Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    6
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default syn or blend oil

    Confused here 2014 1330 motor which is better syn or blend oil ?

  2. #2
    Very Active Member Chupaca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    San Diego, CA.
    Posts
    31,097
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default Choices, choices

    Comes with a synthetic blend that works well and I have used since new. You will find that most here will recommend many synthetic, full synthetic oils and they are said to be better. So if you opt to go with the full synthetic you will have to choose from the many. BajaRon, a sponsor vendor here on the home page, carries the Amsoil which is a very good one. He also has the filters and much more....
    Gene and Ilana De Laney
    Mt. Helix, California

    ​2012 RS sm5
    2012 RS sm5 , 998cc V-Twin 106hp DIY brake and park brake Classic Black

  3. #3
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    North Central Florida
    Posts
    2,486
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vic View Post
    Confused here 2014 1330 motor which is better syn or blend oil ?
    Unless maybe you plan to run your Spyder for a million miles or so, there probably is no way you could ever tell the difference.

    Really. Honestly.

    Synthetic is better for really SEVERE service and really EXTREME temperatures, things that most people likely never encounter.

    In an engine that already is ~4 years old, there is no good reason to change from one to the other.

  4. #4
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Greeneville, TN
    Posts
    13,519
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Synthetic oils do a better job of lubricantion. That's why they put a little in with standard oil and call it 'Blended'. More of the better stuff is always better than just a little. With a fully synthetic lubricant your engine will run cooler, you'll get less wear, your transmission will shift better, and you can go further between oil changes and still maintain superior protection.

    A true synthetic oil, like Amsoil, is better than a mineral based oil with an additive package (also deemed 'Synthetic' in the USA).

    A truly honest discussion will not be about which oil is better. But whether or not you need a better oil. And this is where the opinions vary greatly. This is the arena into which all upgrade decisions ultimately are determined.
    Last edited by BajaRon; 06-29-2018 at 11:55 AM.
    Shop Ph: 423-609-7588 (M-F, 8-5, Eastern Time)

    Only SLOW people have to leave on time...





  5. #5
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Northern Kalifornia
    Posts
    3,398
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default Yep, what Ron said..........

    Amsoil 10w40 for 9k miles with Ron's oil filters. Couldn't do better if I tried. Had my oil analyzed three times, @ 3k,6k,and 9k. At 9k it was still good and held viscosity at 20w. Used Napa to analyze the oil each time. Cost is about $15 each time and they will tell you all you need to know about your oil.

  6. #6
    Very Active Member Deanna777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    7,986
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vic View Post
    Confused here 2014 1330 motor which is better syn or blend oil ?
    I have a 2014RTS-SE6 and I run the full Synthetic, Valvoline 4T Stroke Full Synthetic SAE 10W-40.

    It's formulated for specific needs of motorcycles including high temperatures, high RPM's, and wet clutch systems. Outstanding wet clutch protection for maximum power transfer and smooth shifting. Add protection against harmful deposits that can decrease engine performance. Excellent wear corrosion protection to help keep the engine performance best.

    Exceeds API Services SJ/SG/SF, JASO MA2.


    I have not had any problems, I change the oil every year.

    Deanna
    Last edited by Deanna777; 06-30-2018 at 01:29 PM. Reason: added to post @ 6/30 @ 2:28




    Current Spyder - 2023 F3 LTD Special Mineral Blue

    Red LED NANO Saddlebag Marker Lights with Full Illumination
    Sequential Fender LED'S (Amber/Red) with Safety Reflector
    Dual Power Plate (12 V & USB ports)
    Gremlin Bell
    Rear Trunk Organizer (4 holders, 2 Elastic Holders)
    Lamonster "Top Cuff" with adjustable drink Holder
    SpyderPops Missing Guard Belt
    Console Accent Trim (Carbon Fiber Domed Black)
    Ultimate F3 Floorboards
    Front Fairing Service Access Door Covers (Carbon Fiber Doomed Black)
    Sway Bar with Links
    Rolo Laser Alignment
    Half Cover


    Former Spyder - 2014 RTS SE6 Cognac SOLD
    2023 F3 LTD Special Series , N/A N/A Mineral Blue

  7. #7
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    754
    Spyder Garage
    2

    Default Full synthetic

    I just did my second oil change since owning my spyder. Went with full synthetic Mobil 4T and it does make a difference. Smoother shifts and is running cooler, even with the 90 degree heat today.
    Last edited by Joel The Biker; 06-29-2018 at 11:56 PM.
    2021 Sea to Sky RT , Highland green

  8. #8
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    North Central Florida
    Posts
    2,486
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BajaRon View Post
    A true synthetic oil, like Amsoil, is better than a mineral based oil with an additive package (also deemed 'Synthetic' in the USA).
    The mineral based product that is allowed to be called "synthetic" doesn't JUST have different additives. It is further refined or refined differently so that it holds it's viscosity better and some extra impurities are removed.

    And on a side note, Amsoil is no better (or worse) than any other true synthetic ester based oil.
    They have kind of gotten away from that claim recently but for a LONG time they claimed superiority to justify higher prices.

  9. #9
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Greeneville, TN
    Posts
    13,519
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Easy Rider View Post
    And on a side note, Amsoil is no better (or worse) than any other true synthetic ester based oil.
    They have kind of gotten away from that claim recently but for a LONG time they claimed superiority to justify higher prices.
    It is true that there are other 'True Full Synthetic', ester based lubricants comparable to Amsoil out there. Amsoil is just a well known example of a true synthetic oil. That is why I said; 'Like Amsoil'.

    I may have missed it. But I do not recall seeing where Amsoil claims to be better than any ester based oil. They do tout their product. But I think you will find this true of any manufacturer. I tout my products. It's the way it's done.

    As for cost. Refining a true synthetic at the molecular level is a more expensive process than using a mineral based oil with an additive package. I would classify that as a 'Reason' rather than an 'Excuse' to charge more.

    You are correct that there are competitors with lubricants equal to Amsoil products. But they are priced pretty much the same as Amsoil.

    I don't try to tell anyone which oil they should use. My intended purpose is to give people as many facts as I can so they can make an informed decision. I sell Amsoil at my actual dealer cost. I do not make anything on the oil. I like Amsoil and for those who want to use it. I try to make it as painless as possible.
    Last edited by BajaRon; 06-30-2018 at 09:54 AM.
    Shop Ph: 423-609-7588 (M-F, 8-5, Eastern Time)

    Only SLOW people have to leave on time...





  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    6
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default oils

    thank you all for taking the time with your input on this matter.

  11. #11
    Active Member Zoot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    181
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    I used to work for a major oil company and one day I called up a guy who worked with lube oils and asked him about syn blends. His take was that blends were a waste of money, they are typically something like only 10% synthetic. The real advantage of synthetics is resistance to coking, or carbon buildup due to heat. If you still have 90% mineral oil in your system you will still get about as much coking as if you used straight mineral oil.

  12. #12
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Greeneville, TN
    Posts
    13,519
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoot View Post
    I used to work for a major oil company and one day I called up a guy who worked with lube oils and asked him about syn blends. His take was that blends were a waste of money, they are typically something like only 10% synthetic. The real advantage of synthetics is resistance to coking, or carbon buildup due to heat. If you still have 90% mineral oil in your system you will still get about as much coking as if you used straight mineral oil.
    I have to agree 100%. In my opinion, blended oil is more a marketing maneuver than a genuine upgrade.

    Think of it this way. You could take 90% tap water and add 10% of the highest grade spring water or other excellent water product possible. How much improvement would that actual make? Do you really think that adding 10% excellent product to any 90% lesser product is going to make a huge difference?

    Though this gentleman was correct that coking (carbon buildup) is a primary issue with non synthetic oils. There is more to it than this. Mineral oil tends to shear or break down sooner. Synthetic oil adheres to parts better so you have more lubrication where you need it at startup. Full synthetic oil is better at preventing metal to metal contact than blended oils. It also flows better at low temperatures and will give you better protection for more miles. In my opinion, it is well worth going to a full synthetic oil, where you get 100% of the good stuff as opposed to just 10% with a blended oil.

    As a disclaimer. Please, DO NOT drink your oil! No matter HOW GOOD it is!
    Last edited by BajaRon; 07-20-2019 at 07:46 AM.
    Shop Ph: 423-609-7588 (M-F, 8-5, Eastern Time)

    Only SLOW people have to leave on time...





  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Cambridge Ontario Canada
    Posts
    10
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Back in the early 80’s Amsoil was the goto synthetic oil of choice as there wasn’t a lot of synthetic oil to choose from back then. I used it in my VW Rabbit GTI but left it when it went to $9 per litre (metric system here in Canada). I haven’t purchased my Spyders as of yet but when I do I will be using synthetic oil with Amsoil being the number 1 choice for me. I would love to run them on synthetic oil right from the get go. Due to the high cost of these vehicles is there really a better choice to extend their longevity?
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 08-28-2019 at 04:47 AM.

  14. #14
    Very Active Member h0gr1der's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    827
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    One thing I recall that hasn't been discussed came from my air cooled twin days, and that's oil in extreme failure mode. Synthetics keep lubricating long after regular oil has fried out. That was a big issue with the v-twin riding in parade conditions (think Sturgis), it's oil getting excessively hot. Check out the temperature ratings on regular vs synthetic, even the group III base stock synthetic oils do better than regular oils in this aspect.
    h0gr1der
    2018 RT Limited Blue/Chrome SE6 *Tri-Axis Bars*Adjustable Driver Backrest*175/55R15 Vredestein Front, 205/60R15 Vredestein Rear Tires*Baja Ron Front Spring Pre-Load Adjusters*Misty Mountain Sheepskin seat cover*Centramatic balancers *Garmin Zumo 595LM GPS*KOTT Grills*BajaRon swaybar*SpyderPops Alignment*Missing Belt guard*Magnetic Mirrors*Custom Rear Adjustable Shock*360° LED Headlights & Foglights*Progressive front fender turn signals
    States Visited on Less than 4 wheels.

  15. #15
    Active Member Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Musquash , New Brunswick , CANADA
    Posts
    51
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    I also have a 1999 Kawasaki 1500 Vulcan Nomad (with 145,000 klm's) . I was told by a Amsoil rep , that Amsoil was the ONLY oil that you DON"T HAVE to change before you store your wheels for the winter . That's about six mounts here in CANADA . What are your thoughts on this ??
    2009 Roadster SM5 , Silver and Black

  16. #16
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    western Colorado
    Posts
    1,142
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Peanut oil is the best! Gives the exhaust a nice fry chicken smell when you get on the gasss...

  17. #17
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Northern Kalifornia
    Posts
    3,398
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    This was an excellent oil thread until...........................................

  18. #18
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Greeneville, TN
    Posts
    13,519
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I also have a 1999 Kawasaki 1500 Vulcan Nomad (with 145,000 klm's) . I was told by a Amsoil rep , that Amsoil was the ONLY oil that you DON"T change before you store your wheels for the winter . That's about six mounts here in CANADA . What are your thoughts on this ??
    I sell Amsoil. And I would say this answer from the Amsoil rep is patently false. Lubricants have come a long way in the last few decades. Horsepower per cubic inch has gone way up, increasing internal pressures on components. More and more close tolerance hydraulic valves and solenoid components are used in today's engines that require very good lubricants to function properly. Not to mention, internal temperatures have risen as well. Lubricants have done a great job keeping up with the ever increasing demands that these engines place on motor oil.

    This rule of thumb to change oil before storage came from the days when it was imperative to prevent internal damage. However, this is no longer as true as it used to be. Though motor oil is not naturally able to prevent rust or corrosion. More than adequate protection can be engineered into a lubricant. I do not have a list of which oils will protect an engine in storage. But Amsoil is not alone in this. There are others.

    Amsoil describes a bit of what I am talking about. This statement refers to their 20w-50 MFC (motorcycle) oil. Other than viscosity, this is pretty much identical to the 10w-40 Amsoil I sell to Spyder owners. Interestingly, this Amsoil statement does not claim to be the only oil with rust prohibiters. And by inference, meaning a pre-storage oil change is not necessary

    Motorcycles are prone to rust from storage, humidity and short drives. Rust can cause major damage such as roller bearing failure, uncontrolled wear, compression loss and blow-by. Good rust protection, however, comes by design and is not natural to engine oils. Unlike many motorcycle oils, AMSOIL MCV contains special anti-rust agents. It passes the ASTM D-1748 humidity cabinet rust test and clearly demonstrates superior rust protection (see photos below).

    AmsoilRust1.jpg AmsoilRust2.jpg
    Amsoil -------------------------------Castrol

    The one thing I do not like about some of Amsoil's test results (this one as example) is that they do not always provide enough information about the competitors lubricant to be sure we are seeing an Apples to Apples comparison. This, to me, is a bit suspicious. Like cherry picking the results. As an Amsoil dealer, I know there is a good deal of skepticism about Amsoil products. And I think this kind of 'Test' result adds to customer doubts. So I post this more as a response to the OP's question than as any sales pitch for Amsoil. I don't mind being honest about Amsoil. Or any other product I carry. You don't want to buy 'Snake Oil'. And I don't want to sell Snake Oil.

    If you would like to view the entire article you can see it here.
    http://www.harley-performance.com/amsoil-mcv.html

    I will say this. I let my Spyder sit for over 2 years, maybe closer to 3 years, with the same Amsoil which already had over 5,300 miles on it when I parked it. I know, I could be turned in for Spyder abuse! And I am not recommending anyone do this! But to make a point about Amsoil. I put another 500 miles or so on that old oil when I finally got my Spyder running again, and had it analyzed by BlackStone Labs. The results were great and virtually identical to previous test results. Rust or damage to metal parts would definitely be reflected if present. So, to me, this verifies that Amsoil is doing the job. But not that other oils will not do as well. Though, as demonstrated in the pictures above. Not all oils will give this level of protection.

    Browsing around the Internet for information on this I stumbled upon this independent video comparing Amsoil to Royal Purple (which is a very good lubricant). I've watched several videos by this guy on a variety of products. It is a bit long. I think he does this to verify that he isn't cutting corners or biasing the results. But you can skip through using the slide bar to the results along the way. I thought it was pretty interesting.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2zS8MyvJxU
    Last edited by BajaRon; 03-22-2020 at 06:00 PM.
    Shop Ph: 423-609-7588 (M-F, 8-5, Eastern Time)

    Only SLOW people have to leave on time...





  19. #19
    Active Member Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Musquash , New Brunswick , CANADA
    Posts
    51
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    with BajaRon , I've been in the Marine business for a good many years . I've seen the difference between good and cheep oil. I don't care on the price of a good oil , especially if i only change it once a year. If i'm lucky enough to get the time to put the klm's on , that i need to change it twice . Then it will be well worth it . I guess it was a great summer. Sorry ... just my 2 cents ..
    2009 Roadster SM5 , Silver and Black

  20. #20
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Central VERMONT
    Posts
    20,272
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Thanks Ron - the testing imho was factual .... Mike

  21. #21
    Very Active Member canamjhb's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Mesa, Arid-Zone-A
    Posts
    2,942
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Thanks, Ron. Great info. I used blended in my Goldwing for years. In its old age (110,000 miles) I switched to Amsoil. The bike really loves the full syn. Now at 115,000 miles, the bike runs like new and shifts noticeably smoother..... Jim
    2005 Windveil Blue Premium Mustang Convertible
    2008 Honda GL1800/California Sidecar Trike, SOLD
    2014 Platinum Silver Satin Spyder RTL, SOLD
    Semper Fi


  22. #22
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Greeneville, TN
    Posts
    13,519
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by canamjhb View Post
    Thanks, Ron. Great info. I used blended in my Goldwing for years. In its old age (110,000 miles) I switched to Amsoil. The bike really loves the full syn. Now at 115,000 miles, the bike runs like new and shifts noticeably smoother..... Jim
    There are advantages to a premium, true synthetic oil. The down side is usually price. I do what I can in that regard. And I try to dispel misconceptions like believing that you can't put another brand in if you need to add oil on a trip and can't find Amsoil. This is not a problem. Amsoil gets along just fine with other lubricants. Or that you can't put a fully synthetic oil in a high mileage engine. It is amazing how persistent these kinds of ideas are in respect to just about any product.
    Shop Ph: 423-609-7588 (M-F, 8-5, Eastern Time)

    Only SLOW people have to leave on time...





  23. #23
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Northern Kalifornia
    Posts
    3,398
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    In a pinch, if you ever get in one, you can use any oil designated for diesel engines. Cheap-O diesel engine oil generally will not have the additives in it that modern gas engine oils have in them. Be sure and change out your oil and put the good stuff back in it ASAP. The little two banger Rotax engines burn oil, the three bangers don't, or at least they shouldn't.

  24. #24
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Land of Lincoln
    Posts
    216
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 2dogs View Post
    Amsoil 10w40 for 9k miles with Ron's oil filters. Couldn't do better if I tried. Had my oil analyzed three times, @ 3k,6k,and 9k. At 9k it was still good and held viscosity at 20w. Used Napa to analyze the oil each time. Cost is about $15 each time and they will tell you all you need to know about your oil.
    By your own information, that oil was no longer good.
    It may have had TBN left (acid buffer) and anti-wear additives in sufficient quantities (Zinc, Phosphorus, Ti, Moly) but failed in viscosity.
    9000 miles is way too long in a shared sump engine.
    You'll counter with "yeah but Can-Am tested it, blah, blah."
    I call bovine scat. Can-Am only has a responsibility to make sure the thing gets to 2 years and one day of warranty. They know their market, it's a recreational vehicle that will likely never see 100k miles. That 9k change interval is a marketing tool, not what the Rotax engineers would have decided.
    For example, the old 998 twin was also used in the Aprilia line of bikes. Only change was tune, and 6 speeds, where we had 5 and a reverse.
    Aprilia stuck with the Rotax recommendation of 15w50, CanAm recommended their 5w40 in it.
    Each rider will do what they will, it's your machine. But you are not doing the equipment any favors by running oil that long.
    What was the viscosity at 3k, and 6k? No doubt you'll begin to see a pretty steady decline in viscosity at 100c at those intervals.
    Ask yourself, if CanAm wanted a 20 weight protecting the moving parts, why not just start with that? Plenty of stout 20 weights out there. Would you change the oil, and replace it with 5w20? Yeah, everyone would shy away from that, but you are OK with a 20 weight spinning around in there at 7000 miles.
    Wear occurs when the oil film breaks down, or the dirt particles are larger than the oil film itself.
    Some oils will be a bit better, some way worse at viscosity retention.
    But rest assured, AmSoil, Redline, Motul, BelRay, or WhizBang will all break down over time.
    It's the nature of any multi-viscosity oil, ie, 10w40.
    I like AmSoil, I like BajaRon, there is no insult to either intended. Both are fine products, and vendors.
    But you are seriously better off running off the shelf Rotella 15w40 or Valvoline 10w40 conventional and changing at 4500 to 5000 than 9k intervals of any synthetic, for the longest life of the equipment and to protect the gearset from micro pitting.

  25. #25
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Land of Lincoln
    Posts
    216
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 2dogs View Post
    In a pinch, if you ever get in one, you can use any oil designated for diesel engines. Cheap-O diesel engine oil generally will not have the additives in it that modern gas engine oils have in them. Be sure and change out your oil and put the good stuff back in it ASAP. The little two banger Rotax engines burn oil, the three bangers don't, or at least they shouldn't.
    Sorry to keep quoting you.
    Diesel oils, since the CK designation a couple years back, are much more like gas engine oils now.
    Lower Z and P, so the DPF, (soot trap) lasts longer and regens are reduced.
    Older diesel oils ( there are still a few CJ oils) has much higher levels of anti-wear additives, and were actually very good for motorcycle engines if changed regularly. CK diesel oils will usually have more anti-wear additives in them than car oils, but generally fall between car and motorcycle oils as far as zinc, phosphorus, boron and titanium adds. They will have more anti-foam agents (silicon).
    If you still want a VERY stout diesel oil, go get some JohnDeere Plus 50 II.

    CK Rotella (current version) still has CJ levels of additives, very stout oils. PQIA just reviewed the 3 majors diesel offerings. In order for MC use, Rotella, Delvac, and I'd pass on Delo. https://pqia.org/2020/05/05/a-look-a...40-heavy-duty/
    Rotella beats some motorcycle oils in add pack, and it's made from Shell's slack wax process. It just will do the job fine if changed on regular intervals.

    Long ago, I'm talking the 70's, the Shell plant in WoodRiver, IL bottled Rotella and Suzuki oil on the same line, same product.
    500 quarts of Rotella, 500 quarts of Suzuki from the same batch and tap. Same date codes on the bottom, different boxes and bottles. Diesel oils have been going into motorcycle sumps for long time.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •