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  1. #1
    Very Active Member JerryB's Avatar
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    Default Local m/c rider killed

    Hi folks,

    As I headed out for my morning coffee & newspaper, the road was closed & traffic was being diverted.

    The intersection of Murray Blvd & Hart Road is one that I go thru 3-6 times every day. My house sits adjacent to Hart Road 3/4 of a mile west of this intersection.

    https://www.koin.com/news/crashes/mo...ton/1640736434

    Jerry Baumchen
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    The picture only shows the perspective of the major front end damage to and the large debis field left by the M/C. It (intentionally) didn't show the details of the intersection or the car involved. The details of the accident "are left to the investigation". Too many unanswered questions. Hope there's a follow up post giving more complete details.
    Mike
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    Very Active Member JayBros's Avatar
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    According to Google Maps and the news article it appears the motor vehicle made a left turn into the path of the motorcycle. There is a left turn lane to SW Hart Rd on northbound Murray Blvd; ergo, the continued investigation about who had the right of way. Who ran a light?
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    Very Active Member jaherbst's Avatar
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    Yet another Left turn by automobile into the path of an oncoming M/C. Happens quite often.

    Jack
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  5. #5
    Very Active Member JerryB's Avatar
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    Hi JayBros,

    Re: There is a left turn lane to SW Hart Rd on northbound Murray Blvd; ergo, the continued investigation about who had the right of way. Who ran a light?

    As I mentioned, I use this intersection numerous times a day. I know it well; in fact, I have been involved with both the county & the city on the light controls for this intersection.

    IMO ( speculation only at this point ), the northbound car, in a left-turn lane, had a blinking yellow arrow. This means that he can go but must yield to all other traffic; or wait for the green left-turn arrow.

    My money says that the left-turning car turned left in front of the m/c rider while seeing the blinking yellow arrow. The south-bound m/c rider would not have had a chance as the car would have 'instantly' been directly in front of him.

    We use these left-turn blinking yellow arrows a lot in the city of Beaverton. I use them a lot myself. But one must understand when to go & when to yield.

    When I am returning to my home & going south-bound & wanting to turn right/west-bound, I use the right-hand turn lane. More than once I have been nearly hit by a north-bound car turning left/west-bound using the yellow blinking arrow. So far, I have always been in my car when this has happened.

    While I, personally, like the left-turn yellow blinking lights, I have concluded that they are dangerous for the north-bound traffic at this intersection. I'll get my $0.02 to the city & county on this.

    Jerry Baumchen

    PS) In all fairness, many times I have noticed m/c riders going way, way over the speed limit on Murray Blvd. I've done it a fair amount myself. However, I am very careful as to where I push the speed limits & how much.
    Last edited by JerryB; 12-05-2018 at 06:20 PM.
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  6. #6
    Active Member tibadoe's Avatar
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    Sad to hear of these kinds of accidents. There has been a couple here in my area as well. Not the kind of news you like to hear.
    ----
    Joe

  7. #7
    Active Member wd8ajj's Avatar
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    Here in Western Texas we have had more than we would like. So far most have been the rider tring to outrun the cops and loosing control and crashing or DUI's. Unfortunately a lot have been from our local military base here in town. OH ya, seems to be a mix from crotch rockets to Harley's.

  8. #8
    GOS member (Girls On Spyders) Spyder_Cowgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaherbst View Post

    Yet another Left turn by automobile into the path of an oncoming M/C. Happens quite often.

    Jack
    Yep … kept me out of the wind for nearly 20 years. She turned left, I had no time to react and hit dead center head on …. my custom built BMW K75 LT was totaled and I walked away. That was 1993 and I didn't ride again until I bought a Spyder in 2012.

    Prayers for the family of this poor soul that was lost today …. All the best ….. Ann
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  9. #9
    Very Active Member Saluda's Avatar
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    Very sad to hear as always.
    ​Never stop questioning

  10. #10
    Velvet Hammer akspyderman's Avatar
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    Thoughts and prayers for the family of those involved in the tragedy.

    Currently Owned: 2011 RT A&C SE5 (magnesium), 2014 RTS-SE6 (yellow), 2015 Vulcan 900 LTD

    Previously : 2008 GS-SM5 (silver), 2009 RS-SE5 (red), 2010 RT-S Premier Editon #474 (black) Pictures of 2008 and 2009 Spyders are in Alaska Albums 2009 and 2010.
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  11. #11
    Very Active Member JayBros's Avatar
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    Yes, Jerry, we have a lot of those blinking yellow lights around here. They require 100% concentration on the part of all drivers all the time. Sadly...
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    otherwise be a vulgar brawl.
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    Very Active Member Bob Denman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akspyderman View Post
    Thoughts and prayers for the family of those involved in the tragedy.

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    The right-of-way situation is no different between a blinking yellow arrow and a completely dark arrow: the left-turning vehicle must yield. Perhaps the innovation of the blinking yellow has confused more people than it has helped? Why create a new signal, plus all those new signs above them to describe the meaning, when a yielding left-turn option already existed without the new signal?

    If this new flashing signal gives people the wrong impression about right-of-way, it seems to be a fatal mistake!
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  14. #14
    Very Active Member JerryB's Avatar
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    Hi missouriboy,

    Re: Why create a new signal, plus all those new signs above them to describe the meaning, when a yielding left-turn option already existed without the new signal?

    Prior to the blinking yellow arrow, the only left turn option was a full-time green arrow. The blinking left-turn arrows are IMO an improvement to moving traffic efficiently if, and a big IF, people understand the right-of-way req'ments and comply with them.

    All the car driver would have had to do was wait until the m/c rider passed by & then make his/her left-turn.

    Jerry Baumchen
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    Perhaps I misunderstand the law. I've been doing yielding left-turns on green all my life, unless there is a RED arrow. If the arrow is UNLIT it means the same as flashing yellow. At least, that's what I always thought...
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    Very Active Member Wildrice's Avatar
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    What classifies " the misuse of a Helmet" ??? That bike took a real hard hit above 40 mph. I don't know how you could wear & misuse a helmet unless the chin strap wasn't buckled but the internal body organs can only handle so much before failure to function occurs.
    Darrell
    Last edited by Wildrice; 12-07-2018 at 11:23 PM.

  17. #17
    Very Active Member Wildrice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyder_Cowgirl View Post
    Yep … kept me out of the wind for nearly 20 years. She turned left, I had no time to react and hit dead center head on …. my custom built BMW K75 LT was totaled and I walked away. That was 1993 and I didn't ride again until I bought a Spyder in 2012.

    Prayers for the family of this poor soul that was lost today …. All the best ….. Ann
    A sense of fear sets in everytime I see an oncoming vehicle slowing down preparing to make a left turn in front of my riding :-(
    Darrell

  18. #18
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by missouriboy View Post
    Perhaps I misunderstand the law. I've been doing yielding left-turns on green all my life, unless there is a RED arrow. If the arrow is UNLIT it means the same as flashing yellow. At least, that's what I always thought...
    If you're referring to a left through lane with a left turn signal then I would say you're correct.

    If I saw an unlit left turn arrow in a left turn only lane I would think it's not working. As far as left turn only lanes all the left turn arrows I've seen were red, meaning of course stop, green, meaning you are clear to go, blinking yellow, meaning left turn OK if there is no on coming traffic - they have the right of way, and solid yellow, meaning the light is getting ready to turn red. I've never seen a functioning one with an off cycle.

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    I just checked one of our intersections with a left-turn arrow, and it's unlit (never red) when not green or yellow, but there's a sign above the "thru" light that says "Left Turn Yield on Green" with a big green dot beneath the letters. The "thru" lights are of course red when the arrow is green (normally... sometimes not, when the opposing left-turn lane is empty.)

    Different strokes for different States? I dunno...
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  20. #20
    Very Active Member Bob Denman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildrice View Post
    A sense of fear sets in everytime I see an oncoming vehicle slowing down preparing to make a left turn in front of my riding :-(
    Darrell
    Whenever I encountered that: I'd flip my lights to high beam, and move laterally within my lane...
    (Trying to be more easily seen...)

  21. #21
    Very Active Member Wildrice's Avatar
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    Some drivers see the headlight flash as a signal for the other vehicle to proceed---picked up from truckers who flash their lights as a signal for the other vehicle to proceed to lane change--indicating there is adequate room. Kinda depends on the mindset of the driver in the on coming vehicle
    d
    Last edited by Wildrice; 12-16-2018 at 07:30 PM.

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    Very Active Member jaherbst's Avatar
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    Statistics show that most M/C accidents are caused by left turn vehicles. Most are fatal. I truly think that most people have a mindset to look for other vehicles and when there is a M/C right in front of them they subconsiously block it out and complete the turn. Something that we all have to deal with.

    My solution is always slow down at intersections and when you see a car that is about to pull out. i.e. Take care of yourself and don't depend on the other driver to not only see you but look out for you. I see day after day motorcycles of all kinds in these situations doing the speed limit or above fully depending on what the other person "is suppose to do".

    Wishing everyone a safe and joyous Holiday Season.

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  23. #23
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildrice View Post
    What classifies " the misuse of a Helmet" ??? That bike took a real hard hit above 40 mph. I don't know how you could wear & misuse a helmet unless the chin strap wasn't buckled but the internal body organs can only handle so much before failure to function occurs.
    Darrell
    Just speculation from being in the fire service many years and seeing my share of M/C accidents. My guess would be that his helmet came at initial impact (inertia) and was not on his head when he hit a solid object (car or pavement). This happens quite frequently even though the chin strap is fastened correctly when the helmet is too big for the head it is on.

    Arai has done a number of surveys over the years. And every time they do one they find that about 70% of non professional motorcycle riders are wearing a helmet at least 1 size (and many times 2 sizes) too large for them. There is no way to keep a helmet that is too big for your head in place when this kind of inertia is encountered.

    Most people just do not know how a correctly fitted helmet should be. And most do not want a properly fitted helmet even if they are given good fitment advise. They just will not tolerate a properly fitted M/C helmet. Those selling helmets may or may not know either. But their primary job is to sell a helmet. It is a very sad situation that seems extremely difficult to rectify.

    It is quite simple to know if your helmet fits properly.

    Here is a decent video on this subject. Not perfect but will give you a fair idea of what to look for. If you find your helmet is too big for your head. It is extremely wise to do something about it and get a properly fitted helmet to wear. It will do a lot more than just protect your head in an accident. A properly fitted helmet is just a joy to wear... Once you get used to it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjyrIIyTiNw
    Last edited by BajaRon; 12-16-2018 at 09:01 PM.
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  24. #24
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    It bears repeating. When a car driver says, "I just didn't see him," he or she may be 100% correct. Not seeing a motorcycle rider, or bicycle rider, or pedestrian, is not always a case of negligence. They may in fact have not seen the rider because of the way our eyes and brains work, i.e., it's a physiological function. Read this article for a good explanation of why it happens. It was written by an RAF fighter pilot.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/elegi6k9am...Final.pdf?dl=1

    Jack, contrary to your comment Idaho STAR found in a study of accidents from 2009-20013 that 67% of fatalities were caused by rider error. Here's a quote from this report, page 46. https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.do..._fy2017_ar.pdf

    Idaho had 61,000 registered motorcycles in 2014, this represents 4 percent of all registered vehicles in the state, yet motorcyclists represent 13.4 percent of fatalities in all motor vehicle crashes. Analysis of motorcycle crashes from 2009-2013 shows that 70 percent of riders killed in motorcycle crashes were over 40 years old, and 67 percent of fatalities were due to rider error.
    In 2014, 25 motorcyclists were killed in motor vehicle crashes, this was a slight decrease over the previous year. More than half of fatal motorcycle crashes (53 percent) involved just the motorcycle, while nearly one-third (32 percent) of fatal motorcycle crashes involved an impaired driver. Idaho does not have a universal motorcycle helmet law, only motorcyclists and passengers younger than 18 years of age are required to wear them, 58.4 percent of motorcyclists involved in the 510 reported motorcycle crashes in 2014 were wearing helmets. The fatality trend based on a 5-year average targets motorcycle fatalities (C-7) goal of 22 by 2015, preliminary estimates show that Idaho had 23 motorcycle fatalities. In addition, Idaho did not meet the fatality trend for un-helmeted motorcycle fatalities (C-8) which was 12; Idaho had 13 un-helmeted rider fatalities.
    What these statistics and articles confirm is, as has been said in above posts, it is incumbent upon riders to practice defensive riding.

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  25. #25
    Very Active Member jaherbst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder View Post
    It bears repeating. When a car driver says, "I just didn't see him," he or she may be 100% correct. Not seeing a motorcycle rider, or bicycle rider, or pedestrian, is not always a case of negligence. They may in fact have not seen the rider because of the way our eyes and brains work, i.e., it's a physiological function. Read this article for a good explanation of why it happens. It was written by an RAF fighter pilot.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/elegi6k9am...Final.pdf?dl=1

    Jack, contrary to your comment Idaho STAR found in a study of accidents from 2009-20013 that 67% of fatalities were caused by rider error. Here's a quote from this report, page 46. https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.do..._fy2017_ar.pdf



    What these statistics and articles confirm is, as has been said in above posts, it is incumbent upon riders to practice defensive riding.
    That would also cover going too fast through intersections and depending on the other person to look out for you. Thrill seekers have no business riding and if they do it is a short ride literally. We all ride year around here in Tucson and I wonder how so many survive riding the way they do. I certainly am not a M/C safety expert but at least I have survived 67 years of M/C riding (survival). I do agree that most accidents are caused by the rider not riding safely or defensively. We have about on the average 2-3 M/C deaths a week here in the greater Tucson area. Most are related to vehicle left turns while the M/C is speeding through the intersection. Phoenix has about the same. No Helmet state. Some of these Fatal Accidents would happen with or without a Helmet.

    I wonder what the statistics would be for states that were more populated and had a lot more traffic? I saw that in Idaho 67% of fatal motorcycle accidents did not involve another vehicle. Does not say a lot about the demeanor or behavior of the M/C riders, does it? Of course that would include Spyder Riders as well. We are all classified as Motorcycles.

    Jack
    Last edited by jaherbst; 12-17-2018 at 12:39 AM.
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