More on the subject by an unhappy Ryker owner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeS60qzIp54
I don't agree with bashing the dealer but the information regarding the service notice appears to be correct.
This video has bad information. You don't take the fill cap off your car engine and expect to see oil to the top. The Ryker Gear Box is similar. Except that you have a Fill Level Plug remotely located from the Fill Plug instead of a dipstick remotely located. The Fill Plug hole is for filling the Gear Box Only. Not for checking the oil level.
I think the culprit here is the Owner's Manual giving bad advise. So I can't fault the guy in this video for the error in that respect. But I hope he pulls the video. Because this video is going to generate a great deal of unnecessary angst, and possibly damage as some will simply fill their gear box to the top of the fill plug, which will be very bad.
Is there no way for the customer to check this..?? is it a sealed unit ..?? don't know what is involved in doing the checking but the dealers will be busy when this gets spread around....
Brand new oil will be pretty thin on gears above the oil level. So I'm not necessarily surprised that there does not appear to be much oil film on the gears that you can see through the fill plug hole, which is about 2 inches above the proper oil level.
In any case. It would be a very sad thing if someone did damage to their gear box based on bad information. I am hoping this does not happen.
Baja Ron, I posted the video having stumbled on it while watching other reviews. The "Katy" that the video producer refers to is west of Houston and far away from Alaska. I posted the link to the video as a heads up that there was information on the internet regarding the issue; not to be inflammatory. Those of us that have been following the thread are aware of the issue and thanks to you and LaMonster we now know the correct information. If I was out of line in posting the link to the video, I apologize and accept the blame but spreading inflammatory mis-information was not my intention.
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-25-2019 at 08:52 PM.
Reason: correct content
Baja Ron, I posted the video having stumbled on it while watching other reviews. The "Katy" that the video producer refers to is west of Houston and far away from Alaska. I posted the link to the video as a heads up that there was information on the internet regarding the issue; not to be inflammatory. Those of us that have been following the thread are aware of the issue and thanks to you and LaMonster we now know the correct information. If I was out of line in posting the link to the video, I apologize and accept the blame but spreading information was not my intention.
You were fine. I just got too emotional about it and said some things that I now regret. Potentially damaging information like what the video portrayes upsets me. But it does not justify my initial reaction or some of my comments. There is a real problem and that is the misinformation in the Owner's manual. I was wrong to disparage the video producer. But you have done nothing wrong.
I pulled the post that you quote and modified another post that I think was a bit inappropriate. I am hoping that is adequate.
Baja Ron, no harm no foul from my standpoint. Y'all have been nothing but helpful to me. I am just sorry that the link I posted has caused so much consternation to the community.
Baja Ron, no harm no foul from my standpoint. Y'all have been nothing but helpful to me. I am just sorry that the link I posted has caused so much consternation to the community.
It’s one of those interesting moments “should it stay, should it go”. In the spirit of this being a place to learn and get further educated, something that I appreciate daily here, I think it’s a good opportunity to understand how to and how not to check the fluid level as well as understanding potentially confusing info in the owners manual. Hopefully we all come away a bit smarter on the topic. So for the time being I think we are wrapping up in a good spot.
2015 Pearl White RTL
Baja Ron Sway Bar
Russell Day Long Seat
Strobe Brake Light
Mirror Mount Turn Signal Indicator
Baja Ron, no harm no foul from my standpoint. Y'all have been nothing but helpful to me. I am just sorry that the link I posted has caused so much consternation to the community.
In my opinion, you're good. I never had an issue with your posting the link. I did get over ventilated with my reaction to that video. But that isn't your fault. Never intended to imply that your posting of the video was a problem.
Originally Posted by LeftCoast
It’s one of those interesting moments “should it stay, should it go”. In the spirit of this being a place to learn and get further educated, something that I appreciate daily here, I think it’s a good opportunity to understand how to and how not to check the fluid level as well as understanding potentially confusing info in the owners manual. Hopefully we all come away a bit smarter on the topic. So for the time being I think we are wrapping up in a good spot.
I agree. This site is all about information. This discussion (including the bad-info video) may well help someone, or many someones. That's what it is all about.
In my opinion, you're good. I never had an issue with your posting the link. I did get over ventilated with my reaction to that video. But that isn't your fault. Never intended to imply that your posting of the video was a problem.
I agree. This site is all about information. This discussion (including the bad-info video) may well help someone, or many someones. That's what it is all about.
Good evening, all! I didn't mean to stir the pot here, but I got caught out on this issue regarding the low oil service bulletin. That is my video on YouTube to document the case for a potential warranty claim, should one arise in the future. I guess this isn't the best intro post to a forum, so my apologies to all if I generated any unnecessary angst. I must be one of the "lucky ones" with a low or empty gearbox.
All of the confusion surrounding this issue is due to the missing or incorrect procedures in the Can-Am Operator's Manual, where they omit a couple of critical steps and highlight the wrong location as the check bolt. I didn't want to take down the video which might cause discontinuity. Instead, I have updated the comments and video description with corrected information to the best of my ability. The video now has a "card" at the intro that links to the follow-up video showing the correct oil level location, and there is also a Google Drive link containing the service bulletin images that Lamonster so kindly uploaded to this forum.
The gear noise that I heard on deceleration after the first ride might be normal due to the design of the gearbox on this bike, but it seemed to get louder as I rode further (more heat in the box). When I parked it at my office, switched into reverse, it hung until I revved the motor up a bit and then loudly whacked/clunked into reverse (much louder than when I test rode it at the dealership). I repeated the forward/reverse a couple of times and the issue persisted in both directions. I let it cool down about 30 minutes, tried it again, and it was much less noticeable. That's when I started researching the Ryker's to see if this was "normal". Every bike has a personality, so this could be normal... I was just being cautious.
Unfortunately for me, the low/empty gearbox issue seems to be a reality for my Ryker. The second video shows what I did to verify the oil level this morning... pulled the level bolt, pointed the nose uphill, but no oil at the check hole. I even stuck a white zip-tie about 3" or so into the hole and it came out dry. The check bolt itself was also dry (no oil)... just a thin coating of anti-seize on the threads. I'm relatively new to the Can-Am world, but not new to mechanics or motorcycling. I'm a motorcycle veteran with 40+ years of wrenching experience (and 14 bikes currently in the stable... Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Ducati, Chinesium Crap, etc). So, I try not to make any rash assumptions about service departments or manufacturer's claims about TSB's and recalls being performed. However, in this case, I was nose-to-nose with the problem and I knew that something was amiss.
Earlier in the day, I had an agreement with the dealer to have it towed back to the service department to check the problem (and to document the issue on the VIN for future reference). They called me back later in the afternoon and said that they were assured by their service department that the oil level had been checked (contrary to the evidence), and asked me to ride it back to the dealership to be checked out. Before I do that, I will certainly document the topping-off of the gearbox to see how low it is. It needs to go back for an alignment check anyway... hopefully this one isn't a lemon, because I really like the bike and waited months to get my hands on this one.
So, long story short... I don't know if any damage has been done in these first 25 miles, or exactly how low the gearbox oil is at this point. I plan to pick up a quart of 75W140 SYN gear oil and top it off before venturing any further. Fortunately, I do have several other bikes to ride while this is sorted out, so I'm in no particular rush to break anything or make enemies in the process. The videos are to document what, for all visible and logical accounts, seems to be an issue of missed PDI/pre-sales check, and to cover my due-diligence if a warranty issue should occur. At the very least, the alignment issue and scratched-up A-arms should not have slipped past the quality check ride. Again, I'm not intentionally bashing the dealer... I have purchased several other bikes from them with no issues. These are just the facts as they have revealed themselves.
So far, my Ryker ownership experience has been a case of caveat emptor and shoot-the-messenger all in one. Hopefully this will improve. ;-)
Good evening, all! I didn't mean to stir the pot here, but I got caught out on this issue regarding the low oil service bulletin. That is my video on YouTube to document the case for a potential warranty claim, should one arise in the future. I guess this isn't the best intro post to a forum, so my apologies to all if I generated any unnecessary angst. I must be one of the "lucky ones" with a low or empty gearbox.
Best regards,
QuasiMotard
Katy, TX, USA
Nice post. Impressed with your integrity. I think this saga is as resolved as it can be, other than the final determination regarding your particular gear box.
I must say that I was somewhat surprised at how much noise my gear box made. Not horrendous, by any means. But somehow I think I was expecting that it would be quieter than a standard MC transmission, which it is not. And the engagement clunk, which I've discovered is normal for a CVT, is a bit disconcerting at first. Though again, nature of the beast. None of which is going to be a problem for me. You always listen and pay close attention to things on a new ride. I don't want to make it sound like any of this is particularly annoying or going to be an issue for me. Just my observations based on ignorant expectations. Never having owned a CVT vehicle before. Once engaged this is an extremely smooth transmission. And you'll never miss a shift or be in the wrong gear.
Not sure a zip tie is the best way to check the oil level as they don't necessarily go down once they clear the hole. Though I suspect that you bent it to accomplish the intended task. I used a small Allen wrench. That assured me of an accurate reading. Though no oil came out of the Oil Level hole, (sitting level). The oil did come up to the top of the Oil Level Hole on the Allen wrench.
Here is hoping that your Ryker Gear Box is not damaged. It is a shame that such a simple yet critical step might have been missed.
Please come back and let us know the rest of the story. I think where this goes from here may actually be more important than how you got to this point.
Here is hoping that your Ryker Gear Box is not damaged. It is a shame that such a simple yet critical step might have been missed.
Please come back and let us know the rest of the story. I think where this goes from here may actually be more important than how you got to this point.
Howdy all! The weather was better in Houston today, so I stopped by a different Can-Am dealer to purchase a quart of XPS 75W-140 gear oil to finish out the gearbox issue. As I suspected, it was very low. I dumped about 145 mL or so into it before I got to the threads at the check hole. It was about 30% under-filled... not just a little bit. So, that obviously wasn't checked per the TSB/recall. Considering the fact that the box wasn't completely dry and it was only driven/ridden 25 miles, I suspect that no major damage was done.
I also checked the tire pressures to see if that might be causing the tail wag. They were 17, 17, and 23.5 (left, right, rear)... no drastic changes in temperature or elevation since I took delivery last Friday. They should be 20, 20, 28. Unfortunately that didn't fix the wandering, so it must be something in the alignment (feels like toe-out and camber issue on front-right). It looks like the dealer just skipped over the bike and ticked boxes on the PDI form to get it out the door. Lucky me. The kicker is that they had 6 business days to get it ready after I gave them my deposit... it wasn't a rush delivery. Such a let-down for what should be a fun experience. After I settle up with this dealer on the current issues, I think I'll be shopping and servicing elsewhere in the future.
This is the walk-around and tire check video (with my dealer rant... sorry, couldn't bite my tongue on on this one): https://youtu.be/84q8IRQYQvM
I video-documented everything again, and I'll be delivering it back to them (isn't that backwards?) so they can re-check everything and also fix the alignment. I have no doubt that the Ryker will be a great bike once these issues are resolved... it's just getting there that's tedious.
--
QM
Last edited by QuasiMotard; 01-26-2019 at 01:07 AM.
Reason: Added links to videos
Howdy all! The weather was better in Houston today, so I stopped by a different Can-Am dealer to purchase a quart of XPS 75W-140 gear oil to finish out the gearbox issue. As I suspected, it was very low. I dumped about 145 mL or so into it before I got to the threads at the check hole. It was about 30% under-filled... not just a little bit. So, that obviously wasn't checked per the TSB/recall. Considering the fact that the box wasn't completely dry and it was only driven/ridden 25 miles, I suspect that no major damage was done.
I also checked the tire pressures to see if that might be causing the tail wag. They were 17, 17, and 23.5 (left, right, rear)... no drastic changes in temperature or elevation since I took delivery last Friday. They should be 20, 20, 28. Unfortunately that didn't fix the wandering, so it must be something in the alignment (feels like toe-out and camber issue on front-right). It looks like the dealer just skipped over the bike and ticked boxes on the PDI form to get it out the door. Lucky me. The kicker is that they had 6 business days to get it ready after I gave them my deposit... it wasn't a rush delivery. Such a let-down for what should be a fun experience. After I settle up with this dealer on the current issues, I think I'll be shopping and servicing elsewhere in the future.
I video-documented everything again, and I'll be delivering it back to them (isn't that backwards?) so they can re-check everything and also fix the alignment. I have no doubt that the Ryker will be a great bike once these issues are resolved... it's just getting there that's tedious.
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QM
Let us know if the gear box noise is reduced after filling to the correct level. With it that low I suspect there will be some reduction in gear box noise.
Howdy all! The weather was better in Houston today, so I stopped by a different Can-Am dealer to purchase a quart of XPS 75W-140 gear oil to finish out the gearbox issue. As I suspected, it was very low. I dumped about 145 mL or so into it before I got to the threads at the check hole. It was about 30% under-filled... not just a little bit. So, that obviously wasn't checked per the TSB/recall. Considering the fact that the box wasn't completely dry and it was only driven/ridden 25 miles, I suspect that no major damage was done.
I also checked the tire pressures to see if that might be causing the tail wag. They were 17, 17, and 23.5 (left, right, rear)... no drastic changes in temperature or elevation since I took delivery last Friday. They should be 20, 20, 28. Unfortunately that didn't fix the wandering, so it must be something in the alignment (feels like toe-out and camber issue on front-right). It looks like the dealer just skipped over the bike and ticked boxes on the PDI form to get it out the door. Lucky me. The kicker is that they had 6 business days to get it ready after I gave them my deposit... it wasn't a rush delivery. Such a let-down for what should be a fun experience. After I settle up with this dealer on the current issues, I think I'll be shopping and servicing elsewhere in the future.
I video-documented everything again, and I'll be delivering it back to them (isn't that backwards?) so they can re-check everything and also fix the alignment. I have no doubt that the Ryker will be a great bike once these issues are resolved... it's just getting there that's tedious.
--
QM
@QM
It would be a good idea to have the dealership inspect the oil level in the final drive gearbox. I have attached the IPD of the final drive system. The inspection/fill plug is hidden behind the rear tire/wheel assembly and is labeled #50a. To check or change the oil the rear wheel must be removed using the lovely special BRP socket and 225 ft/lbs of torque. I will bet that this gearbox is not being inspected during pre-delivery prep inspections of Rykers.
It would be smart to be present during the removal of this inspection plug and witness the oil level in person. A video recording would be helpful too. I would also like to suggest you dump out the current oil in you gearbox and install fresh oil. Take a look at the amount of swarth in the oil.
Would you please ask the dealership if your Ryker needs to be attached to a BUDS computers connection to properly align a Ryker?
I'm sure you aware that Spyders are very sensitive to alignment issues. If the tires and alignment are not carefully chosen and setup the bike will wander. You don't have a choice on tires selection at this point in time, but historically the factory Kenda brand of tires has been very sensitive to alignment issues. Currently only the Kenda brand of tires are factory installed on Rykers.
Although I have not heard anything I can identify as gear noise on my Rally I do hear distinctive CVT belt noise on deceleration. To me it sounds like a turbo spooling up and back down. Like any new bike I am still getting used to its individual idiosyncrasies.
Let us know if the gear box noise is reduced after filling to the correct level. With it that low I suspect there will be some reduction in gear box noise.
Yes, the gearbox noise is significantly reduced. It still clunks when engaging reverse sometimes, but it's not as noticeable as it was before the top-off. I suspect that the oil already in the gearbox is the thinner variety and this thicker oil is dampening the metal-to-metal engagement due to the higher film strength. I repeated my test of warming up the bike on a short ride, then going forward/reverse/forward several times. 4/5 times it didn't clunk at all, whereas the previous test it wouldn't engage either direction without a loud WHACK after it warmed up. As noted in the video that I posted, I plan to drain the box and fill with a single oil type... it's probably a mix right now.
I still noticed some clunks from the rear diff when engaging forward at low speeds, but that might be the behavior of the ring and pinion in this model... time will tell. I do plan to insist that the dealer check the rear diff while they have it tomorrow. If the gearbox was under-filled, then it stands to reason that the rear diff might have been neglected as well.
The jet engine spin-down sound while decelerating is still there, but it is also quieter than it was on the first ride. I am attributing that noise to the gearbox and/or driveshaft arrangement more than to the CVT itself (I could be mistaken). CVT's typically don't make much noise at all unless it's belt noise (e.g. belt slap due to rapid throttle or ratio changes, or squeaking/groaning when wet/dirty/loose). I have owned 20+ scooters over the years (still have 5 right now), and they don't have the gear whine that the Ryker has... hence my assumption that it's gear noise rather than the CVT. I have a Honda SilverWing 600 scooter with 30K+ miles and it belt slaps like crazy when the pulleys are dirty or the belt is getting old.
It would be a good idea to have the dealership inspect the oil level in the final drive gearbox. I have attached the IPD of the final drive system. The inspection/fill plug is hidden behind the rear tire/wheel assembly and is labeled #50a. To check or change the oil the rear wheel must be removed using the lovely special BRP socket and 225 ft/lbs of torque. I will bet that this gearbox is not being inspected during pre-delivery prep inspections of Rykers.
It would be smart to be present during the removal of this inspection plug and witness the oil level in person. A video recording would be helpful too. I would also like to suggest you dump out the current oil in you gearbox and install fresh oil. Take a look at the amount of swarth in the oil.
Would you please ask the dealership if your Ryker needs to be attached to a BUDS computers connection to properly align a Ryker?
I'm sure you aware that Spyders are very sensitive to alignment issues. If the tires and alignment are not carefully chosen and setup the bike will wander. You don't have a choice on tires selection at this point in time, but historically the factory Kenda brand of tires has been very sensitive to alignment issues. Currently only the Kenda brand of tires are factory installed on Rykers.
I wish you luck.
Thanks for the wishes and for the diagram! In lieu of a service manual (not yet available), any and all tech diagrams are welcomed. I definitely plan to dump the gearbox and refill with a single grade of oil. I live in a hot climate, so I'll opt for the 75W-140 variety for the higher film strength. If the dealer does this as part of the re-check (ahem... their first check), then I want to see the magnetic drain plug to see if we have any shiny, chunky bits to worry about.
I don't know how the dealer will feel about me being in the service area, especially with a camera... we'll see. They already know that I busted them on the gearbox issue. I mentioned that I have video-chronicled the situation for other Ryker owners due to the Operator's Manual issue, and their whole attitude changed. They did a quick 180 and asked me to bring it in right away, and said that they would bump it to the front of the Can-Am service queue to sort it out. Hmmm... 30 minutes prior, they said they wouldn't have time to look at it until Tuesday or Wednesday of next week.
That's a good tech question on the alignment computer (not familiar with the 'BUDS' acronym)... so I will certainly pose the question and let everyone know the results. I have ridden several F3's and RT's that tracked straight and true, so this one was a (not-so-pleasant) surprise when I got it out on the road. Of course, the Sypders have power (or power-assist) steering, where the Ryker is manual... so there will be a marked difference in feel at the bars. Wheel hop over bumps on the freeway is interesting, that's for sure.
I made a second ride shakedown video after my Owner's PDI Redux adventure where I rode it a few miles away to air up the tires. The GoPro has image stabilization that masks some of the side-to-side sway, but it's still noticeable as my body position keeps shifting around relative to the centerline of the bike. A couple of hands-off coast downs show it drifting to the right. Braking also makes it pull unevenly... feels like the back end is trying to come around and say "Hello".
I have raced track cars, race karts, drag cars, etc and dealt with plenty of alignment issues over the years. However, this is my first personal experience with diagnosing alignment "feel" on a 3-wheel platform. I think there is too much toe-out and maybe some positive camber on the right side. Typically, negative camber makes it dig, positive makes it feel tipsy; a slight amount of toe-in helps straight-line tracking, but toe-out chases pavement grooves and darts in the direction of dips/depressions (similar to bump-steer). We'll see how that sorts out.
Did they perform an alignment? If so, does it drive sold at freeway speeds. Any word about the need of a BUDS connection to align the Ryder?
Edit:
Sorry, disregard, I miss read, it looks like your Ryker goes to the dealer tomorrow. It appear you rode it home etc. today.
Best of luck,
Hehe... I was typing previous reply when you posted this one. I haven't been riding it much because of the issues. Houston rush-hour traffic isn't the time or place to break in a new bike that wags its tail like a happy puppy... Awww, you're so cute, wanna play? ;-) So, I'm headed to my warehouse to pick it up early tomorrow morning and ride it back to the dealer. It'll be 15 miles of highway access roads and stop lights this time... not the white-knuckled, "WTF is going on with this thing?" fun I had last Friday during rush hour. I had it up on the freeway for a couple of miles and it was a REAL handful... especially in the grooved pavement sections of I-10 near Beltway-8 (anyone from Houston will know what I'm talking about). I'm sure plenty of drivers behind me were saying, "look at this A-hole weaving around...what a tool".
I'll update tomorrow or Tuesday (whenever I get it back) with the results.
BTW: @BajaRon , I feel bad for hijacking your thread. Maybe I should move this stuff to another topic or maybe the mods have a suggestion?
I don't have a Ryker so I'm basing this response on the 900 Ace with the CVT in the Ski-Doo sleds. When you let off the throttle and the engine drop to or below engagement RPM that whine (jet engine you mention) and rapid slow down is a function of the CVT. BRP calls it a feature. It's basically self braking and back shifting.
I don't have a Ryker so I'm basing this response on the 900 Ace with the CVT in the Ski-Doo sleds. When you let off the throttle and the engine drop to or below engagement RPM that whine (jet engine you mention) and rapid slow down is a function of the CVT. BRP calls it a feature. It's basically self braking and back shifting.
Excellent observation, thx for the info! I have never owned a sled or anything with a BRP/Rotax CVT powertrain. The gear whine that I hear from my Ryker seems to be congruent to rear wheel speed and ceases when coming to a full stop (almost a cogging sound below 5 mph). That could be due to the CVT speed and engine RPM relationship like you mention. The Ryker has a significant amount of engine braking, so there isn't any "free-wheeling" or drive decoupling until you're nearly stopped. The noise is not intrusive or annoying... more curious than anything else. I guess time (and inquiring ears) will eventually reveal our answers.
BTW: @BajaRon , I feel bad for hijacking your thread. Maybe I should move this stuff to another topic or maybe the mods have a suggestion?
--
QM
Unless BajaRon thinks otherwise, I reckon that so far this thread has seen a fairly reasonable & acceptable flow-on from the initial discussion about the low oil issues some Rykers may experience.... So my thoughts are to leave things as they are for now; at least until I hear differently from Ron or Lamont/Admin!
BTW: @BajaRon , I feel bad for hijacking your thread. Maybe I should move this stuff to another topic or maybe the mods have a suggestion?
QM
Originally Posted by Peter Aawen
Unless BajaRon thinks otherwise, I reckon that so far this thread has seen a fairly reasonable & acceptable flow-on from the initial discussion about the low oil issues some Rykers may experience.... So my thoughts are to leave things as they are for now; at least until I hear differently from Ron or Lamont/Admin!
I agree Peter. It's not really my thread. It is our thread. Though it started out as 1 specific Ryker issue. Any real or perceived 'Issue' is still on subject, as far as I am concerned. Why not have them all in one place rather than scattered into several threads.
Originally Posted by Tslepebull
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