BRP Idler Failure....DONT BEAT ME UP

[Road-Kill]

My bike needed tires, break pads, fluids, spark plugs, filters etcetera. (27,000 mile overhaul $$$$$$)
I asked my dealer to replace my trusted BRP idler because 25,000 miles is a lot to ask considering the abuse it takes.
After an hour he comes out and tells me replacing the BRP idler was a good call.
He handed me my busted (trusted) idler showing the main spring had cracked off and the idler was just bouncing on my belt.
BRP will not honor the warranty because its failure was "discovered" after the one year mark.
The rest of the idler was in excellent shape including the bearing but became worthless as an idler from the lack of tension.
I'm considering DOCs and will post accordingly.

Don't beat me up too bad cause I have been a staunch defender of BRPs idler

[nslowmotion]

If you go with Doc Humphreys vibration Dampener, you will be very happy with it.

[Peteoz]

He handed me my busted (trusted) idler showing the main spring had cracked off and the idler was just bouncing on my belt.
BRP will not honor the warranty because its failure was "discovered" after the one year mark.
The rest of the idler was in excellent shape including the bearing but became worthless as an idler from the lack of tension.
I'm considering DOCs and will post accordingly.
Don't beat me up too bad cause I have been a staunch defender of BRPs idler

That’s interesting, Road Kill. Doc had a few early failures due to the spring breaking and he replaced it with a more heavy duty one. You don’t often hear of the BRP spring breaking though. It’s also interesting that the bearing was in good shape after 25,000. Makes you wonder if the BRP failure issue with the bearings can be contributed to a less than perfect alignment.

BRP don’t do themselves any favours in not providing you a new one under warranty given its cheap cost, the bad press they have received about it, and the fact that they are unsure exactly when it broke. It would have been a great opportunity for a bit of positive PR for them, but that doesn’t appear to be in their list of key drivers

Pete

[Road-Kill]

The bearing was in near perfect condition.
The big tension spring is what cracked.
My dealer never contacted BRP because it was over the one year mark.
Considering its cost I'm not mad that BRP or my dealer will not replace under warranty.
He still has my bike and is installing a new BRP idler as I type this.
My question to DOC would be both reliability and does his reduce vibration more than BRPs idler.
There never was much tension on BRPs idler......what's the tension on DOCs?
Is DOCs just heavier duty?

That’s interesting, Road Kill. Doc had a few early failures due to the spring breaking and he replaced it with a more heavy duty one. You don’t often hear of the BRP spring breaking though. It’s also interesting that the bearing was in good shape after 25,000. Makes you wonder if the BRP failure issue with the bearings can be contributed to a less than perfect alignment.

BRP don’t do themselves any favours in not providing you a new one under warranty given its cheap cost, the bad press they have received about it, and the fact that they are unsure exactly when it broke. It would have been a great opportunity for a bit of positive PR for them, but that doesn’t appear to be in their list of key drivers

Pete

[hypurone]

\
My question to DOC would be both reliability and does his reduce vibration more than BRPs idler.
There never was much tension on BRPs idler......what's the tension on DOCs?
Is DOCs just heavier duty?

I can speak to some of these questions as I have had both. As with you, my bearing & roller were perfect and my spring was still functioning but not with very much tension AND I could lift up on it and it would stick in place. So something weird going on with the pivot as well.... I took painstaking attention to its alignment and made a tool out of wood just as Doc does for his (and supplies with it) so I know I was running under a 1/32" variance at various places around the belt length (always measured rolling forward only). So I prob could have just lubed the BRP pivot and moved on but Doc finally had a sale so what the heck!

As for the Doc replacement, yes, it is night and day beefier and the spring tension is greater out of the box than the BRP unit was. Now the BRP made a night and day diff after its installation but going from that to Doc's unit is night and day to a brand new BRP unit! The BRP unit took out 95% of the vibes for me when new and Doc's is 100%, NO BS! YRMV....

[2dogs]

Has about 6 lbs. of downward pressure on the belt. Measured it with a fish scale.

[almosthere]

Ok I guess I am in the dark as to what proper alignment is. I bought and installed a Doc's belt dampener last year just before trip to 10 year university in Canada. Within 2K miles I noticed the vibration came back. At our first opportunity I reached under and discovered the roller was just sitting on the belt, no pressure. That night I removed the arm and roller and yep broke spring, end that attaches to the non moving part. Doc the great guy he is replaced it at no cost. He asked if it was aligned correctly. That replacement lasted another 10K miles. I ordered 2 more spare springs. I paid for this time. The third lasted another about 8K miles. So my first question. What is a proper alignment? The roller on the belt was rolling down the middle of the belt.

[Peteoz]

My question to DOC would be both reliability and does his reduce vibration more than BRPs idler.
There never was much tension on BRPs idler......what's the tension on DOCs?
Is DOCs just heavier duty?

Like Hypurone, I too have had both the BRP and Doc’s tensioner.....and my experience is exactly the same as Hypurone......except for it sticking in place when I lifted it up.
Pete

[Peteoz]

Ok I guess I am in the dark as to what proper alignment is. I bought and installed a Doc's belt dampener last year just before trip to 10 year university in Canada. Within 2K miles I noticed the vibration came back. At our first opportunity I reached under and discovered the roller was just sitting on the belt, no pressure. That night I removed the arm and roller and yep broke spring, end that attaches to the non moving part. Doc the great guy he is replaced it at no cost. He asked if it was aligned correctly. That replacement lasted another 10K miles. I ordered 2 more spare springs. I paid for this time. The third lasted another about 8K miles. So my first question. What is a proper alignment? The roller on the belt was rolling down the middle of the belt.

If it’s rolling right down the middle of the belt, and the roller is at 90 degrees to the side of the belt, the alignment is correct. That’s why Doc now supplies a wooden block with the tensioner to ensure everything is square. I’ll have to leave it to Doc to explain why your spring is breaking if the alignment is square and you are using his newer, heavy duty spring.

Pete

[cptjam]

We have removed quite a few BRP tensioners, normally after detecting damage to the belt. Never had one of doc’s ruin a belt. His roller and bearing are more robust, and if the spring breaks, no harm comes to the belt. I’m one for removing all the BRP ones I can!

[Road-Kill]

Thanks all for the responses.
Anyone have Docs website?
Even though my dealer has probably already installed another BRP, I'm considering trying another brand.

[jcthorne]

I have sold and installed a number of Doc's units and he makes a quality product. That said, the tensioner on my own bike predates his design by nearly a year. I have SmoothSpyder's tensioner and it still works as smoothly as it did when installed 3 yrs and 26000 miles ago.

[Bob Denman]

R-K,
I'm glad to hear that your Dealer caught it!

[Highwayman2013]

Thanks all for the responses.
Anyone have Docs website?
Even though my dealer has probably already installed another BRP, I'm considering trying another brand.

https://www.roadsterrenovations.info/products

[AY4B]

I also found a broken spring on my RR tentioner after i felt the vibration return. Called Doc and he sent me a new one plus an extra spring at no charge.

[Road-Kill]

This is beginning to sound like "six of one and a half dozen of another".
Any idler on a vibrating belt like this is bound to be beaten to death.
My BRP idler had 25,000+ miles on it when the spring was discovered broken.
Nothing was damaged other then my pride.
When it was working it did its job, cheaply, without the need for an alignment.
When I get my bike back I'll test the poundage of the spring and let everyone know what my thoughts are.

I also found a broken spring on my RR tentioner after i felt the vibration return. Called Doc and he sent me a new one plus an extra spring at no charge.

[capt.jim]

This is a new model that is currently being tested.
After watching arms stick, idlers fail and springs break, we decided there is a need for another choice.
This model uses the time tested, maintenance free, dual compression spring tensioner.
The tension is fully adjustable so you can use just the amount needed to get the job done, usually somewhere between 5-10 Lbs. depending on the severity of the vibration.
The mounting bracket is 3/16' stainless steel and is secured to the swing arm with a 3/8" U-bolt.
The tensioner also required a 3/16" stainless arm added to clear the various components.
The idler is our standard long life high speed idler that uses 6203 C-4 bearings, and has been machined as small as possible to provide maximum clearance.
The instructions are available to look over now if you email meWeb (2).jpguniversal 1 (2).jpgSmoothspyder VS BRP Idler.jpgSL pic.jpg, the tensioner will be available once all testing is completed.
jim@smoothspyder.com

[Road-Kill]

Just in time for Christmas.
Seems like a very robust unit.

This is a new model that is currently being tested.
After watching arms stick, idlers fail and springs break, we decided there is a need for another choice.
This model uses the time tested, maintenance free, dual compression spring tensioner.
The tension is fully adjustable so you can use just the amount needed to get the job done, usually somewhere between 5-10 Lbs. depending on the severity of the vibration.
The mounting bracket is 3/16' stainless steel and is secured to the swing arm with a 3/8" U-bolt.
The tensioner also required a 3/16" stainless arm added to clear the various components.
The idler is our standard long life high speed idler that uses 6203 C-4 bearings, and has been machined as small as possible to provide maximum clearance.
The instructions are available to look over now if you email meWeb (2).jpguniversal 1 (2).jpgSmoothspyder VS BRP Idler.jpgSL pic.jpg, the tensioner will be available once all testing is completed.
jim@smoothspyder.com

[BazF]

I have just fitted a BRP tensioner and am very glad to hear it could last 25,000 miles or longer.
That is about 40,000Km for me and I would be happy with that.
Also, I can buy and fit a half dozen BRP tensioners for the price of some of the after markets.
Baz

[Peteoz]

I have just fitted a BRP tensioner and am very glad to hear it could last 25,000 miles or longer.
That is about 40,000Km for me and I would be happy with that.
Also, I can buy and fit a half dozen BRP tensioners for the price of some of the after markets.
Baz

Just make sure you keep a close eye on it, Baz. If the bearing loosens and it skews, as has been seen quite a few times for whatever reason, there is a strong chance of it messing with your belt. That will make it a lot more expensive than an aftermarket.

Pete

[jcthorne]

This is a new model that is currently being tested.
After watching arms stick, idlers fail and springs break, we decided there is a need for another choice.
This model uses the time tested, maintenance free, dual compression spring tensioner.
The tension is fully adjustable so you can use just the amount needed to get the job done, usually somewhere between 5-10 Lbs. depending on the severity of the vibration.
The mounting bracket is 3/16' stainless steel and is secured to the swing arm with a 3/8" U-bolt.
The tensioner also required a 3/16" stainless arm added to clear the various components.
The idler is our standard long life high speed idler that uses 6203 C-4 bearings, and has been machined as small as possible to provide maximum clearance.
The instructions are available to look over now if you email meWeb (2).jpguniversal 1 (2).jpgSmoothspyder VS BRP Idler.jpgSL pic.jpg, the tensioner will be available once all testing is completed.
jim@smoothspyder.com

So glad to see you back in this product line. Have used and appreciated the quality of your products for years now.

[stmike 1800]

On the brp web site the have a idler pulley for the RT 2014 and up 219800419 . There is no pic and the price is around $ 40.00. Others have said there is no brp pulley for the RT ?

[PW2013STL]

On the brp web site the have a idler pulley for the RT 2014 and up 219800419 . There is no pic and the price is around $ 40.00. Others have said there is no brp pulley for the RT ?

There wasn't until recently. BRP must of realized that a lot of RT owners were modifying the F3 idler pulley to fit and came out with one.

[stmike 1800]

Now to get one on warranty .RTL 2018