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Thread: Bleed Brakes

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    Active Member ris's Avatar
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    Default Bleed Brakes

    2015 RTSE6 Looking to do a complete bleed out of the brake system. Is there an easy way to get to the bleeder screw on the VSS/ABS MODULE. I am using a mighty vac break bleeder. THANK YOU

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    Do you have experience bleeding ABS systems ?
    And do you have access to the diagnostic computer ? I think that is necessary to do it "right".

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    Active Member ris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easy Rider View Post
    Do you have experience bleeding ABS systems ?
    And do you have access to the diagnostic computer ? I think that is necessary to do it "right".
    I have experience with bleeding ABS brakes. I don't have BUDS.

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    Very Active Member trikermutha's Avatar
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    I believe there is a procedure. Maybe rear then left then right to bleed. If I can find my annual I will post.

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    Active Member ris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trikermutha View Post
    I believe there is a procedure. Maybe rear then left then right to bleed. If I can find my annual I will post.
    I have the procedure. I am looking for ideas as to how to get to the ABS module.

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    Very Active Member Chupaca's Avatar
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    Default Patterns.....

    Left front
    Right front
    Rear
    VCM...located in the front of vehicle

    You can do rear only but recommended you follow with the VCM...
    Gene and Ilana De Laney
    Mt. Helix, California

    ​2012 RS sm5

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    Very Active Member SPYD3R's Avatar
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    Default BRAKES

    Quote Originally Posted by ris View Post
    2015 RTSE6 Looking to do a complete bleed out of the brake system. Is there an easy way to get to the bleeder screw on the VSS/ABS MODULE. I am using a mighty vac break bleeder. THANK YOU

    for what it's worth...
    i just bled the brakes on my F3 about 2 months ago, and DID NOT bleed the VCM.... i now have ridden about 1000 miles of smiles with NO ISSUES....
    when i bled them, i used a vacuum assist unit, and pulled an entire bottle of Brake Fluid (32 oz.) tru the system... i would imagine that every bit of the old fluid has been replaced... NO computer codes came up, and my brakes feel better than ever now...
    jmho
    Dan P
    SPYD3R

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    There will remain a wee bit of brake fluid in the ABS unit without using the BUDS to cycle the valving. Is that an issue? There is a certain amount that remains in the calipers that will not be purged out and that's the area subject to the highest heat, i.e., thermal break down of the DOT 4 fluid. The specs say to replace the fluid when it has water content of 4% or greater (see information related to the H-D recall for brake fluids).

    The brakes are a closed system. There is no circulation between the ABS module and the calipers, rather a column of fluid. The reason to purge the brake fluid is to remove the potential for high temperatures boiling the water in the brake fluid creating a compressible column of gas and spongy brake control. The highest likelihood of high temperatures is the brake pedal (due to proximity to the exhaust) and the calipers (due to frictional heating).

    The ABS system on the Spyder was adopted from an automotive system, which typically receive far less attention than our Spyders.

    Wayne
    pauly1 - SpyderDeb's 'wrench'
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    IBA #48220 SS1000 BB1500

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    Very Active Member Purple Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ris View Post
    I have the procedure. I am looking for ideas as to how to get to the ABS module.
    It's a bit easier to get at if you take the left front tire off...
    Though the manual say you need BUDS, I have done at least 6 full brake fluid changes with no problems not using BUDS.
    I always pump my brake pedal a few times to make sure I have good pressure before I turn the key on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPYD3R View Post
    for what it's worth...
    i just bled the brakes on my F3 about 2 months ago, and DID NOT bleed the VCM.... i now have ridden about 1000 miles of smiles with NO ISSUES....
    when i bled them, i used a vacuum assist unit, and pulled an entire bottle of Brake Fluid (32 oz.) tru the system... i would imagine that every bit of the old fluid has been replaced... NO computer codes came up, and my brakes feel better than ever now...
    jmho
    Dan P
    SPYD3R
    This is encouraging. My wifes 2008GS has the "double pump" brake pedal. It'll drop about 1.5" the first pump, then only about 1/2" the next and is really solid. She wants ONLY the 1/2" pump. I assumed the bike needed a bleed, but was terrified of the VCM. ! I'll have to search for some YouTube videos.

    Steve

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    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Guy View Post
    Though the manual say you need BUDS, I have done at least 6 full brake fluid changes with no problems not using BUDS.
    Do you know what all the BUDs process does? I don't. But after I had the brake line off the rear caliper and bled the rear brake I took it to the dealer for a BUDS check. I was thinking since Nanny is tied into the brake system there may be some calibration or resetting in BUDS that needs to be done to ensure that the VSS can do it's thing properly if it ever needs to. As I see it there are two aspects to the braking system, braking caused by pressing the pedal, and braking controlled by Nanny, especially the ABS. If you don't do the BUDS part of the procedure how can you be sure the Nanny part of the braking process will work properly?

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    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder View Post
    Do you know what all the BUDs process does? I don't. But after I had the brake line off the rear caliper and bled the rear brake I took it to the dealer for a BUDS check. I was thinking since Nanny is tied into the brake system there may be some calibration or resetting in BUDS that needs to be done to ensure that the VSS can do it's thing properly if it ever needs to. As I see it there are two aspects to the braking system, braking caused by pressing the pedal, and braking controlled by Nanny, especially the ABS. If you don't do the BUDS part of the procedure how can you be sure the Nanny part of the braking process will work properly?
    Are you certain the Nanny will apply the brakes?

    Nanny will unwind throttle input.

    The computer, I guess it could be deemed the Nanny causing it, will attempt to prevent wheel lockup, via the ABS controller and wheel sensors and rings.

    Never have I heard Nanny has the ability to apply the brake.

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    Very Active Member billybovine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    Are you certain the Nanny will apply the brakes?

    Nanny will unwind throttle input.

    The computer, I guess it could be deemed the Nanny causing it, will attempt to prevent wheel lockup, via the ABS controller and wheel sensors and rings.

    Never have I heard Nanny has the ability to apply the brake.
    Of course it does.

    https://youtu.be/77By0mM1qDA

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    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybovine View Post
    Of course it does.

    https://youtu.be/77By0mM1qDA
    Agree.

    Did not interpret the other guys post regarding the rear brake to be focused on stability control in extreme manuevers and working the front brakes. Nanny does not have brake control of the rear wheel, except ABS.

    There is another video also that explains all this and more a bit more in depth.

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    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    Agree.

    Did not interpret the other guys post regarding the rear brake to be focused on stability control in extreme manuevers and working the front brakes. Nanny does not have brake control of the rear wheel, except ABS.

    There is another video also that explains all this and more a bit more in depth.
    Read the sections on EBD and TCS. Note the words "It may also apply brakes..."

    VSS & EBD.jpg

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    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Your wording and discussion regarding the brakes simply misled me, especially as it mentioned the rear caliper. Sorry, my bad.

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    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    Your wording and discussion regarding the brakes simply misled me, especially as it mentioned the rear caliper. Sorry, my bad.
    Not really. I just wanted to make clear to Purple Guy that even though he has experienced no issues with brake bleeding, if he hasn't checked things with BUDs afterwards he really cannot know it there is gremlin lying in wait to mess things up when he really needs the system to function correctly.

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    Thinks out loud Jeriatric's Avatar
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    A simulated panic stop after a bleed or flush will cycle the ABS and push out the tiny bit of fluid it hoards.

    Not recommending anyone do it.

    Though, lots who have ABS bikes and prefer to do their own maintenance do.


    Identify what you have control over and find peace with what you don't.

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    Active Member RICZ's Avatar
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    While on this subject.....has anyone installed Speed Bleeders?
    Ours is a red, black and chrome 2017 F3 Limited. Bought new in 2/2019. The avatar is my first bike back in 1952, a Simplex Servi-Cycle. Photo taken at the Barber Museum.

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    I'm very interested in Speed Bleeders. I just bought my F3 and I doubt it ever had any service to the brake system (only had 2100 miles on it when I bought it). Anyone have an idea what size the bleed screws are? I'll happily be the guinea pig.
    -Steve

    2016 F3 Limited

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    Thinks out loud Jeriatric's Avatar
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    How about if you had a bleed bottle with a check valve in it, for under $27.00?

    It's a one person bleed system that works slick as a whistle.


    Identify what you have control over and find peace with what you don't.

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    Active Member RICZ's Avatar
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    I have leaned that the best way to order Speed Bleeders and get the correct size(s) is to do it by phone. Had I not phoned the order when I had my last bike, I would have ordered incorrectly. Lesson learned.
    Ours is a red, black and chrome 2017 F3 Limited. Bought new in 2/2019. The avatar is my first bike back in 1952, a Simplex Servi-Cycle. Photo taken at the Barber Museum.

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    Active Member RICZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerbear View Post
    How about if you had a bleed bottle with a check valve in it, for under $27.00?

    It's a one person bleed system that works slick as a whistle.
    So are Speed Bleeders. I started working on my bikes and cars in 1952 and for decades, I could never get a really hard pedal or lever. Then I discovered that air seeps past the bleeder threads. Someone recommended Speed Bleeders because they not only have a check valve but also a substance on the threads that provides a seal when the bleeder is loosened. I tried them and have never looked back and got those hard pedals and levers I always wanted.
    Ours is a red, black and chrome 2017 F3 Limited. Bought new in 2/2019. The avatar is my first bike back in 1952, a Simplex Servi-Cycle. Photo taken at the Barber Museum.

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    Thinks out loud Jeriatric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICZ View Post
    So are Speed Bleeders. I started working on my bikes and cars in 1952 and for decades, I could never get a really hard pedal or lever. Then I discovered that air seeps past the bleeder threads. Someone recommended Speed Bleeders because they not only have a check valve but also a substance on the threads that provides a seal when the bleeder is loosened. I tried them and have never looked back and got those hard pedals and levers I always wanted.
    I'm with you, speed bleeders are great and perform as advertised. Tossed the other method out there only as an alternative, because some, may not want to do the bleeder change out.

    Edit: In 1952 I got my first bicycle


    Identify what you have control over and find peace with what you don't.

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    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICZ View Post
    I have leaned that the best way to order Speed Bleeders and get the correct size(s) is to do it by phone. Had I not phoned the order when I had my last bike, I would have ordered incorrectly. Lesson learned.
    What year and model Spyder do you have? What was the correct Part Number you ordered?

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