisfactory, even if overpriced. I will admit that Kenda's track record doesn't bode well for that thought, but there's always hope!

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I'm of the mind that this discussion could be characterized as premature. Who knows, maybe the Ryker tires, particularly the front ones, will give decent mileage with good rolling characteristics and be quite satisfactory, even if overpriced. I will admit that Kenda's track record doesn't bode well for that thought, but there's always hope!

...….. I've never liked the Kenda's for many reasons …. However for the front tires ( only the front ) if you have really good alignment they will give decent service and good mileage …. However their track record for mediocrity and marginal construction makes them a poor REPEAT purchase ...unless you can't use Auto tires …...jmho …. Mike

[farmer54]

After reading this post I did some looking up of car tires and found Continental 125-70-16, they are the same dia. same sidewall size but .80 in. narrower, not perfect but I think they would do if you aren't happy with Kenda tires. Also I think about $110 shipped to you from Tire Rack. Farmer 54

[watertowerman]

I looked at the front fenders on my Rally and there are 3 bolts, I was planning on lifting the fenders for gravel clearance. 6 - 1 Inch center hole to hole flat bar steel or alum lifts should lift them.

[Leland]

After reading this post I did some looking up of car tires and found Continental 125-70-16, they are the same dia. same sidewall size but .80 in. narrower, not perfect but I think they would do if you aren't happy with Kenda tires. Also I think about $110 shipped to you from Tire Rack. Farmer 54

@Farmer64

I looked up the Continental 125-70-16 on Tire Rack and only found one tire (below).

https://tires.tirerack.com/search?p=...nd:continental

This is a Spare Tire Only, these are usually speed limited to 50 mph max. and very short travel distances This would be unsafe for use on the Ryker.

If there is another at 125-70-16 at Tire Rack that is not rated (Spare) in this size would you please post a link for us?

I could find no other tires in this size that was not a spare rated service on the internet either.

[Leland]

The use of wider tires on the Ryker maybe our only choice in the future. If this is the case then maybe it would be prudent to consider the possibility that installing wider tires on the front of the Ryker may create problems. We have been able to use a fairly large variety of tires on the Spyders because we have power steering to handle the feedback from the road.

After watching many Blogs or Vlog videos of the Ryker I have become aware that at certain times strong oscillating feedback is feed from the front tires backward through the steering system into the riders arms. I've only seen this happen when the rider is turning sharply out of small radius turn while accelerating hard. Which appears to be the "Most Fun" of the maneuvers for this bike. The oscillations appear to dampen quickly, but they seem to catch the rider by surprise. I'm sure it would easy to adapt to this behavior.

My concern is, will this feedback into the handlebars be increased when wider tires are installed on the Ryker. Will it cause the bike to wander "to and fro" across the lane?

I notice on Youtube today that the owner of the Ryker in Texas with the low-oil gearbox problems was complaining that his Ryker with only 25 miles wander back and forth and the tail wagged along causing him some concern. He said the tail wage started at 50 mph. He talked about having the dealer check the alignment. He felt his Ryker may have been damaged in shipping, it is difficult to know if it was transit damage or a factory alignment that was not performed correctly. But Rykers may also be sensitive to alignment like the Spyder. How to properly align a Ryker is also a question to address.

To correctly align a Ryker it will need to connected to a BRP BUDS computer system found only at BRP dealerships and a few independent shops. The Ryker has a steering position sensor onboard that must be precisely center to start the alignment process, similar to a Spyder. This disables the ability of owners to perform a "DIY" alignments, thus increasing the operational/ownership cost of the Ryker. (EDIT: look below for an update on this paragraph)

To summarize:

Will wider front tires on the Ryker alter the handling, will it increase road feedback into the handlebars since power steering is not available to absorb the energy?

Is the Ryker sensitive to front end alignment, especially since it does not have power steering?

How will wider tires affect the possibility of "wander" by an "partial out of alignment" Ryker?

How is a Ryker correctly aligned? Is the use of a Laser alignment required? Is a BUDS connection mandatory?

These things are all interrelated.

Update: January 24, 2019 I can not find a steering position sensor on the IPC that is posted at this location on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...4764802&type=3

Shawn Smoak pointed out in one of his Vlog on the Ryker the location of the steering position sensor. It was visible in the video, but I cannot find it on the IPD. I do not know if a BUDS connection is required to do an alignment on a Ryker at this date.

[farmer54]

Leland you are right I didn't look up the speed spec until afterward and then I saw it said it was a doughtnut. I'm sorry for the mistake. farmer54

[farmer54]

Hey guys I got to looking at mc tires on BikeBandit and found some 120-70-16 size tires. These are close to same size except 1" narrower and are rated "S" speed, I used the Shinko SR567 for size comparison. Frank farmer 54

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Hey guys I got to looking at mc tires on BikeBandit and found some 120-70-16 size tires. These are close to same size except 1" narrower and are rated "S" speed, I used the Shinko SR567 for size comparison. Frank farmer 54

Motorcycle tires don't have the correct bead design for the Spyder wheels. OEM Spyder tires are a hybrid. They're designated and sold as Special Motorcylce Use Only but the tire design is essentially the same as automobile tires and uses automobile bead design for the tire and wheel. That design is significantly different from the motorcycle tire bead design. Guys can and do use car tires on two wheel motorcycles but the fit of the bead is not perfect. I don't think anyone has, or is really willing, to use a m/c tire on a car wheel because of the bead differences.

[farmer54]

Thanks for the heads up as I see it has a "mc" rating and I thought it meant it was a cycle tire after going back threw I see it has a special rim, so I guess I,ll buy from BRP when needed. Frank

[Triumphcycleman]

here's my 2 cents on the tires. First, BRP claims 40% better wear than the Spyders. I am guessing that is due to the lightness of the Ryker. Second, I would be very, very concerned about putting car tires on a Ryker. Car tires are expected to bear approx 1,000 lbs of downforce per tire. The compound and stiffness are designed for it. On a Spyder RT, weighing 1200 lbs wet, with 400 lbs of rider/passenger and gear, you have 1600 lbs divided by 3 wheels = 534 lbs of force. That is why car tires last a long time on an rt, but also why they will never stop as quickly with car tires on it. Now look at a Ryker. At 630 lbs wet, add a single 250lb rider, and you have 880 lbs divided by 3 = 293 lbs of horizontal downforce on the tire. So you have a tire designed and rated for 1,000 lbs of down force getting only 1/3rd. It likely won't stop, and it might not turn. Bad idea, when you are saving $40 but you end up in the other lane or underneath the car stopped in front of you. What did you save?
One other comment. The lateral force on a tire is directly related to the tires durometer measured compound, contact patch area, and horizontal down force. All I see from a wider, harder compound front tire is increased steering effort from a larger frictional contact patch (rotational lateral force) but even less horizontal force as the tires weight will be further diluted by the larger contact patch. It is a lose - lose deal. The bike will be harder to steer, and it will slide quicker! The car tire idea is a terrible idea for a Ryker in my opinion.

[Leland]

here's my 2 cents on the tires. First, BRP claims 40% better wear than the Spyders. I am guessing that is due to the lightness of the Ryker. Second, I would be very, very concerned about putting car tires on a Ryker. Car tires are expected to bear approx 1,000 lbs of downforce per tire. The compound and stiffness are designed for it. On a Spyder RT, weighing 1200 lbs wet, with 400 lbs of rider/passenger and gear, you have 1600 lbs divided by 3 wheels = 534 lbs of force. That is why car tires last a long time on an rt, but also why they will never stop as quickly with car tires on it. Now look at a Ryker. At 630 lbs wet, add a single 250lb rider, and you have 880 lbs divided by 3 = 293 lbs of horizontal downforce on the tire. So you have a tire designed and rated for 1,000 lbs of down force getting only 1/3rd. It likely won't stop, and it might not turn. Bad idea, when you are saving $40 but you end up in the other lane or underneath the car stopped in front of you. What did you save?
One other comment. The lateral force on a tire is directly related to the tires durometer measured compound, contact patch area, and horizontal down force. All I see from a wider, harder compound front tire is increased steering effort from a larger frictional contact patch (rotational lateral force) but even less horizontal force as the tires weight will be further diluted by the larger contact patch. It is a lose - lose deal. The bike will be harder to steer, and it will slide quicker! The car tire idea is a terrible idea for a Ryker in my opinion.

@Triumphcycleman,

With all due respect, I understand your point of view. This is not about saving money, in fact quality auto tires cost more than Kenda tires. Many Spyder riders, including myself replaced our Kendas when they worn out with auto tires for several reasons. Kenda tires are very sensitive to front end alignment. Kenda tires wear very poorly if the alignments is not perfect, so BRP's claim for such long service from Kenda tires will only be true if the alignment is perfect. Kenda tire are not great on wet roads. Kenda tires wear out down the center of the tire tread on the rear tire regardless of the operating tire pressure. Kenda tires do not in general handle well. Do a search for "Tires" on this Spyder forum and look at the hundreds of threads, you will not find many Spyder owners bragging about how great Kenda tires handle, some Spyder owner have fair luck with long tire tread life, but that is the minority of the respondents.

In general Kenda tire are not built to high standards. They represent a good revenue flow for BRP. It appear BRP has every intention of retaining Ryker owner tire purchases with BRP. If you choose to use Kenda tires that is wonderful and I'm sure you will have many followers, but for myself and many other Spyder owners that have a working background with Kenda tires it is very frustrating to learn the "No option other than Kendas." We have experience what quality tires can do for the Spyder.

Tire selection for the Ryker is an unknown, especially since the Ryder does not have power-steering. The power-steering is poorly understood by most BRP riders. It's main function is to isolate feedback into the riders arms. The "power" level of assist is regulated by the CPU that is watching the rate gyros, wheel speed sensors, and input torque on the steering handlebars. The power-steering varies it control of feedback to the rider arms based upon the PID, (proportion, integral, derivative) computations. If a Spyder is not in alignment and the tires are of poor quality (Kenda) then the handling is terrible! If new tires are installed but the alignment is still out the Spyder will feel much better, but not right until it is correctly aligned. I proved this to myself on my F3T. Tires make a huge difference on safety and handling for the Spyder. I suspect it would be more, if not the same for a Ryder since it does not have the power-steering to dampen the road feedback into the riders arms.

I'm sure you'll have a fine time with your new Ryker using Kendas, you have no other choice at this time.

Have fun with your new toy.

EDIT; @Triumphcycleman. On your first post to Spyder Riders you introduced yourself and said that you are now a "BRP Spyder dealer". I guess you will profit from the exclusivity of "Kenda's tires only on the Ryker". Does this explain your comment? I quote you here: "The car tire idea is a terrible idea for a Ryker in my opinion"

[Highwayman2013]

Well let’s hope something better than a Kenda comes along.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Hey guys I got to looking at mc tires on BikeBandit and found some 120-70-16 size tires. These are close to same size except 1" narrower and are rated "S" speed, I used the Shinko SR567 for size comparison. Frank farmer 54

with I M S ….. A 16inch tire can be found …. but the one you found is a real Mtc. tire and the TREAD shape is ROUND …. also the tire BEAD is for a MTc. rim ...……..they simply won't work ……………………… Mike

[chris56]

pirelli.jpg

I use my Spyder (Ryker?) here in the Alps - possible for rain on each tour - the Kenda had no "Grip" specially when the roads are wet, so I changed to a good european standard tire - if I would take a ryker now, I hope my dealer keeps the new Kenda and install a Pirelli or so - in the moment only for the rear wheel if we cannot find one for the front..
the front wheels of my RT where not balanced when I got it - so I had to visit a tire-shop on my first tour (in Italy) ..
on the other side I always had to visit my BRP Dealer to adjust my drive-belt after the tire-shop insatalled a new rear tire
one of my Spyder-stories

[Triumphcycleman]

Leland, for your information, we actually make $8 MORE per wheel when mounting a customer supplied tire so...... there goes that theory. If you want to attack me personally for being a dealer, which I have never hid, then so be it. I can handle it.
My point, after a decade of selling and servicing Spyders is that car tires may work a little bit better on a model like an RT riding two up than this really, really light and minimal Ryker. I too wish we had choices beyond Kenda, but right now we do not.

[chris56]

Leland, for your information, we actually make $8 MORE per wheel when mounting a customer supplied tire so...... there goes that theory. If you want to attack me personally for being a dealer, which I have never hid, then so be it. I can handle it.
My point, after a decade of selling and servicing Spyders is that car tires may work a little bit better on a model like an RT riding two up than this really, really light and minimal Ryker. I too wish we had choices beyond Kenda, but right now we do not.

I prefer that my BRP-dealer installs for me the new tires !! (if he can balance the wheels after that) - but it would be really
intresting to make a Panic-brake test with Kendas against Pirellis or so !!

https://www.whichcar.com.au/features...rands-compared

[gskinner]

Like I said, I do not know anything about Spyders or Kenda tires. Just thought that no one has posted yet with some actual first hand experience and mileage on a Ryker to know how the tires perform. Maybe they got it right and they work great on the Ryker. Of course they could be just as bad as everyone agrees they are on the Spyder. Waiting to hear some first hand reports.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Like I said, I do not know anything about Spyders or Kenda tires. Just thought that no one has posted yet with some actual first hand experience and mileage on a Ryker to know how the tires perform. Maybe they got it right and they work great on the Ryker. Of course they could be just as bad as everyone agrees they are on the Spyder. Waiting to hear some first hand reports.

with regard to the front tires as I posted earlier. There is always hope, but the BRP/Kenda track record doesn't encourage such hope!

[Leland]

@gskinner

I'm seeing a few reports on Facebook about Rykers dancing around at highway speeds. Discussions regarding possible alignments issues with Ryker are becoming more common. Today Lamont posted photos on the RykerLovers Facebook page showing a Ryker that was out of alignment from the factory. Many of us received our Spydes out of alignment when purchased new. This seems to standard practice for BRP. The upshot of all of this will be increased tire wear.

Kenda is not going to put some sort of magical fairy dust into the mix for Rykers. Kendas are made in a 3 world country very cheaply. BRP built the Ryker with cost savings as the primary object, it has to be cheap thus you will not see anything other that Kendas for sale from BRP. Kenda tires are built specially for their bikes. These tires are built to work with automotive wheels, not motorcycles wheel, but they have Kenda mold MC into the side wall to convince you they are for motorcycles. They are very light duty and have terrible wet weather performance. As you have read on this thread they represent a hazard in some Spyder rider minds.

Okay, now let us give up on the wishful thinking postings and go find a tire that will fit the Ryker front wheels...... Starting looking

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Kenda tires are built specially for their bikes. These tires are built to work with automotive wheels, not motorcycles wheel, but they have Kenda mold MC into the side wall to convince you they are for motorcycles.

It's not to convince anyone. It's the law. NHTSA regulations require tire manufacturers to mark on the sidewall the application of the tire if it is not intended for automotive use. And we all agree the BRP/Kendas are not intended to be used on cars. The marking actually is "For Special Motorcycle Use Only". That's to make clear they are not intended for general motorcycle use.