Hope you're all happy now!

[UtahPete]

They know who they are. But it doesn't hurt any of us to be reminded once in awhile to keep posts civil. I think the real reason I started this thread is I was pissed that an otherwise informative and worthwhile discussion that deserved to be kept alive got yanked due to uncivil commenting.

It's too bad when that happens. I guess it's more efficient and fair than the moderator constantly having to exercise judgment about individual posts within a thread.

[LeftCoast]

1. Responding to a post that gets your dander up is a choice, you don’t HAVE to. Try to let it go and move on.

2. After one or two posts where it’s obvious there won’t be agreement just agree to disagree and move on.

Just my .02 cents worth and I’m not saying I haven’t violated these a time or two.

[Pirate looks at --]

fjray, that really doesn’t read well. An apology shouldn’t include a “justification”, and most certainly shouldn’t be issuing a further “challenge”.

Pete

Have to agree with you Pete! In these cases I apply the "ignore" button liberally. If someone attacks, I turn them off!

[PMK]

It's too bad when that happens. I guess it's more efficient and fair than the moderator constantly having to exercise judgment about individual posts within a thread.

Yes and no. As I mentioned, punish all for a few persons actions? Granted that is easier to do in a busy day, however, in retrospect, it is also the proverbial flushing the baby with the drain water. Both the good and bad are discarded. Maybe the babies simply need to be sent to time out...

[UtahPete]

Yes and no. As I mentioned, punish all for a few persons actions? Granted that is easier to do in a busy day, however, in retrospect, it is also the proverbial flushing the baby with the drain water. Both the good and bad are discarded. Maybe the babies simply need to be sent to time out...

No matter what the moderator does, he won't be able to satisfy everyone. I'm sure he has better things to do than get involved in endless and pointless disputes.

[Pirate looks at --]

There's an "Ignore Button" never new that or even know where it is! Interesting...

Yep, my ignore list is long and getting longer. On the left margin click on the persons screen name. Then click on view profile, then add to ignore list! That really makes this forum much more enjoyable!

[UtahPete]

They know who they are. But it doesn't hurt any of us to be reminded once in awhile to keep posts civil. I think the real reason I started this thread is I was pissed that an otherwise informative and worthwhile discussion that deserved to be kept alive got yanked due to uncivil commenting.

Actually, the perpetrators may not 'know who they are'.

[Lew L]

Yep, my ignore list is long and getting longer. On the left margin click on the persons screen name. Then click on view profile, then add to ignore list! That really makes this forum much more enjoyable!

+1


But I've been known to " PEEK " ------ mostly to prove to myself that putting trolls on the " ignore list " was the right thing to do. It almost always was.

This forum is a good place and threads that go south need to be "Moderated".

Lew L

[Pirate looks at --]

+1


But I've been known to " PEEK " ------ mostly to prove to myself that putting trolls on the " ignore list " was the right thing to do. It almost always was.

This forum is a good place and threads that go south need to be "Moderated".

Lew L

Or if someone who is not on your ignore "quotes" a troll you are confronted with their spew! I agree Lew, there is very little moderation on this Bored, and when it happens, it is justified!

[Holly]

That's why I never post anything controversial...………………………………

[ARtraveler]

For what it's worth. A few things I am now doing...

There are a couple "pot stirrers," that's all they do--really. I no longer reply to their threads. Period. I used to reply just to chide them. They are who they are, and they will do what they do. Its up to the "moderator" to keep them or eventually ban them. Most of the time--their threads get killed.

I still like to read most threads. It gives a good insight into what's going on "today."

I have been careful about the "ignore" button. I had one person on ignore for about two months. It appears they have "mellowed" a bit. I now have them back on line. I like to read what most everyone has to say. I just did not like being "attacked" for everything I posted.

I do not agree with what everyone says. Now...I just let it go and avoid getting into "pissing" matches. Not worth getting high blood pressure over.

Unfortunately, the activity seems way down on the site. One or two active pages a day. Seems less are posting on the site. Some days I post less than five times and some days even less. Hope you folks are enjoying the break. I note that the interest level seems to run in cycles. When they introduce the "new" Spyder--let's see what happens.

Starting to look like the competitive site that was up an running for a couple months. Hope this is not an omen.

[Bob Denman]

That's why I never post anything controversial...………………………………

[irvin48]

[Pirate looks at --]

For what it's worth. A few things I am now doing...

There are a couple "pot stirrers," that's all they do--really. I no longer reply to their threads. Period. I used to reply just to chide them. They are who they are, and they will do what they do. Its up to the "moderator" to keep them or eventually ban them. Most of the time--their threads get killed.

I still like to read most threads. It gives a good insight into what's going on "today."

I have been careful about the "ignore" button. I had one on for about two months. It appears they have "mellowed" a bit. I now have them back on. I like to read what most everyone has to say. I just did not like being "attacked" for everything I posted.

I do not agree with what everyone says. Now...I just let it go and avoid getting into "pissing" matches. Not worth getting high blood pressure over.

Unfortunately, the activity is way down on the site. One or two active pages a day. Seems less and less are on the site. Some days I post less than five times and some days even less. Hope you folks are enjoying the break.

Starting to look like the competitive site that was up an running for a couple months. Hope this is not an omen.

Great stuff AK! If people would "ignore" with the ignore button, or just completely ignore these people, they will get bored and go spread their filth somewhere else! What gets them off is our "Reaction" to their posts. I have chosen to "Respond" to their material by not reading it because of the source, and not posting in their threads and putting them on the ignore list, as what they have to offer does not warrant reading! If we can all do this in our own way, they will go away! I agree that most of they know who they are and they take great pleasure in what they do.

[wyliec]

That's why I never post anything of value...………………………………

Great post!!!

[rays hell]

A friend of mine says you Can Not tell emotion or intent in the written word.
I think if you feel you have to have the last word, you may find yourself very busy trying to spar with some people.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I probably shouldn't post again but I just feel a need to share a few things I learned in 22 years in Quality Assurance and contractor oversight.

No expert knowledge or opinion is infallible. That does not mean expert knowledge and opinion is not valid, because most of the time it is. It just isn't the ultimate. I've made this comment to my doctors several times. "Every person in the food and medical industry who is knowledgeable about diet and nutrition shares a common characteristic with every teacher of every religion in the world. There isn't a single one of them who has a lock on the truth!" As we know, expert opinions often conflict. My GPs for years prescribed Actos for me for diabetes. I was told it was good drug to take as it had few, if any, side effects. A few weeks ago my current GP had me drop it and change to another med in an attempt to get my blood glucose numbers to come down. I visited with my heart doctor the other day and I mentioned about dropping Actos. "That's good," he said. "Actos is a bad actor for the heart." So, did I receive advice based on new science, or is this a case of differing expert opinions?

Experts don't always know the answer. A number of years ago I was doing a QA audit of one of the Army Ammunition Plants. They were making grenades that go into artillery rounds. These are kind of like a small cup with explosive pressed into it. I asked the management team a few questions about the filling and pressing operation.
"What is the effect of pressure variation during the pressing process?" Their answer, "We don't know."
"What is the effect of ambient temperature changes during pressing?" "We don't know."
"What is the effect of speed differences of the plunger during pressing?" "We don't know."
"What is the effect of varying the dwell time of the plunger at the bottom of the pressing stroke?" "We don't know."
I responded with this, "You guys have been pounding powder for 40 years and you really don't know what it is you are doing!" Were they making junk all this time? No. But they did have a lot of duds and did not know why. These were expert ammunition makers having been doing it since during World War II, and still they did not have all the answers.

During my QA career I came up with this slogan: QAQAQA, The Questioning Approach of Quality Assurance Leads to the Quintessential Answer. I did not need to know the answer beforehand in order the ask the question. I always said one of three things would result whenever I questioned an engineer, production manager, or even a line worker. 1) I learned something; or 2) the person I was questioning would reevaluate their process and make changes to improve it; or 3) in the process of defending the way they did things they reaffirmed the correctness of what they were doing.

Somewhere I read the following bit of wisdom; "The greatest impediment to progress is already having the answer!" Never hesitate to question what anyone says on this forum, but do it in a civil respectful manner. We will all learn more. And once in awhile, even, we may realize we were wrong. I have.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

IMS the above was a pleasant read but imho opinion it was apples to oranges and mostly it was .... well it could be, but maybe not, etc..... So I ask you this, if someone on the Forum insists over and over and over that they feel changing your Oil isn't really necessary and then resorts to PERSONAL Attacks on those with an opposing opinion, IS THIS OK ?? .... Should those who know better just ignore those who scream the loudest.....after all the knowledgeable ones are going to change their oil, and the ones who don't ( like a Newbie ) will just learn the Hard way ie. engine seizure..... ( and this did occur on this Forum by a member who has since left ) ..... I'm an X-LEO with 35 yrs. Ignoring wrongdoing wasn't an option for me then, and it still isn't now..... ( that was an Analogy ) .....Today it seems there are lots of folks whose attitude is " if it doesn't effect me personally,( because I know better ) then I'll just keep my mouth shut..... Thank you for starting this Thread maybe some people will re-think what they have to say and the way they say it........ jmho .....Mike

[PMK]

I probably shouldn't post again but I just feel a need to share a few things I learned in 22 years in Quality Assurance and contractor oversight.

No expert knowledge or opinion is infallible. That does not mean expert knowledge and opinion is not valid, because most of the time it is. It just isn't the ultimate. I've made this comment to my doctors several times. "Every person in the food and medical industry who is knowledgeable about diet and nutrition shares a common characteristic with every teacher of every religion in the world. There isn't a single one of them who has a lock on the truth!" As we know, expert opinions often conflict. My GPs for years prescribed Actos for me for diabetes. I was told it was good drug to take as it had few, if any, side effects. A few weeks ago my current GP had me drop it and change to another med in an attempt to get my blood glucose numbers to come down. I visited with my heart doctor the other day and I mentioned about dropping Actos. "That's good," he said. "Actos is a bad actor for the heart." So, did I receive advice based on new science, or is this a case of differing expert opinions?

Experts don't always know the answer. A number of years ago I was doing a QA audit of one of the Army Ammunition Plants. They were making grenades that go into artillery rounds. These are kind of like a small cup with explosive pressed into it. I asked the management team a few questions about the filling and pressing operation.
"What is the effect of pressure variation during the pressing process?" Their answer, "We don't know."
"What is the effect of ambient temperature changes during pressing?" "We don't know."
"What is the effect of speed differences of the plunger during pressing?" "We don't know."
"What is the effect of varying the dwell time of the plunger at the bottom of the pressing stroke?" "We don't know."
I responded with this, "You guys have been pounding powder for 40 years and you really don't know what it is you are doing!" Were they making junk all this time? No. But they did have a lot of duds and did not know why. These were expert ammunition makers having been doing it since during World War II, and still they did not have all the answers.

During my QA career I came up with this slogan: QAQAQA, The Questioning Approach of Quality Assurance Leads to the Quintessential Answer. I did not need to know the answer beforehand in order the ask the question. I always said one of three things would result whenever I questioned an engineer, production manager, or even a line worker. 1) I learned something; or 2) the person I was questioning would reevaluate their process and make changes to improve it; or 3) in the process of defending the way they did things they reaffirmed the correctness of what they were doing.

Somewhere I read the following bit of wisdom; "The greatest impediment to progress is already having the answer!" Never hesitate to question what anyone says on this forum, but do it in a civil respectful manner. We will all learn more. And once in awhile, even, we may realize we were wrong. I have.

Sounds like the grenade manufacturer needs less tribal / OJT knowledge and more valid employee training, along with an effective, properly accomplished 6S program.

As for the medical stuff, seems side effects and more importantly long term knowledge is something learned outside the lab. Many great products still to this day perform wonderful for what they were designed for, asbestos for example, or leaded paints, but when you add in human factors, the product gets a bad reputation. Drug side effects, I believe sometimes only come to light after real time use over time.

As for relating to this topic, and the one that was removed, people are people, the rules are posted, and while I do not agree in mass punishment, I have witnessed some folks here get personal time outs with short term bans vs deleting an entire topic if it had value to others.

[missouriboy]

I hope you guys are all happy now that your sniping at each other and got the tire thread killed! Disagreements are fine until they turn into personal attacks. Remember that next time!

What tire thread got killed?

I just posted on the recent Altimax thread.

[Grandpot]

I probably shouldn't post again but I just feel a need to share a few things I learned in 22 years in Quality Assurance and contractor oversight.

No expert knowledge or opinion is infallible. That does not mean expert knowledge and opinion is not valid, because most of the time it is. It just isn't the ultimate. I've made this comment to my doctors several times. "Every person in the food and medical industry who is knowledgeable about diet and nutrition shares a common characteristic with every teacher of every religion in the world. There isn't a single one of them who has a lock on the truth!" As we know, expert opinions often conflict. My GPs for years prescribed Actos for me for diabetes. I was told it was good drug to take as it had few, if any, side effects. A few weeks ago my current GP had me drop it and change to another med in an attempt to get my blood glucose numbers to come down. I visited with my heart doctor the other day and I mentioned about dropping Actos. "That's good," he said. "Actos is a bad actor for the heart." So, did I receive advice based on new science, or is this a case of differing expert opinions?

Experts don't always know the answer. A number of years ago I was doing a QA audit of one of the Army Ammunition Plants. They were making grenades that go into artillery rounds. These are kind of like a small cup with explosive pressed into it. I asked the management team a few questions about the filling and pressing operation.
"What is the effect of pressure variation during the pressing process?" Their answer, "We don't know."
"What is the effect of ambient temperature changes during pressing?" "We don't know."
"What is the effect of speed differences of the plunger during pressing?" "We don't know."
"What is the effect of varying the dwell time of the plunger at the bottom of the pressing stroke?" "We don't know."
I responded with this, "You guys have been pounding powder for 40 years and you really don't know what it is you are doing!" Were they making junk all this time? No. But they did have a lot of duds and did not know why. These were expert ammunition makers having been doing it since during World War II, and still they did not have all the answers.

During my QA career I came up with this slogan: QAQAQA, The Questioning Approach of Quality Assurance Leads to the Quintessential Answer. I did not need to know the answer beforehand in order the ask the question. I always said one of three things would result whenever I questioned an engineer, production manager, or even a line worker. 1) I learned something; or 2) the person I was questioning would reevaluate their process and make changes to improve it; or 3) in the process of defending the way they did things they reaffirmed the correctness of what they were doing.

Somewhere I read the following bit of wisdom; "The greatest impediment to progress is already having the answer!" Never hesitate to question what anyone says on this forum, but do it in a civil respectful manner. We will all learn more. And once in awhile, even, we may realize we were wrong. I have.

IMS:

That was really interesting. I'm going to use it in my QA class if you don't mind.

[UtahPete]

I think a lot of the heated disagreements could be resolved amicably if those posting opinions would; a. Qualify the basis for their opinion (e.g. education, training, observation, personal experience, what their buddies believe, etc) and b. Be willing to differentiate between expertise (i.e. facts and science) vs. strongly held beliefs.

Of course if we could all do that, we wouldn't have a polarized nation, or interesting discussions.

As the French would say, 'vive la difference '

[Bob Denman]

Yelling.jpg

[Two cats]

There's an "Ignore Button" never new that or even know where it is! Interesting...

yes there is, its called a Off Button. Just look around and you'll find it. If it's on your I phone it called the Ignore button.

[Road-Kill]

Arguing over tires?......seriously?
The threads on tires have never devolved into a fight.
If I was at a dinner party and we talked about tires the conversation would sound like a tire thread.
My "arguement" was traction and only requested citations that show its not being lost.
Until I read this thread I didn't know a tire thread was deleted.....what ever happened to the ignore button?