Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 67
  1. #1
    Active Member bboley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Whitewater, WI
    Posts
    84
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default 17,000 Miles and the front pulley is history!

    Hello All,

    Spyderjerry and I just got done putting a Kumho Solus TA11 on the rear of my F3s. For the life of us we could not get the belt to keep tracking properly. After trying probably a dozen times with no luck we decided to see if something was going on with the front pulley. Well sure enough it wasn't just the stock Kendas that had given up the ghost. Yep this is what was left of the inside splines of the pulley. I am really glad that we caught this when we did as my wife and I are ryding our Spyders down to the Lake of the Ozarks for a week of smyle and this pulley would have made a mess of it.

    Great big shout out to Spyderjerry for all of his help getting me back on the road safely!

    Please everyone with an F3, check your pulley for rust from time to time. Don't do like I did and assume all is well.
    Attached Images Attached Images

    My Spyder History
    2013 ST Limited - 16,000 miles
    2015 F3s - 48,500 miles
    2016 F3t - TBD

  2. #2
    Very Active Member GaryTheBadger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Northwest Arkansas
    Posts
    862
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Is BRP ever going to do the right thing, formally acknowledge this issue and take corrective action on it,
    such as a paid service note? I recently read on a Spyder Facebook site that a call to BRP for support
    resulted in a response that they were unaware of this issue at all!
    Last edited by GaryTheBadger; 07-20-2018 at 08:07 PM.
    Enjoying now: 2015 Spyder F3 SE6, 1970 Indian MM-5A, 1972 Suzuki RV90J Rover, 2017 Indian Chieftain (wife's)
    Wish-I-had-kept-them: 2008 Spyder GS SE-5, 1967 Shelby GT500 w/Paxton supercharger, 1972 DeTomaso Pantera, 1991, 1992 & 2001 Acura NSX's, 2012 V-Star 950 Tourer, various 2-, 3- and 4-wheelers
    2015 F3 SE6 , White - The fastest color!

  3. #3
    Very Active Member Freddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    West Oz
    Posts
    906
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    They'll fix that as soon as they get the DESS issue fixed.

    http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...S-S-experiment
    The best substitute for brains & knowledge is....................silence.

  4. #4
    Very Active Member Arion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    San Antonio, TX & Moosehead Lake, ME
    Posts
    761
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Wow, that pulley says it's made in the USA. I didn't think we made anything any longer. I expected to read, 'Made in China or Sri Lanka or Bangladesh or Burkina Faso."
    2012 2012 RT-L and 3015 RT-S , 2012 - red and 2015 black (way too black)

  5. #5
    Very Active Member JKMSPYDER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Murphy, NC
    Posts
    1,389
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default FRONT PULLEY

    BRP is well aware of the front pulley problem on the F3’s. It happened to me as well. The pulley is made of a softer part than the shaft it bolts on to. This is to protect the shaft. Lamonster addressed this at the Deadwood three wheel rally last week. The current fix that BRP has come up with is a special locktite that is used on the splines of the pulley and shaft. Of course, this is done by the dealer when replacing the pulley. Only time will tell. The mystery is why this problem is so prevalent on the F3’s compared to other models.
    2020 F3 Ltd

    Spyderpops Bumpskid
    Spyderpops Brake/Run/Turn Signal LED's
    Lamonster Garage LED Fog Lights and Headlights
    2013 ST-S retired 1/9/16 at 25,061 miles
    2015 F3S sold at 77,565 miles.
    2015 F3-S , BajaRon Plugs Can-Am Red

  6. #6
    Very Active Member Bfromla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Bossier LoUiSiAna
    Posts
    5,978
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arion View Post
    Wow, that pulley says it's made in the USA. I didn't think we made anything any longer. I expected to read, 'Made in China or Sri Lanka or Bangladesh or Burkina Faso."
    The pulley itself is made in USA . the crap pressed in insert with the splines that is failing& assembled in Canada or Mexico
    just wanted to point that out

    2013 STL SE5 BLACK CURRANT
    SpyderPop's: LED bumpskid
    SmoothSpyder: dualmode back rest
    T r * * LED:foam grip covers, Tricrings, FenderZ,
    brake light strips, wide vue mirrors
    Rivico SOMA modulation brake leds
    sawblade mowhalk fender accents
    minispyder dash toy
    Lid lox
    KradelLock
    Pakitrack
    GENSSI ELITE LED H4 headlights
    FLO (Frunk Lid Organizer)
    BRP fog lights, trailer hitch
    SENA 20S EVO
    2013 STL , Stock Stock Black currant

  7. #7
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    5,545
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bfromla View Post
    The pulley itself is made in USA . the crap pressed in insert with the splines that is failing& assembled in Canada or Mexico
    just wanted to point that out
    The splines and the center section of the pulley are a one piece casting and of same material. Not a pressed in insert. The splines are machined and coated in the hub material.

    Blue Flame Spyder F3-S
    2015 F3S , Blue Flame

  8. #8
    Very Active Member Freddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    West Oz
    Posts
    906
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    When this same issue was happening 8-9 years ago BRP increased the torque on the retaining bolt. That seemed to eliminate further failure, assuming the pulley wasn't already damaged before re-torque. What's the torque spec on the F3 pulley bolt these days?
    The best substitute for brains & knowledge is....................silence.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Seymour, MO
    Posts
    16
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    A question I have not seen about the front pulley spines is if the drive belt vibration is a major contributing factor to the wear of the splines. You are feeling that vibration and all that vibration has to go through both pulleys of the drive belt to get to you.
    2015 RTS, Corbin armrest, Lamonster Spyderdock outfitted for Garmin mount, Spyder cuff with cup holder, highway pegs, Lidlox, Bumpskid, Swaybar, XM dock

  10. #10
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Tacoma WA.
    Posts
    126
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default Rusty Sprocket

    I wonder if, for preventative maintenance, you could remove the front sprocket and grease the splines lightly with heavy bearing grease?

    Quote Originally Posted by bboley View Post
    Hello All,

    Spyderjerry and I just got done putting a Kumho Solus TA11 on the rear of my F3s. For the life of us we could not get the belt to keep tracking properly. After trying probably a dozen times with no luck we decided to see if something was going on with the front pulley. Well sure enough it wasn't just the stock Kendas that had given up the ghost. Yep this is what was left of the inside splines of the pulley. I am really glad that we caught this when we did as my wife and I are ryding our Spyders down to the Lake of the Ozarks for a week of smyle and this pulley would have made a mess of it.

    Great big shout out to Spyderjerry for all of his help getting me back on the road safely!

    Please everyone with an F3, check your pulley for rust from time to time. Don't do like I did and assume all is well.
    2017 F3-S Daytona , Yellow and black

  11. #11
    Active Member SpyderJerry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Deerfield, Wi
    Posts
    170
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default no grease

    You could remove the pulley, check the splines, clean very well with parts cleaner. The get 348 loctite shaft retainer and apply to splines. Either buy a new bolt or use red loctite on bolt. Checked dealer for update on torque, they found none.
    2014 RT SE6

  12. #12
    Very Active Member Highwayman2013's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    North Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    4,561
    Spyder Garage
    1
    2016 F3 Limited
    2019 Ryker Rally
    2014 Suzuki V Strom 650
    2020 CSC TT 250
    2016 F 3 Limited , Vegas White

  13. #13
    Active Member bboley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Whitewater, WI
    Posts
    84
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Thanks again for all of your help on this "project" Spyderjerry!

    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderJerry View Post
    You could remove the pulley, check the splines, clean very well with parts cleaner. The get 348 loctite shaft retainer and apply to splines. Either buy a new bolt or use red loctite on bolt. Checked dealer for update on torque, they found none.

    My Spyder History
    2013 ST Limited - 16,000 miles
    2015 F3s - 48,500 miles
    2016 F3t - TBD

  14. #14
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    5,545
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
    When this same issue was happening 8-9 years ago BRP increased the torque on the retaining bolt. That seemed to eliminate further failure, assuming the pulley wasn't already damaged before re-torque. What's the torque spec on the F3 pulley bolt these days?
    Increased torque on the bolt will have NO impact on these straight cut splines. The bolt torque is applied to the end of the shaft which is flush to slightly proud of the pulley when installed. They are not tapered splines. As long as the bolt does not back off and allow the pulley to walk sideways, its done all it can. All engine torque is transmitted to the pulley through the splines, not the bolt.

    The issue is spline fretting. BRP has recommended a loctite product specific for spline shaft installations that removes the movement completely and has shown promise in solving this problem.

    Just FYI, I finally got bit by this problem myself at 26,000 miles. Pulley is still stuck on the shaft and puller and heat has not released it. Flange snapped where puller was clamped. Dealer and BRP are trying to determine 'what now' to get it off without destroying parts that require an engine tear down....

    Blue Flame Spyder F3-S
    2015 F3S , Blue Flame

  15. #15
    Active Member Bigmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Corpus Christi Texas
    Posts
    249
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GaryTheBadger View Post
    Is BRP ever going to do the right thing, formally acknowledge this issue and take corrective action on it,
    such as a paid service note? I recently read on a Spyder Facebook site that a call to BRP for support
    resulted in a response that they were unaware of this issue at all!
    Yeap! That's BRP for you. Always denying everything. Just like the belt vibration issue. I harass them soooooo much, they finally agreed to install a belt tensioner under the warranty. No charge to me. We all have to do that and may be, just may be, they'll provide service and take care of their customer.
    2018 RT Limited "Blondie"

  16. #16
    Active Member bboley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Whitewater, WI
    Posts
    84
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
    Increased torque on the bolt will have NO impact on these straight cut splines. The bolt torque is applied to the end of the shaft which is flush to slightly proud of the pulley when installed. They are not tapered splines. As long as the bolt does not back off and allow the pulley to walk sideways, its done all it can. All engine torque is transmitted to the pulley through the splines, not the bolt.

    The issue is spline fretting. BRP has recommended a loctite product specific for spline shaft installations that removes the movement completely and has shown promise in solving this problem.

    Just FYI, I finally got bit by this problem myself at 26,000 miles. Pulley is still stuck on the shaft and puller and heat has not released it. Flange snapped where puller was clamped. Dealer and BRP are trying to determine 'what now' to get it off without destroying parts that require an engine tear down....
    The same thing happened to us as we tried to get the bad pulley off. The problem with mine was that the pulley needed to be turned so that what was left of the splines on the pulley lined up with the groves on the shaft. As soon as we got the splines and grooves lined up it popped right off with the puller. We ended up putting the puller on the back side of the pulley after the front flange broke off.

    I was lucky my pulley could be turned by hand, if the pulley is tight on the shaft maybe you could put a screw driver or something in the belt groove of the pulley and hit it with a hammer to break it free. Good luck
    Last edited by bboley; 07-22-2018 at 07:39 AM.

    My Spyder History
    2013 ST Limited - 16,000 miles
    2015 F3s - 48,500 miles
    2016 F3t - TBD

  17. #17
    Very Active Member Freddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    West Oz
    Posts
    906
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
    Increased torque on the bolt will have NO impact on these straight cut splines. The bolt torque is applied to the end of the shaft which is flush to slightly proud of the pulley when installed. <snip
    WOW that's utterly alarming! If that is the case then the bolt does nothing at all apart from stopping the pulley falling off - earlier. On the V-twins the pulley is proud of the shaft, meaning the clamping force (term used in BRP s/bulletin) of a tighter bolt locks the pulley & shaft together, preventing relative movement and thus wear - end of problem.

    If what you say is true, and I don't doubt it, these failures will be repeated time and again - and we're already seeing that reported on some unfortunate owners' trikes.

    How could such a design flaw be possible? Oh yes - it's a Spyder.
    The best substitute for brains & knowledge is....................silence.

  18. #18
    Active Member SpyderJerry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Deerfield, Wi
    Posts
    170
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default 648

    Quote Originally Posted by Highwayman2013 View Post
    Thank you, hit wrong key
    2014 RT SE6

  19. #19
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    SoFlo
    Posts
    4,301
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
    Increased torque on the bolt will have NO impact on these straight cut splines. The bolt torque is applied to the end of the shaft which is flush to slightly proud of the pulley when installed. They are not tapered splines. As long as the bolt does not back off and allow the pulley to walk sideways, its done all it can. All engine torque is transmitted to the pulley through the splines, not the bolt.

    The issue is spline fretting. BRP has recommended a loctite product specific for spline shaft installations that removes the movement completely and has shown promise in solving this problem.

    Just FYI, I finally got bit by this problem myself at 26,000 miles. Pulley is still stuck on the shaft and puller and heat has not released it. Flange snapped where puller was clamped. Dealer and BRP are trying to determine 'what now' to get it off without destroying parts that require an engine tear down....
    Belt on, bolt out, place a Penny on the end of the shaft, install the puller, snug puller. Fire the motor, while in gear hold brake, and shift back and forth from 1 to R. When the splines on some of the aircraft syuff gets stuck because they failed to lubricate the splines, we do similar to release them. Yours may be wedged on, and like the other guy said, it may not budge until it is aligned.

    You may even want a second person tightening the puller slightly each bump of the shifter.

    Be careful if you spray loose juice into the splines, some of that stuff attacks rubber. Probably best a light lube to release it like motor oil or a good soak of WD.

    If it does not release, carefully cut the pulley off.

  20. #20
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    5,545
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    Belt on, bolt out, place a Penny on the end of the shaft, install the puller, snug puller. Fire the motor, while in gear hold brake, and shift back and forth from 1 to R. When the splines on some of the aircraft syuff gets stuck because they failed to lubricate the splines, we do similar to release them. Yours may be wedged on, and like the other guy said, it may not budge until it is aligned.

    You may even want a second person tightening the puller slightly each bump of the shifter.

    Be careful if you spray loose juice into the splines, some of that stuff attacks rubber. Probably best a light lube to release it like motor oil or a good soak of WD.

    If it does not release, carefully cut the pulley off.

    Great idea on the rocking.

    When the flange snapped, I decided I was doing more harm than good and the bike is still under warranty so took it to the dealer and told them what I had done. They were pretty good about it, I also gave them the new pulley, bolt and loctite 648.

    I will suggest this to them if they do not have the pulley off by when I speak with them tues evening.

    Blue Flame Spyder F3-S
    2015 F3S , Blue Flame

  21. #21
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    218
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
    Great idea on the rocking.

    When the flange snapped, I decided I was doing more harm than good and the bike is still under warranty so took it to the dealer and told them what I had done. They were pretty good about it, I also gave them the new pulley, bolt and loctite 648.

    I will suggest this to them if they do not have the pulley off by when I speak with them tues evening.
    Did you get the red dust beforehand? Had you put anything else on it. Like a moly lube?

  22. #22
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    5,545
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Culpjp View Post
    Did you get the red dust beforehand? Had you put anything else on it. Like a moly lube?
    Red Dust, yes. I had not done anything to it.

    Blue Flame Spyder F3-S
    2015 F3S , Blue Flame

  23. #23
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Tacoma WA.
    Posts
    126
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Thumbs up Rusty Sprocket

    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderJerry View Post
    You could remove the pulley, check the splines, clean very well with parts cleaner. The get 348 loctite shaft retainer and apply to splines. Either buy a new bolt or use red loctite on bolt. Checked dealer for update on torque, they found none.

    Thanks..you would have thought that, with CanAm's obsession with putting self-locking compounds and locktite on just about every nut and bolt on their machines, they would have applied locktite spline retainer to that shaft. Probably will on their newest machines.
    2017 F3-S Daytona , Yellow and black

  24. #24
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Tacoma WA.
    Posts
    126
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default It's a Spyder

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
    WOW that's utterly alarming! If that is the case then the bolt does nothing at all apart from stopping the pulley falling off - earlier. On the V-twins the pulley is proud of the shaft, meaning the clamping force (term used in BRP s/bulletin) of a tighter bolt locks the pulley & shaft together, preventing relative movement and thus wear - end of problem.

    If what you say is true, and I don't doubt it, these failures will be repeated time and again - and we're already seeing that reported on some unfortunate owners' trikes.

    How could such a design flaw be possible? Oh yes - it's a Spyder.

    Could be worse..See SlingShot swing arm, shaft-and-rear end failures.
    2017 F3-S Daytona , Yellow and black

  25. #25
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Tacoma WA.
    Posts
    126
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default Preventative Maintenance

    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderJerry View Post
    Thank you, hit wrong key
    I was thinking of going ahead and pulling off the sprocket on my F3 with 2000 miles to prevent this issue, and installing the loctite shaft compound. If the sprocket isn't seized, do I still need a puller? Thanks.
    2017 F3-S Daytona , Yellow and black

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •