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  1. #26
    Very Active Member Highwayman2013's Avatar
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    I would think the RT is overdue for major updating so we will see.
    2016 F3 Limited
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    2016 F 3 Limited , Vegas White

  2. #27
    Very Active Member KX5062's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by widowmaker2011 View Post
    FWIW, ‘Most touring’ is a little bit of a stretch , Harley still commands the largest touring segment and is 100% belt. BMW is ‘still’ plagued with weird shaft drive issues on a system they deployed fully 24 years ago. Shaft is definitely something with plusses but belt drive will take us years into the future with proven reliability also.
    Nah, the BMW shaft drive issues are mostly a thing of the past and mostly limited to several models within a model range. The new BMW shaft drives, from 2014 on are very reliable. Their big problem was when they designed a "final drive" (the rear pumpkin) that was maintenance free for the life of the machine, which of course is absurd and caused a lot of bike to be recalled and fixed.
    2020 RTL SE6

    Previously 2008 GS SM5 and 2014 RT SE6






  3. #28
    Active Member LifeLongRider's Avatar
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    Since the Ryker was designed with a 900cc inline 3 cyl and CVT trans with the same wheel base as the current 1330 machines (67.3 inches), I would bet that it would all bolt right up to the 1330. The price reduction of $4K from 2018 to 2019 may be for inventory reduction - my money is on shaft drive for 2020.
    2019 F3 Limited , Oxford Blue

  4. #29
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeLongRider View Post
    Since the Ryker was designed with a 900cc inline 3 cyl and CVT trans with the same wheel base as the current 1330 machines (67.3 inches), I would bet that it would all bolt right up to the 1330. The price reduction of $4K from 2018 to 2019 may be for inventory reduction - my money is on shaft drive for 2020.
    Ehhh, no.

    The 1330 with its 6 speed transmission is an integral design with a transverse output shaft and crankshaft. Shaft drive would require a complete redesign of not only the bike itself but the 1330 power plant as well. As long as the RT is the best selling Spyder they have, its not likely they will do a ground up new design of a touring bike. As the F3 shares the same drive train, same is true there.

    I think you are much more likely to see a build out of the Ryker product line adding new models and more HP to the basic design. Think of the current Ryker as the F3S with T and L yet to come.....

    Blue Flame Spyder F3-S
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
    Ehhh, no.

    The 1330 with its 6 speed transmission is an integral design with a transverse output shaft and crankshaft. Shaft drive would require a complete redesign of not only the bike itself but the 1330 power plant as well. As long as the RT is the best selling Spyder they have, its not likely they will do a ground up new design of a touring bike. As the F3 shares the same drive train, same is true there.

    I think you are much more likely to see a build out of the Ryker product line adding new models and more HP to the basic design. Think of the current Ryker as the F3S with T and L yet to come.....
    Completely agree.....
    Dean O
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    Alamogordo, NM

    '20 Spyder F3 L

  6. #31
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    The #1 reason I'm "probably" not going to buy another Spyder is because of the belt vibration.
    The idler has reduced belt vibration but only to bearable levels.
    I tell people the F3 is NOT a smooth riding machine and always feel like I'm going much faster then my actual speed.

    Quote Originally Posted by LifeLongRider View Post
    The new Ryker 900cc is an inline 3 cylinder with CVT trans and shaft drive. I wonder if the shaft drive could be coming to the 1330 sometime in the future?

  7. #32
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Road-Kill View Post
    The #1 reason I'm "probably" not going to buy another Spyder is because of the belt vibration.
    The idler has reduced belt vibration but only to bearable levels.
    I tell people the F3 is NOT a smooth riding machine and always feel like I'm going much faster then my actual speed.
    You have something else going on than belt vibration. Or you are particularly sensitive to engine vibration. The F3 is a VERY smooth riding bike on the highway. Granted with a belt tensioner added but it completely solves the belt vibration issue.

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  8. #33
    Very Active Member AeroPilot's Avatar
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    Enjoyed lots of cruising across Kansas on the 76 Yamaha XS750 shaft drive triple. It never left me down except when I ran out of gas between Protection and Medicine Lodge Then had work and family take my time and money until the Honda 750 Shadow Aero Shaft drive provided many miles of trouble free cruisin. Enjoyed the Harley and BRP belt drives, but there is a lot to be said for a dependable sealed shaft ryde..

    The shaft drive might tempt me off the RT and cruising the back roads again . Bugs in the teeth just mean I'm still enjoying the ryde.NovR2.jpg
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    07 Shadows, Aero, Spirit gone but not forgotten
    03 Harley Sportster, 07 RK moved on
    11 RT- 76,000 mi, 15 RT-S- 44,000 mi, traded for current 15 base RT and 16 F3T
    2015 RT , OEM Black Gloss

  9. #34
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    "felt vibration" is too argumentative or opinionated to discuss.
    All I can say is that the vibration I do feel is comparable to my Suzuki Intruder 1400 (my worst vibrating bike) (My Harley "shook" but only while idling).
    I have test ridden many other F3s and the "felt Vibration" was the same.
    To me, the "felt vibration" is simply unacceptable so I would only consider another F3 if they cured this issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
    You have something else going on than belt vibration. Or you are particularly sensitive to engine vibration. The F3 is a VERY smooth riding bike on the highway. Granted with a belt tensioner added but it completely solves the belt vibration issue.

  10. #35
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
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    Sorry you are not happy on a Spyder. Truly hope you find a ride you are happy with.

    Blue Flame Spyder F3-S
    2015 F3S , Blue Flame

  11. #36
    Very Active Member JP58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Road-Kill View Post
    "felt vibration" is too argumentative or opinionated to discuss.
    All I can say is that the vibration I do feel is comparable to my Suzuki Intruder 1400 (my worst vibrating bike) (My Harley "shook" but only while idling).
    I have test ridden many other F3s and the "felt Vibration" was the same.
    To me, the "felt vibration" is simply unacceptable so I would only consider another F3 if they cured this issue.
    I agree with you. The belt tensioner makes it better but does not cure the problem. Mine only vibes above 70 mph. But comes and gos. Windy days make it worse because it creates a drag. Excel and decel at that speed will make it vibe to. Both my previous RT and current F3L will do it. I've had both brp and Doc's tensioners.
    2018 F3 Limited , Oxford Blue

  12. #37
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    I'm hoping the drive shaft comes to the F3 as I don't see a true fix for the long belt vibrating issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by JP58 View Post
    I agree with you. The belt tensioner makes it better but does not cure the problem. Mine only vibes above 70 mph. But comes and gos. Windy days make it worse because it creates a drag. Excel and decel at that speed will make it vibe to. Both my previous RT and current F3L will do it. I've had both brp and Doc's tensioners.

  13. #38
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    Hopefully the Spyder will not get shaft drive. While it is more reliable since there's no belt or chain to maintain and eventually replace, it is also more complicated. It is also inefficient, since the power flow has to change direction twice because of the gear sets needed. And, thanks to the clearance those gears require, there is more drive-line snatch engineered into shaft drive. A properly adjusted chain or belt will run smoother and have less slop. So, Can-Am, leave the belt on our beloved Spyder, please!
    2017 F3-S Daytona , Yellow and black

  14. #39
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    You cant be serious.
    You admit a shaft drive is more reliable then bash it for being complicated?
    I'm guessing if it works on other motorcycles, cars and tractors beautifully then it will work on a Spyder.
    If a belt can run smoother then why are we discussing a shaft drive or idlers or belt tensioners?
    If a belt runs smoother then why did BRP add a shaft drive to its new Ryker?

    Quote Originally Posted by TerryTheSpyderRyder View Post
    Hopefully the Spyder will not get shaft drive. While it is more reliable since there's no belt or chain to maintain and eventually replace, it is also more complicated. It is also inefficient, since the power flow has to change direction twice because of the gear sets needed. And, thanks to the clearance those gears require, there is more drive-line snatch engineered into shaft drive. A properly adjusted chain or belt will run smoother and have less slop. So, Can-Am, leave the belt on our beloved Spyder, please!

  15. #40
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    Having had shaft-driven, chain-driven and belt-driven bikes of various makes and models, I would very much like to see a shaft drive F3. I'd sell my 2017 F3T in a hot second to get one, if for nothing more than to go drifting on a dirt road without worrying what's going to get into the belt and make mischief...
    2017 F3T , Black, black and more black

  16. #41
    Very Active Member canamjhb's Avatar
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    If shaft drive reduces efficiency, why do those who live on the outer edge of performance use it.....? OTR drivers "live" efficiency. Race cars do the same. I don't see a lot of Smart Cars or those in search of higher mileage and efficiencies using any kind of belt or chain drive. What am I (and the automotive industry) missing......? I like my shaft drive Goldwings and would not trade their shaft drive for a belt or chain..... I tolerate my belt drive Spyder and would trade it for a shaft drive..... Jim
    2005 Windveil Blue Premium Mustang Convertible
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    Semper Fi


  17. #42
    Active Member LifeLongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canamjhb View Post
    I like my shaft drive Goldwings and would not trade their shaft drive for a belt or chain..... I tolerate my belt drive Spyder and would trade it for a shaft drive..... Jim
    That's exactly the predicament I find myself in. I've all but signed the deal to trade my 2015 Goldwing on a 2019 F3L but have become hesitant because of this issue. I'd hate to go with the 2019 and find out that the 2020 will have a CVT and shaft drive. The R&D has already been done as evidenced by the new Ryker 3 cylinder 900.
    2019 F3 Limited , Oxford Blue

  18. #43
    Very Active Member ARtraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeLongRider View Post
    That's exactly the predicament I find myself in. I've all but signed the deal to trade my 2015 Goldwing on a 2019 F3L but have become hesitant because of this issue. I'd hate to go with the 2019 and find out that the 2020 will have a CVT and shaft drive. The R&D has already been done as evidenced by the new Ryker 3 cylinder 900.
    Based on what everyone has said, I do not think you have to worry about the 20's F3's being revised that radically. Speculation is that RT may be on the chopping block and F3 will be standing alone for that type of Spyder.

    My RT's are long paid for, run good, and BRP has not tempted me with any new offerings of late. I am happy with the colors and the dashboards that I currently have.

    Currently Owned: 2019 F3 Limited, 2020 F3 Limited: SOLD BOTH LIMITEDS in October of 2023.

    Previously : 2008 GS-SM5 (silver), 2009 RS-SE5 (red), 2010 RT-S Premier Editon #474 (black) 2011 RT A&C SE5 (magnesium) 2014 RTS-SE6 (yellow)

    MY FINAL TALLY: 7 Spyders, 15 years, 205,500 miles

    IT HAS BEEN A LONG, WONDERFUL, AND FUN RIDE.
    2020 F3L , Magma Red

  19. #44
    Very Active Member canamjhb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeLongRider View Post
    That's exactly the predicament I find myself in. I've all but signed the deal to trade my 2015 Goldwing on a 2019 F3L but have become hesitant because of this issue. I'd hate to go with the 2019 and find out that the 2020 will have a CVT and shaft drive. The R&D has already been done as evidenced by the new Ryker 3 cylinder 900.
    I do understand your concern. Can't control or speculate about the unknown future. If you find what suits you, go for it. Make the best deal you can and don't look back...... just enjoy..... Jim
    2005 Windveil Blue Premium Mustang Convertible
    2008 Honda GL1800/California Sidecar Trike, SOLD
    2014 Platinum Silver Satin Spyder RTL, SOLD
    Semper Fi


  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge707 View Post
    THREE Great Reasons!!! The Ryker was built for shaft drive- BRP will Never Change the drive on current models and if they Don't start selling better The Ryker Line May be the Only line in the future?
    Scary / sad to think about that, but I agree 110% and then some!

  21. #46
    Active Member 007james's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAS POWER View Post
    Scary / sad to think about that, but I agree 110% and then some!
    I would really like to feel a smoother ride on my RT. I have tried all of the tricks, mentioned on these forums, and run Doc’s Belt Dampener, and new balenced tires, and have had Dealers adjust the Belt tension, which only moves the belt chatter to happen at different speeds. After logging about 85,000 miles beteen my 2012 and 2016 RTs, I have come to the conclusion that unless BRP changes the Belt designs, the chatter is never going completely away. And the chatter is a completely different “ feel” than the vibration felt from V-Twin unbalenced engines. Yes, Shaft drives do solve the chatter problem, but create new problems. But there has to be ways of Engineering an accepable Fix on belt chatter that has had Owners complaining about during the entire history of Spyder production and Sales. Personally, I will never buy another Belt Driven Spyder, unless the Chatter problem is gone. I will buy an extended Waurentee for my 2016 RT for as long as I can get it, and live with the chatter I already have, rather than buy the same old Chatter packaged in new Tupper Ware with a few new Tweaks. I have always wondered why BRP Engineers have not either gone to a Front Wheel Drive System, eliminating the belt, or, at the very least, shorteninig the Belt, by running two shorter belts, to reduce or eliminate belt chatter. This could be accomplished by adding a Pully, or Gear in the middle of the long belt, making the Drive two short belts, which would just about eliminate Belt Chatter, as the short belts on Harleys do not have belt chatter. But what do I know? ( only what I will buy, and it will never be another long belt chattering Spyder!)
    Last edited by 007james; 12-15-2018 at 11:15 AM.
    2016 RT Limited , Black & Lava Bronze

  22. #47
    Active Member LifeLongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 007james View Post
    "I have come to the conclusion that unless BRP changes the Belt designs, the chatter is never going completely away" "Owners complaining about during the entire history of Spyder production and Sales. Personally, I will never buy another Belt Driven Spyder" "new Tubber Ware with a few new Tweaks" "what do I know? ( only what I will buy, and it will never be another long belt chattering Spyder!)"
    Not exactly what I'd call "Words of Encouragement" for someone that's ready to pull the trigger on a new 2019. At 72 years old my 2015 Wing has just become too much for me to handle. Post like this really have me thinking whether I'd be doing the right thing.
    Last edited by LifeLongRider; 12-15-2018 at 08:10 AM.
    2019 F3 Limited , Oxford Blue

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeLongRider View Post
    Not exactly what I'd call "Words of Encouragement" for someone that's ready to pull the trigger on a new 2019. At 72 years old my 2015 Wing has just become too much for me to handle. Post like this really have me thinking whether I'd be doing the right thing.
    Maybe its my age bracket (42), but I really don't understand why people complain about, all this chatter, vibrations, and what not. I have a RS-S with the V twin which vibrates / chatters a lot more than the 1330. To me I expect some vibrations and such as I am not driving in a enclosed cockpit Buick. My RS-S has some pretty smooth vibration free areas in the power band. I don't run any after market vibration tensioners, and I still say its not as big of a deal as some may make it seem. I do think though as people tend to get older they have the tendency to complain more about stuff (Crotchety old man syndrome).

    Don't let people scare you away complaining about the negatives of the Spyder as most people tend to concentrate on things that are irritating letting the GREAT parts of the Spyder slip through their lives! Go follow your heart and purchase one, it for sure will give you a grin from ear to ear and keep you from having to drive inside a cockpit!!! Life is short go and enjoy what time we get to have on this glorious planet called earth.

  24. #49
    Active Member 007james's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeLongRider View Post
    Not exactly what I'd call "Words of Encouragement" for someone that's ready to pull the trigger on a new 2019. At 72 years old my 2015 Wing has just become too much for me to handle. Post like this really have me thinking whether I'd be doing the right thing.
    Age is only a condition of mind. If you don’t mind, it doesn’t matter. I will be 77 in another month, and my aches & pains are only a condition of Mind, but not really mine. HaHa. My 2016 RT was tied up for 2-1/2 months this Summer while they floundered around replacing the failed Front Pulley Sprocket that seems to be happening on a lot of them, around the 20,000 mile mark, mine included. It was in June, and since I could not get any firm answers from the Dealer on how long it might take to diagnose and repair my Spyder, I decided to buy a back up Toy to get me thru the Summer. I took a Sling Shot out for a Demo ride at the Dealer, and actually liked it, and thought it would be fun to own. But looking at all the exposed Gizmos, brackets, wiring, and the same rear tire that wears out on Spyders in less than 10,000 miles, I figured 6-8,000 miles at best, expectation on the Sling Shot, and I’d have to be back to the same Dealer that is always 4-6 weeks out to even book an appointment to get an oil change, let alone a tire change! So, I bought a used 2009 Harley Heritage, and put 3000 miles on it, while waiting to get my Spyder back. I then had my same Spyder Dealer put two new tires on my Harley, which they did, after waiting a month to get it done, but then, my Harley also quit on me, loosing all of its Electrical leaving me stuck on the Parkway. When the AAA Tow Truck finally arrived 3 hours later, I had them bring my Harley to my Spyder Dealer, because after them just recently installing the two new tires on it, and me having no other relationships with Dealers in the immediate area, I had the Harley left there. Not a wise decision on my part. They had my Harley for 2 months, so I missed all of the Peak Autom riding during the Foilage Season, while they first said my Battery only needed charging, then a week later, no, the battery wouldn’t hold a charge, and needed Battery. I OKed a new Battery, then a week later was told I needed new Regulater, and they could order an after Market one. I OKed that, and waited another 2 weeks, then was told the Regulater they ordered would not fit, but Harley had one in stock, and they could pick it up the same day,....for more money? I OKed that, and another week went by with no word from the Dealer. My Spyder’s rear tire was now worn to the Cord, so I called my Spyder Dealer on a Sat. Morning to try to book an appt. for the tire change. They said they could only take it 3 weeks out! So, now, they still had my Harley, unrepaired, and left me with my Spyder unsafe to ride with a bad tire. So I called another Spyder Dealer 50 miles away who took me right in that Monday and installed my new tire and new Brake Pads, front and rear! ( guess where I will be bringing my Spyder to for ALL future maintence, and where I will be upgrading to a new one, if BRP ever comes up with a fix on Belt Chatter? Fast forward to a week later, when I get a call from my Dealer that has my Harley to come get it, as they have given up on it! They said it now needed a Stator, and they did not have the expertise or Tools to install it! Imagine a huge Dealer that sells Spyders, ATVs, Polarises, Sling Shots, Hondas, Kawasakis, Victorys, and many pre owned Bikes, not able to install a Stator on a 2009 Harley? Worse, I was leaving to go out of State for a week, and they refused to arrange to have my Harley repaired at the Harley Dealer. They told me I owed $400+ for the Battery, Regulater and Diagnosis, and to pay them and come get it! Real fantastic Customer Service, for such a large Dealer thinking Word of Mouth only applies to generate future Business. Any way, I paid the Dealer over the phone with my Credit Card and told them to release my Harley to Harley, whom I called to have them go retrieve it with their Truck and Trailer. What an absolute pleasure and relief to be treated with respect by the Harley Dealer who quickly responded to all of my needs, picked it up, installed the Stator, and changed my Oils and Filter, and repaired an Exhaust Leak they discovered, where a bolt was broken and had to be drilled out. The Harley Dealer in Roanoke Virginia was an absolute pleasure to deal with, after haven experienced several years of absolulte abuse and by the local Spyder Dealer. I was tempted to file a complaint to our local Better Business Beaureau, but decided life is too short,...for me, so I will take my Harley to the Harley Dealer, and my Spyder to my other Spyder Dealer, 50 miles away, who have always treated me with respect and serviced my 2012 I bought from them for 5 years in a timely fashion. SERVICE is the most important ingredient of any Vehicle we decide to buy. I love my Harley,....and can tolerate my Chattering Spyder, .....when it is in my garage , and not sitting at some Dealer waiting for Waurentee repairs. I intend to purchase my Extended Waurentee Spyder Policy from my Dealer 50 miles away, and will avoid my local Dealer that is only 5 miles away that has treated me like dirt for years like a Plague! It amazes me, how they retain any Business at all, after some one who bought a new Vehicle from them finds out they have to wait 4-6 weeks to get their first Service done on their new Vehicle! There is a real bad management problem with that Dealer, I would say. So, Sir, I advise you to keep your GW, as a Back up, as long as you can hold it up, because if you buy a Spyder, you will surely NEED a back up,...if you want to be sure to have a Vehicle to ride in peak riding Seasons at all times.
    Last edited by 007james; 12-15-2018 at 11:12 AM.
    2016 RT Limited , Black & Lava Bronze

  25. #50
    Active Member 007james's Avatar
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    Jas, My 2009 V-Twin 1600 CC Belt driven Harley doesn’t vibrate or chatter, any where nearly as bad as either my 2012 and 2016 RTs have. Vibration & Chatter are two different feelings. Spyders chatter, and V-Twins with unbalanced engines Vibrate, but don’t chatter. If you search all the treads here on Belt alighnment, chatter and vibration, you will discover Chatter is not an AGE issue. My 77 year old Butt feels the same as my 42 year Butt felt, and I know by a lot of experience what the difference between Chatter and Vibration feels like. I owned 1973 Harley Sportster XLCH 1000 CC with solid lifters and unbalanced engine. It never chattered like my Spyders, but it vibrated. My Spyders both chatter starting at about 68 MPH thru 75 MPH, with the belt adjusted to Dealer Specs. If the tension is tightened, the chatter can be moved to occurr up or down, but it rarely is ever completely eliminated, and when it occurrs in those MPH ranges, the mirrors and handlebar shake, not vibrate. It acts like the tires are out of balence, but balencing still won’t eliminate the Chatter. Belt Dampenets are more of a Placeebo, IMO, than Chatter eliminaters. I had a BRP Skidoo Snow Sled that always had Belt Chatter, and I never could get rid of it, until I traded the Skidoo in for an Artic Cat.
    Last edited by 007james; 12-15-2018 at 01:15 PM.
    2016 RT Limited , Black & Lava Bronze

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