F-3 front sprocket failure

[IGETAROUND]

Has this ceased to be an issue on the 2017's??? Shout out to Ann Meyer; has this been any issue for you??

Al in Kazoo

[ofdave]

there is an ongoing thread on this in the F3 section which is specific to the F3, rather than this section
look here:
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...rocket-Failure

[SpyderAnn01]

I have had the dreaded Red Dust for 8,000 miles with no issue so far. I am carrying a sprocket and bolt in the trailer just in case. My dealer said that BRP was no longer replacing them just because of the red dust, they have to fail first.

My Spyder is a manual and I understand they have had very few failures on them.

[jcthorne]

I have had the dreaded Red Dust for 8,000 miles with no issue so far. I am carrying a sprocket and bolt in the trailer just in case. My dealer said that BRP was no longer replacing them just because of the red dust, they have to fail first.

My Spyder is a manual and I understand they have had very few failures on them.

Your dealer just does not want to mess with it. Its not true.

If it has a coating of red dust, the splines are significantly worn, just pull the bolt and look. That is where the material that rusts and creates the red dust (iron oxide) is coming from. By the time its visible, the wear on the splines will be plainly visible when inspected. The red dust is not the diagnosis, just the tell tale that says you need to look further. If the splines are that warn, its a ticking time bomb and WILL fail. At the least opportune moment.

[IGETAROUND]

From Ann
I have had the dreaded Red Dust for 8,000 miles with no issue so far. I am carrying a sprocket and bolt in the trailer just in case.

JCThorne

Your dealer just does not want to mess with it. Its not true.

If it has a coating of red dust, the splines are significantly worn, just pull the bolt and look. That is where the material that rusts and creates the red dust (iron oxide) is coming from. By the time its visible, the wear on the splines will be plainly visible when inspected. The red dust is not the diagnosis, just the tell tale that says you need to look further. If the splines are that warn, its a ticking time bomb and WILL fail. At the least opportune moment.

JC and Ann, thank you both for answering my question. Follow up question do either of you know if BRP is working on a "fix" for this???

Al in Kazoo

[Road-Kill]

Is BRP working on this problem?
The answer is NO.
Their "remedy" is to just install another front sprocket with Locktite 660.

From Ann
I have had the dreaded Red Dust for 8,000 miles with no issue so far. I am carrying a sprocket and bolt in the trailer just in case.

JCThorne

Your dealer just does not want to mess with it. Its not true.

If it has a coating of red dust, the splines are significantly worn, just pull the bolt and look. That is where the material that rusts and creates the red dust (iron oxide) is coming from. By the time its visible, the wear on the splines will be plainly visible when inspected. The red dust is not the diagnosis, just the tell tale that says you need to look further. If the splines are that warn, its a ticking time bomb and WILL fail. At the least opportune moment.

JC and Ann, thank you both for answering my question. Follow up question do either of you know if BRP is working on a "fix" for this???

Al in Kazoo

[jcthorne]

BRP believes the problem is solved with the correct install of a new sprocket and the specified Loctite compound.

[Road-Kill]

I'm hoping you are correct because that's exactly what BRP told my tech.
So in the meantime I need to keep putting the mileage on my bike to test it.
If this is the fix then I might consider an upgrade to an F3T....

BRP believes the problem is solved with the correct install of a new sprocket and the specified Loctite compound.

[SpyderAnn01]

BRP would be forced to address the issue if everyone that has a failure reports it to www.nhtsa.gov

[SpyderAnn01]

Your dealer just does not want to mess with it. Its not true.

If it has a coating of red dust, the splines are significantly worn, just pull the bolt and look. That is where the material that rusts and creates the red dust (iron oxide) is coming from. By the time its visible, the wear on the splines will be plainly visible when inspected. The red dust is not the diagnosis, just the tell tale that says you need to look further. If the splines are that warn, its a ticking time bomb and WILL fail. At the least opportune moment.

That may be how your rep is handling it but the rep for Las Vegas said that they woukd not make a repair unless it failed. I have no reason to believe that he did not say that.

[PMK]

That may be how your rep is handling it but the rep for Las Vegas said that they woukd not make a repair unless it failed. I have no reason to believe that he did not say that.

FWIW, save the gearbox shaft and get the pulley swapped out before complete failure of the pulley. Typically the gearbox shaft shows no wear, but iron oxide particles are very hard and will cause minor wear as it severly wears the pulley splines.

Glue that new pulley onto the shaft with the Loctite and move on.

Our 14 had no oxide dust, still removed the pulley, inspected for wear and reinstalled. That was on an RT and took me about an hour total.

[jcthorne]

That may be how your rep is handling it but the rep for Las Vegas said that they woukd not make a repair unless it failed. I have no reason to believe that he did not say that.

If your bike goes to the shop and the shop removes the bolt and finds the worn out of spec splines, its already failed. Even if the sprocket has not yet slipped on the shaft. As I said, its your dealer that does not want to handle the case and input the warranty claim with required photos to BRP. There has not been ONE documented case where BRP has actually denied the warranty claim if valid. They have even approved a few after the warranty expires.

I have seen them approved overnight as recently as last week. This is not a case of ask the local rep, its actually filing the case with BRP on BossWEB with required photos for documentation. Gets approved quickly. The local rep is not who approves the claim.

Perhaps you should go by Coyote Powersports there in Boerne before you leave, they might be more helpful than your dealer in LV. Heck, since you already bought the pulley and bolt, you are only talking about a half hour labor to install it even if you paid out of pocket. As much as you travel on that bike, I would not head out of town with the sprocket failing like that.

[Road-Kill]

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/
Going to file that ASAP. Thanks SpyderAnn01

BRP would be forced to address the issue if everyone that has a failure reports it to www.nhtsa.gov

[Firefly]

I decided to be proactive and pulled my pully at 800 miles and give it the loctite treatment... easy to do. Should be good to go for the long haul now.

[Sarge707]

FWIW, save the gearbox shaft and get the pulley swapped out before complete failure of the pulley. Typically the gearbox shaft shows no wear, but iron oxide particles are very hard and will cause minor wear as it severly wears the pulley splines.

Glue that new pulley onto the shaft with the Loctite and move on.

Our 14 had no oxide dust, still removed the pulley, inspected for wear and reinstalled. That was on an RT and took me about an hour total.

How do you guys pull off the pulley in a hour? Mine was Not bad at all when I took the bolt out but there was No Way I was getting it off to replace. It appears to be almost welded on there until , of course , it goes Bad and then comes off Real Easy on its own as most know! I would imagine you have to loosen the belt to get the pulley off and then tighten and re-align and re-tension test and All that stuff could take Way more than a Hour???

[PMK]

How do you guys pull off the pulley in a hour? Mine was Not bad at all when I took the bolt out but there was No Way I was getting it off to replace. It appears to be almost welded on there until , of course , it goes Bad and then comes off Real Easy on its own as most know! I would imagine you have to loosen the belt to get the pulley off and then tighten and re-align and re-tension test and All that stuff could take Way more than a Hour???

Remove body panel. Loosen pulley bolt. Jack Spyder so rear wheel is raised. Disconnect ride height sensor. Remove lower shock bolt. Slide belt off rear pulley, then off front.

My pulley slid off easily as it had no wear. The factory had lubricated the splines.

I accomplished cleaning of the splines and gearbox shaft.

Myself, I opted not to use the Loctite method and reassembled with lubricated splines.

Assembled the other items then torqued the pulley bolt to spec.

Granted, if the pulley were stuck on tne gearbox shaft it could take longer. But honestly, I had at most an hour into it.

[Sarge707]

Remove body panel. Loosen pulley bolt. Jack Spyder so rear wheel is raised. Disconnect ride height sensor. Remove lower shock bolt. Slide belt off rear pulley, then off front.

My pulley slid off easily as it had no wear. The factory had lubricated the splines.

I accomplished cleaning of the splines and gearbox shaft.

Myself, I opted not to use the Loctite method and reassembled with lubricated splines.

Assembled the other items then torqued the pulley bolt to spec.

Granted, if the pulley were stuck on tne gearbox shaft it could take longer. But honestly, I had at most an hour into it.

I know how to as I just changed my tire again BUT Most people cannot get a Pulley that has been on there for thousands of miles without heating it and being a Good mechanic- Especially if they had any red dust indicators.

[PMK]

I know how to as I just changed my tire again BUT Most people cannot get a Pulley that has been on there for thousands of miles without heating it and being a Good mechanic- Especially if they had any red dust indicators.

No need to remove the rear wheel.

There should be no need to heat the pulley. But whatever works for some I guess. As James explained, he was unable to get his pulley off, however the dealer used a common crow foot puller and was able to remove it.

Obviously, anyone outside their skill level, comfort level, or not having the proper tools should simply allow a qualified person to accomplish the task.

[Culpjp]

How hard the pulley is to remove, depends on the condition of the splines. On one with no damage the pulley will slide off easily. When it can get difficult is with damaged splines. They will start to twist and bind against the output shaft splines. Then the pulley can be difficult to get off. Once the splines get completely destroyed, then the pulley is pretty easy to remove also. Lol

[stebrock]

If your bike goes to the shop and the shop removes the bolt and finds the worn out of spec splines, its already failed. Even if the sprocket has not yet slipped on the shaft. As I said, its your dealer that does not want to handle the case and input the warranty claim with required photos to BRP. There has not been ONE documented case where BRP has actually denied the warranty claim if valid. They have even approved a few after the warranty expires.

I have seen them approved overnight as recently as last week. This is not a case of ask the local rep, its actually filing the case with BRP on BossWEB with required photos for documentation. Gets approved quickly. The local rep is not who approves the claim.

Perhaps you should go by Coyote Powersports there in Boerne before you leave, they might be more helpful than your dealer in LV. Heck, since you already bought the pulley and bolt, you are only talking about a half hour labor to install it even if you paid out of pocket. As much as you travel on that bike, I would not head out of town with the sprocket failing like that.

JC what is this "BossWEB" ?

[Firefly]

How do you guys pull off the pulley in a hour? Mine was Not bad at all when I took the bolt out but there was No Way I was getting it off to replace. It appears to be almost welded on there until , of course , it goes Bad and then comes off Real Easy on its own as most know! I would imagine you have to loosen the belt to get the pulley off and then tighten and re-align and re-tension test and All that stuff could take Way more than a Hour???

If you have spine issues and red dust then the pully certainly can be harder to remove. On my 2008 GS we had to cut the damn thing off with a torch. The puller we used just broke the collar on the pully.

Otherwise there's no need to remove rear tire or do any belt alignment.. it will stay how it was before the pully swap.

[jcthorne]

JC what is this "BossWEB" ?

Network system dealers use for communication with BRP. Includes bulletins, warranty claims, parts look ups etc.

[ofdave]

Network system dealers use for communication with BRP. Includes bulletins, warranty claims, parts look ups etc.

here

https://www.bossweb.brp.com/Legacy/S.../HelpIndex.htm

although it may not be what dealers use

[Road-Kill]

My tech told me they have the equivalent of Spyderlovers for dealers only.
Mechanics in almost all fields have their own as well.
Even my family doctor showed me their doctor only website and how they keep up on the latest medical procedures.
Its good BRP keeps their website locked down to dealers only.

here

https://www.bossweb.brp.com/Legacy/S.../HelpIndex.htm

although it may not be what dealers use