Bikers and the Iron Cross

[Rogue Hawk]

I wonder how and why bikers adopted the Iron Cross as a symbol and what it means to them.

[ofdave]

an internet search will get you a whole bunch of info on that

here's a brief history without much of a biker connection
http://www.choppers.com/iron_cross.asp

here's more info
https://www.thecheapplace.com/posts/...e-biker-cross#!

[johnsimion]

The latter source says the Iron Cross "has connotations of honor, strength, loyalty, and valor." Great rationalization. I wonder how the same people rationalize wearing helmets shaped like Nazi soldiers' helmets. Did Nazi helmets also have connotations of honor, strength, loyalty, and valor? Let's be truthful here, I'm not saying these people are Nazis or even Nazi sympathizers, they probably haven't put that much thought into it. Probably in some sort of warped way they think they look "cool." But enough BS justifying it because it shows "honor, strength, loyalty, and valor." Sheesh.

[Rogue Hawk]

The latter source says the Iron Cross "has connotations of honor, strength, loyalty, and valor." Great rationalization. I wonder how the same people rationalize wearing helmets shaped like Nazi soldiers' helmets. Did Nazi helmets also have connotations of honor, strength, loyalty, and valor? Let's be truthful here, I'm not saying these people are Nazis or even Nazi sympathizers, they probably haven't put that much thought into it. Probably in some sort of warped way they think they look "cool." But enough BS justifying it because it shows "honor, strength, loyalty, and valor." Sheesh.

The Iron Cross is not a Nazi symbol.

an internet search will get you a whole bunch of info on that

here's a brief history without much of a biker connection
http://www.choppers.com/iron_cross.asp

here's more info
https://www.thecheapplace.com/posts/...e-biker-cross#!

Since there are some HD and former HD riders here, I was looking for a personal perspective.

[JerryB]

Hi Rogue Hawk,

Re: The Iron Cross is not a Nazi symbol.

However, it became one; from Google:

The Iron Cross is a famous German military medal dating back to the 19th century. During the 1930s, the Nazi regime in Germany superimposed a swastika on the traditional medal, turning it into a Nazi symbol.



Jerry Baumchen

[johnsimion]

Hi Rogue Hawk,

Re: The Iron Cross is not a Nazi symbol.

However, it became one; from Google:

The Iron Cross is a famous German military medal dating back to the 19th century. During the 1930s, the Nazi regime in Germany superimposed a swastika on the traditional medal, turning it into a Nazi symbol.



Jerry Baumchen

Not only that - but Hitler's use of the Iron Cross was the LAST use of the Iron Cross and therefore the one most associated with it, it has never been issued since the end of the Nazi regime, and no one alive today remembers the use of the Iron Cross BEFORE Hitler. It is therefore most properly remembered as a Nazi symbol.

Heck, the swastika wasn't originally a Nazi symbol, either. It dates back 5000 years and is commonly seen on Mesopotamian coins. Maybe these bikers should also put swastikas on their bikes. It's the same argument ... I mean heck, everyone would simply associate their swastikas with the legendary honor, strength, loyalty, and valor of ancient Mesopotamia.

[ofdave]

similar symbols to the Iron Cross are used in Germany today, on military aircraft and military awards
Militärflugplatz_Laupheim_12.jpgBWEhrenkreuzGold.jpg

[Rogue Hawk]

similar symbols to the Iron Cross are used in Germany today, on military aircraft and military awards
Militärflugplatz_Laupheim_12.jpgBWEhrenkreuzGold.jpg

That is interesting. The Iron Cross was also on WWI planes.




The Iron Cross was inscripted approximately when it was issued.

So in WW1, it looked like this. Notice there is no Swastika. A vast majority of Iron Crosses issued through history where without a Swastika.



This is from the 1800's

[ARtraveler]

with JerryB, JohnS, and ofdave.

[Lew L]

This is the iron cross I know and love. Its the only tattoo I have cause I could do it ( and others ) in college. ( a century ago )

[DerSpyGuy]

I have an Iron Cross decal on the Frunk of my F3-L. After all, I dubbed mine the "Red Baron".

IMG_3229.jpg

[Rogue Hawk]

I have an Iron Cross decal on the Frunk of my F3-L. After all, I dubbed mine the "Red Baron".

IMG_3229.jpg

That is pretty cool. I see the Iron Cross as a symbol of power and courage. Since I know the history, I don't associate it with Nazis. It is unfortunate most people do. I looked up awards of the modern German Army. The Iron Cross is not a current award. It's only commissioned during time of war. But it is authorized to wear if someone earned it earlier. Of course, anyone who was awarded it is no longer in active service. So you would likely only see it on veterans.

[PrairieSpyder]

I don't think the iron cross is a nazi symbol. That would be the swastika. Until after WWI it was a high military honor in Germany. That it is associated with nazi Germany is because that's the last time Germany was at war, and those of us alive today are somewhat informed by that era. If we weren't alive then, our popular culture and our parents or grandparents references. If it's true that "most" people associate it with nazi Germany, then it's because "most" people are ignorant of history or assume that if they haven't hear about it already or if it happened before they were born, then it doesn't matter.

[Bob Denman]

Why do dome folks get their shorts in a knot over something designed back TWO centuries ago?
While you're at it: you might as well bring up the origins of the Swastika, and try to tie those folks in with the "Thousand-Year Reich"...
(Which only made it to about 12 or 13 years anyway! )
This is how folks like to pick fights...

[johnsimion]

I don't think the iron cross is a nazi symbol. That would be the swastika. Until after WWI it was a high military honor in Germany. That it is associated with nazi Germany is because that's the last time Germany was at war, and those of us alive today are somewhat informed by that era. If we weren't alive then, our popular culture and our parents or grandparents references. If it's true that "most" people associate it with nazi Germany, then it's because "most" people are ignorant of history or assume that if they haven't hear about it already or if it happened before they were born, then it doesn't matter.

The swastika is a symbol that first appeared at 500 BC and was widely used in ancient Mesopotamia, so why not put it all over our stuff? With such a long history, I guess you'd agree that it would be really ignorant to associate it with Nazis? And as for the Iron Cross -- even if it's not a Nazi symbol, it WAS used as the symbol of the enemy in both WWI and WWII. So yeah, it makes a lot of sense to display the Iron Cross to represent honor, strength, loyalty and valor rather than something meaningless -- you know, like a Silver Star or a Medal of Honor.

[ARtraveler]

There is a big difference between the Iron Cross configuration and the Swastika.

Both have been known to signify the Germans (Nazis).

From what I am reading here, the Iron Cross is a medal for valor. The swastika became the symbol for a regime.

It would seem that biker gangs who want to symbolize "tough and bad" tend to use either/or for a symbol. They are in error on one of the two.