Spark Plug Change

[Gunner3773]

Looking toward my 28K service on my 2015 RT. I was wondering if anyone has changed spark plugs on a 1330 RT? Flat rate manual shows 1.5 hours for the spark plugs. I was thinking it was going to take quite a bit longer, but would like to get some idea of a realistic time.

Gunner

[Road-Kill]

I just did the 28,000 mile service including the spark plugs, engine coolant, filters etc.
With that said I cant tell you exactly what he would have charged if I only did the spark plugs.
The 28,000 has many items that need to be replaced so I would hand him a detailed list like I did so the rate goes down.
My thoughts.

[Sarge707]

I just did the 28,000 mile service including the spark plugs, engine coolant, filters etc.
With that said I cant tell you exactly what he would have charged if I only did the spark plugs.
The 28,000 has many items that need to be replaced so I would hand him a detailed list like I did so the rate goes down.
My thoughts.

I would wonder HOW many really get done?

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Looking toward my 28K service on my 2015 RT. I was wondering if anyone has changed spark plugs on a 1330 RT? Flat rate manual shows 1.5 hours for the spark plugs. I was thinking it was going to take quite a bit longer, but would like to get some idea of a realistic time.

Gunner

It ain't no 1.5 hour job! 1.5 days maybe, but not 1.5 hours.

Read about my spark plug change experience a couple of weeks ago here: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...angeout-Part-1. Maybe it'll help you!

[youngers]

It ain't no 1.5 hour job! 1.5 days maybe, but not 1.5 hours.

Read about my spark plug change experience a couple of weeks ago here: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...angeout-Part-1. Maybe it'll help you!

hahhahaha I just went through your post on the sparky change --- don`t scare the guy , it looked like it took only 20 minutes ( but seriously , go look at IdahoMtnSpyder , link , it looks like a ----- I guess adventure would be a good word for this ? one thing for sure you will know your cycle inside and out ! ) again Idaho , thanks for the photos of that work ...

[Gunner3773]

Thanks for the write up and pics. I can't understand why BRP wants the plugs changed at 28K. Iridium plugs and a fuel injected system should allow those plugs to go far longer than 28K.

How did the plugs look when you pulled them?

[Purple Guy]

If they're only going to charge you 1.5 hours I'd let them do it!
I've done a couple and it's a good 4 to 5 hour job...

[Chupaca]

Could that flat rate been for the V-Twin ... ?? from what I have seen from other posts it is quite a chore to even get to the plugs.... the twin's front cylinder was a bear but nothing like the triple....

[KX5062]

Thanks for the write up and pics. I can't understand why BRP wants the plugs changed at 28K. Iridium plugs and a fuel injected system should allow those plugs to go far longer than 28K.

How did the plugs look when you pulled them?

That's what I thought too, until it was my bike. I did the plug change at about 40k miles because I was almost there doing other things. When I pulled the plugs I immediately noticed they were well worn and in need of replacement. I think 28k is probably too soon, but 40k was too long. I'd say about 35k miles is about right. Once the new plugs were in the bike had a noticeable improvement in performance.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Could that flat rate been for the V-Twin ... ?? from what I have seen from other posts it is quite a chore to even get to the plugs.... the twin's front cylinder was a bear but nothing like the triple....

Nope, that's what the 2014 RT flat rate schedule shows. What's weird is the rate is 1.5 for "Ignition Coils (Each)" but the spark plug has no "Each" applied. So what it it really, 4.5 for all? It's confusing. The intro by the Green Manuals producer states the flat rates are what BRP pays for warranty work and are mostly unrealistic so dealers will charge more than the flat rate.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

How did the plugs look when you pulled them?

You can see for yourself in this pics. I'm no spark plug expert but they sure look to be great shape to me. The interesting thing is though, NGK specs show 0.031" for the gap from the factory. BRP spec is 0.028" to 0.031". I had to tug just a little bit to get a 0.035" gage wire through the gap. The 0.030" wire didn't come close to fitting the gap. The wire and tip both look to not be burned off. So the only thing I can conclude is either the gap was originally set close to 0.035", or the plug tips burn off incredibly smoothly. I made the gross mistake of not measuring the gap of the new plugs when I put them in so I can't confirm the factory setting is 0.031" or something different.

Spark plug 1.jpg Spark plug 2.jpg Spark plug 3.jpg Spark plug 4.jpg Spark plug 5.jpg

In the last photo you can see a little indentation in the ground electrode. I just looked at all three plugs with a magnifying glass and there is erosion of all three ground electrodes. It's a smooth pit so maybe the wire electrode does erode smoothly.

Could it be that we need to reluctantly admit there is good reason to change the plugs at 28,000 miles? A wide gap is not good. Here is what NGK has to say.

A spark plugs’ tip temperature and the voltage necessary to fire the plug are directly affected by the gap setting.

Most manufacturers set the gap from the factory for that plugs most popular application. Unfortunately, that plug may have hundreds of applications from automobiles to golf carts. Setting the gap for your particular engine is important as insufficient spark plug gap can cause pre-ignition, detonation and even engine damage.

Whereas too much gap can result in a higher rate of misfires, loss of power, plug fouling and poor fuel economy. Even if the preset gap is supposed to match your motor, it is always best to physically check that the gap is adjusted properly for your motor prior to installation.

Shall we argue about spark plugs now, too, along with tires and oil????????

[youngers]

Shall we argue about spark plugs now, too, along with tires and oil???????? ( noooooooo lets talk radio and intercom systems )

[Gunner3773]

I couldn't help myself today. I was ordering all the parts to do my 28K service and the spark plug question hit me again. I contacted the technical support line for NGK. I actually spoke with someone from this country! I explained what plug is in the 1330 Spyder and further explained that BRP's recommendation is to change out those plugs every 28K. The guy on the tech line was really surprised by the 28K interval and said that there was no way those plugs needed to be changed at 28K. Even if they were firing with a waste spark system, he said they still should go 40 or 50K. Short of the waste spark system, they should go longer. I asked if there was anything that could cause BRP to recommend 28K service with the plug wearing out not being the issue and he said no. After he had thought about it, he mentioned the only thing he was concerned about was the possibility of the plug seizing in the head for some reason. I told him that BRP uses thermal paste on their plugs and the tech responded that the seizing then should not be an issue.

With platinum welded to the ground electrode of the plug, I just don't see the plug wearing out in 28K. I am going to go to try to go to 45k unless I have drivability issues. But that is just me...

BTW, I am still trying to figure out why I am changing BRP Long Life Coolant at 28K on my 2015? Doesn't seem like long life to me. I could see the five years, but not 28K. I am going to change it out anyway, but makes me wonder if these short service intervals are created for the dealers?????

[Woodaddict]

...... The guy on the tech line was really surprised by the 28K interval and said that there was no way those plugs needed to be changed at 28K. .....

the specs from manufactures are always early intervals to prevent any liability / lawsuits

[Gunner3773]

Going to revive this old thread. I have to eat a little crow here. In my previous post, I mentioned that I was planning on waiting until 45k to change out my plugs. Well, today I changed them out at 38.6k. Curiosity was getting the better of me and I decided I would change them out. I have to say that the plugs were well worn at 38.6k and that the gap was well outside of BRP's spec. The gap on all the old plugs was .035". I replaced the factory NGK with BajaRon's Iridium IX plugs. I think I am going to shoot for 30k and see how the Iridium IX plugs are holding up. 38k on the factory plugs was way too long in my bike, in spite of what NGK said about going to 50k.

[Little Blue]

Well, sometimes the Spyder people get it right. I'm sure going to check mine out when the time comes.

Do you use premium gasoline?
Any other information you can provide would be appreciated. ......

[teninospyder]

At the risk of jinxing myself.... or being placed in a category of no-nothing owners, here is my current experience on our 2014 1330 RTL.
42000 miles just now and had latest "annual" oil change performed, had coolant changed (prompted by "very expensive - $2700 experience" last month with a 2012 car using "same type" coolant), and had the annual service checklist reviewed with only work item added was adjusting the drive belt. Brake pad wear status was noted to me also......and I did the rear myself yesterday (and after some really good words to myself , it was a good thing I did !!).
After this dealer service I have noticed for some reason it seems to start up and respond much better.....for no real reason I can pinpoint except the belt adjustment. The plugs have never been touched, and since last year we have always used regular gas and my recorded MPG after each fill up has been in the 40+ MPG range. Doesn't seem to matter which "national brand" we use (out here it's mostly Chevron or Shell). Being cautious with our riding times and routes during this covid thing, we have been able to do a couple hundred miles or more a week so far.
Again............Just my recorded experience.

[BajaRon]

I am no spark plug engineer. But I do know that trying to compare Motorcycle to Auto spark plug service intervals is not Apples to Apples. Typical car engines cruise at less than 2k RPM. Our Spyders are usually running at twice that RPM or more. Not to mention, we typically run our motorcycle engines much harder than a typical car.

Iridium is extremely hard (and brittle). Which means you need to be careful when gaping them. And that they wear much slower because of the Iridium.

If you do not use thermal paste, or, you use Anti-Seize on your spark plugs. They will wear out faster on your Spyder/Ryker because they will tend to run hotter than designed. Running your spark plugs too hot will also tend to reduce power and fuel mileage. As you can see below, the thread area of your spark plug is a major heat transfer point. Thermal paste assists in this heat transfer process making it more efficient. Not using thermal paste reduces this heat transfer ability. Using anti-seize (which is an insulator) reduces heat transfer even more than not using anything at all.

spark-plug-heat dissipation.jpg

[UtahPete]

I am no spark plug engineer. But I do know that trying to compare Motorcycle to Auto spark plug service intervals is not Apples to Apples. Typical car engines cruise at less than 2k RPM. Our Spyders are usually running at twice that RPM or more. Not to mention, we typically run our motorcycle engines much harder than a typical car.

Iridium is extremely hard (and brittle). Which means you need to be careful when gaping them. And that they wear much slower because of the Iridium.

If you do not use thermal paste, or, you use Anti-Seize on your spark plugs. They will wear out faster on your Spyder/Ryker because they will tend to run hotter than designed. Running your spark plugs too hot will also tend to reduce power and fuel mileage. As you can see below, the thread area of your spark plug is a major heat transfer point. Thermal paste assists in this heat transfer process making it more efficient. Not using thermal paste reduces this heat transfer ability. Using anti-seize (which is an insulator) reduces heat transfer even more than not using anything at all.

spark-plug-heat dissipation.jpg

Ron, what is the best way to adjust the gap on the iridium plugs, since as you say they are more brittle?

And, should they still be changed at the 28k interval?

I have your plugs and will be performing this maintenance soon.

[Lew L]

.

Hi Pete,

I've used iridium plugs in the past and they should only be gapped by CAREFULLY bending the ground wire. Many gapping tools have a little "U" tool attached for this purpose. I'll Be Changing my plugs after this summers ryding season.

Lew L

[UtahPete]

.

Hi Pete,

I've used iridium plugs in the past and they should only be gapped by CAREFULLY bending the ground wire. Many gapping tools have a little "U" tool attached for this purpose. I'll Be Changing my plugs after this summers ryding season.

Lew L

Hi Lew, so the technique is the same, but with more care?

[BajaRon]

Ron, what is the best way to adjust the gap on the iridium plugs, since as you say they are more brittle?

And, should they still be changed at the 28k interval?

I have your plugs and will be performing this maintenance soon.

I don't agree with all BRP recommended service intervals. But my feeling is that it is a good idea to change the spark plugs around their recommended service interval or 28k. This is more of an unscientific opinion based on many motorcycles that I've owned over the years, including the Spyder and Ryker. Most notice a quicker start and better throttle response after changing plugs around the 30k mark. But, of course, there are other opinions.

You will need a tool that does not touch the center electrode. It's not so much that the center electrode is extremely fragile. It's more the fact that it's easy to put a great deal of pressure on it with a wedge type gaping tool. Much more pressure than it can take. If you fracture the electrode, the plug is no good. Still, it is easily and safely done with the right tool.

It is OK to use the wire gauges on the correct tool to measure gap. Feeler gauges will give you more readings and can also be used. It's not that you can't touch the center electrode at all. Just don't touch it when making adjustments to the grounding electrode.

GapTool1.jpg

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Here's a couple of pics of one of the OEM spark plugs when I changed them at around 28k. The center electrode is in great condition. It's difficult to see but the ground electrode shows erosion and a little bit of a pit. As I recall all three plugs showed the erosion.

Center electrode.jpg

Ground electrode erosion.jpg

[acdcking12]

Here's a couple of pics of one of the OEM spark plugs when I changed them at around 28k. The center electrode is in great condition. It's difficult to see but the ground electrode shows erosion and a little bit of a pit. As I recall all three plugs showed the erosion.

Center electrode.jpg

Ground electrode erosion.jpg

So does that mean they really needed to be replaced? Or were in general, great condition and the change was not needed?

[Gunner3773]

Well, sometimes the Spyder people get it right. I'm sure going to check mine out when the time comes.

Do you use premium gasoline?
Any other information you can provide would be appreciated. ......

I always use 91 Non-Oxy in my bikes.