ECU Flash

[308gunner]

I just got my stage 2 back and installed it and took her for a short ride. Seemed better but will have to wait until I really take her out for a spin. Does the stage 2 make her louder? Thanks, Mike

When you're able to take it out for a good ride, you're going to love it. It will be a little louder but stronger and richer sounding. If you decide to upgrade your exhaust it's going to sound great as others here has posted.. again you're going to love it.

[rdkarl]

I am having my RSS done. This will be the fourth vehicle I have had flashed. I had my Yami FZ09 (sold), a Vulcan 900, a Vulcan 1600, and a Yami Bolt SCR. The 900 cc bikes were the most impacted and most drastically changed, especially the Vulcan 900, I dont know if any you have ridden one, they are a great bike, but stock? They are a tractor, SLOW SLOW SLOW SLOW, the flash completely changed that bike.

I will do any bike I can from this point forward. I wish I could find someone to do the Triumph Thruxton I have in the barn too. I will find a shop someday, I am sure.

Not sure what year Thruxton you have, but for the Thruxton Ace that I previously owned, I purchased a flash from these guys. Well worth it.

https://www.triumphtwinpower.com/

[SNOOPY]

I have been building, racing, working and tuning automobiles for over 40 years I have not have to open up a ECU in over 20 years to tune them in the old days we would replace the prom but we just hook up to the OBD port now with the computer and special software and adapters. How do you think the companies that sell you the tuner do it the same way that monster and wicks do it. They just do not want to invest in R&D for the tuner to sell you its more money for them. The only real difference in the tune is monster/wicks are selling you a more aggressive tune one is not better than the other. Also they do not want you to wait and probably say it takes longer because you will get upset when they charge you 600 for 1/2 hours worth of work it's the same as when you take your car in they will not call you until the end of day even if the repair only took a couple of hours but charged book time which was way more time than it exactly did the average person would be upset. I now and understand how and what it takes to do a performance tune. If bikes are different than I am sorry never tuned a bike yet. In closing the last thing I would want is some one to open up my ECU and then try to seal it right that's a whole other can of worms. Like I said I do performance tunes for automobiles not bikes so if it's different I will stand corrected.

@PETOZ AUSTRALIA TOLD YOU SO.

[/COLOR]

I agree, no way they are digging into the PCM. Simply flashing a tune they developed probably years ago and sending it back.

It is their business though and everyone loves what they sell so good on them. Everyone has their thing. I know a few manufacturers of performance automotive items and the stuff they make costs a few cents on the dollar and they make millions a year on products. It is what it is.

[T.P.]

So back in July 2019, I talked to Coleman at Wick-It Performance about doing the stage 1 flash to my 1330
He asked if I rev to the 8100 redline before up shifting. At that point I would have been shifting anywhere from 6500 to 7000 rpm range so no.
he said "Boy are you missing out on a lot" he wanted me to make the new flash at the 8600rpm limit. he also told me lots of the guys are doing the 8800 to 9200 rpm redline. I took my ride out and did a couple of getting on the freeway at 8100 rpm's and thats screaming.

How many of you went to the stock 8100 rpm when up shifting befor the flash ? and how many of you go to the after flash 8600 to 9200 redline ?
I did go with the power Vision 3 unit and that increased my redline to 8400 rpm.

T.P.

[Micha.]

When the next curve is in sight, I rarely turn the engine up to 8600. Otherwise, the gear is shifted before 8000. From 7800 onwards, there really isn't so much more power.

[bcer960]

I just sent mine to Monster to get done. I kept the rev line at 8100. I can tell you I have NEVER had my rev's up that high

[krakum1967]

The fact he adjusted for the altitude is a big deal to me, it means he cares about the tune. I really have been on the fence about it as I have a PC5, but I am going to do it, he says he can enhance the PC5 relationship and mark-ably improve the V-twin...so I am getting it done.

[gom]

Krakum1967 who said he adjusted for a different altitude and did they say how they are going to do that

[Lew L]

I just sent mine to Monster to get done. I kept the rev line at 8100. I can tell you I have NEVER had my rev's up that high

You're gonna love it Ray.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

How many of you went to the stock 8100 rpm when up shifting befor the flash ? and how many of you go to the after flash 8600 to 9200 redline ?
I did go with the power Vision 3 unit and that increased my redline to 8400 rpm.

I would really be cautious about pushing the redline above the factory setting. I'm not a gas engine engineer but I'm sure there are other factors that determine redline other than ignition and fuel parameters, things like hydraulic valve float, timing chain vibration, oil volume through the bearings, and so on.

[Peter Aawen]

I would really be cautious about pushing the redline above the factory setting. I'm not a gas engine engineer but I'm sure there are other factors that determine redline other than ignition and fuel parameters, things like hydraulic valve float, timing chain vibration, oil volume through the bearings, and so on.

That's true, but even if you push the Spyder's red line out a fair bit beyond 9000 rpm, it's STILL not gonna exceed the red line that the very same engine runs in other (arguably more demanding) applications!! Most of the 'ECU Upgrades' being talked about here get nowhere near the limits or power outputs that these engines are capable of and are pushed much closer to by the 'factory' elsewhere! So I wouldn't worry too much about such a mild red line increase as those being mentioned here..... Going for a red line over saaay, 10,000 rpm tho, now THAT's probably gonna be pushing the envelope a little!

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

That's true, but even if you push the Spyder's red line out a fair bit beyond 9000 rpm, it's STILL not gonna exceed the red line that the very same engine runs in other (arguably more demanding) applications!! Most of the 'ECU Upgrades' being talked about here get nowhere near the limits or power outputs that these engines are capable of and are pushed much closer to by the 'factory' elsewhere! So I wouldn't worry too much about such a mild red line increase as those being mentioned here..... Going for a red line over saaay, 10,000 rpm tho, now THAT's probably gonna be pushing the envelope a little!

Thanks. Do any of the Spyder engines share a design or build with ultra light aircraft engines? How fast do those puppies twist propellers? Or do they maybe run slower because the load on a propeller makes it difficult to turn faster?

[Peter Aawen]

Others may have more current info on this than me, altho I do know there have been 'multi-use' engines from some of Rotax's older engine ranges (eg, the 900 Series) that've seen aircraft service, and I'm pretty sure they now sell some of their ACE engines into the aircraft industry too. I know that the aircraft engine versions run different types of trans/gearing to provide the necessary gearing to spin the props - but there's absolutely no gear changing going on once your aircraft engine is spinning the prop, not even with flappy paddles!! So it's all up to throttle control to change the prop revs, altho some do also change prop pitch to vary the way the airfloggenfan 'bites' into the air to develop/vary the prop's 'thrust' (or 'pull', if you wanna look at it that way!)

Still, whatever way you look at it, our Spyder engines really aren't anywhere near exploring their limits re revs &/or power output, and I really don't think 'reliability concerns' factored too highly in the reasoning behind the fairly significant de-tuning of our engines that's occurred on the production line!! So getting an ECU Upgrade done that lifts the max revs a little (& for these things, 1000 rpm or so really IS just a little! ) & lets the engine produce power & torque figures that are still somewhat lower than the already proven & still considered fairly conservative figures that these engines produce in other applications isn't going to be much of a risk!! Especially once you become aware of the insane limits & output figures these same engines have been fairly reliably putting out in some of the competition machines out there!!

And as an aside, is anyone else following this years Dakkar?

[bcer960]

You're gonna love it Ray.

too bad I won't get to try it till mid april...

[Dennis in Lodi]

.......
How many of you went to the stock 8100 rpm when up shifting befor the flash ? and how many of you go to the after flash 8600 to 9200 redline ?
I did go with the power Vision 3 unit and that increased my redline to 8400 rpm.

T.P.

Several of my test ECUs had the 9,200 rpm limit. Separating new SOUND from measurable PERFORMANCE really didn't pan out at the test track. Seemed to only be fractions of a second in difference in top end testing. But I tell you one thing for certain, there is a HUGE difference in transmission sounds on the automatic when shifting outside of the stock rev limit. I'm not talking good sound either.
I would only recommend the higher rev limit for manual transmission where you have better engagement control.
Also Warranty and higher rev limits don't mix as this is a recorded item in BUDS. When I traded my test RT to a dealer, two mechanics where scratching there heads on something they were seeing as part of checking the RT for trade. After they approved my RT for trade I asked what was up. They saw the 9,200 red line in the BUDS and didn't believe it was correct. Now I think the dealer mechanics will have a better clue??
Dennis

[308gunner]

too bad I won't get to try it till mid april...

On a positive note when April comes..your Spyder will be ready to run with the tune installed ..no downtime..winter is the best time to do performance upgrades if possible..you did it right...let us know when you get it back and installed it.

[bcer960]

On a positive note when April comes..your Spyder will be ready to run with the tune installed ..no downtime..winter is the best time to do performance upgrades if possible..you did it right...let us know when you get it back and installed it.

yes, thats why I picked now to do it, not in a rush to get it back. I will let you know when it gets back, but it may not get installed for a couple months. It's too cold out in the shed to do it.

[PMK]

Several of my test ECUs had the 9,200 rpm limit. Separating new SOUND from measurable PERFORMANCE really didn't pan out at the test track. Seemed to only be fractions of a second in difference in top end testing. But I tell you one thing for certain, there is a HUGE difference in transmission sounds on the automatic when shifting outside of the stock rev limit. I'm not talking good sound either.
I would only recommend the higher rev limit for manual transmission where you have better engagement control.
Also Warranty and higher rev limits don't mix as this is a recorded item in BUDS. When I traded my test RT to a dealer, two mechanics where scratching there heads on something they were seeing as part of checking the RT for trade. After they approved my RT for trade I asked what was up. They saw the 9,200 red line in the BUDS and didn't believe it was correct. Now I think the dealer mechanics will have a better clue??
Dennis

As always, excellent honest info from you.
Dennis, in your discussions with them as you went forward tuning the Spyder, was there ever any indication to build a remap that would be from idle to WOT, not only adding capability to increase power, but rather to increase efficiency / economy also.

I am a proponent that the 1330 could use more roll on power at certain times. Additionally, it could use greater efficiency far more percent of operating time. Understanding that the remaps typically are retaining stock parameters below approximately 5000 revs, makes the cost vs amount of expected use a bit steep. It becomes obvious that much of the remaps task is to obtain a WOT vs the oem not being able to attain WOT.

Since new in 2014, I suspect less than 60 seconds of engine operation have been over 6000 rpm. With cruise rpm of about 4000 / 4050 and 99% of typical ride shift points at around 4500, increased power over 5000 is not a major concern. Altering tne performance below 5000 revs would have me revisit spending the hundreds of dollars.

Simply curious.

[hypurone]

Altering tne performance below 5000 revs would have me revisit spending the hundreds of dollars.

Simply curious.

This is why I had mine done with a "tweak" to the throttle operation. I had throttle rotation sensitivity increased. It takes much less rotation now. Kind of like the old "whiskey throttles" that only needed a 1/4 turn to run thru the range. This seriously livens things up from off the line all the way thru the range! If you have never used a "quick throttle" setup or had a bike with a hyper sensitive throttle, it will be a bit of a learning curve but well worth it IMHO...
Minion!.jpg

[2dogs]

This is why I had mine done with a "tweak" to the throttle operation. I had throttle rotation sensitivity increased. It takes much less rotation now. Kind of like the old "whiskey throttles" that only needed a 1/4 turn to run thru the range. This seriously livens things up from off the line all the way thru the range! If you have never used a "quick throttle" setup or had a bike with a hyper sensitive throttle, it will be a bit of a learning curve but well worth it IMHO...
Minion!.jpg

I had 1/4 turn throttle on almost all my dirt bikes. "O" YEA!

[PMK]

This is why I had mine done with a "tweak" to the throttle operation. I had throttle rotation sensitivity increased. It takes much less rotation now. Kind of like the old "whiskey throttles" that only needed a 1/4 turn to run thru the range. This seriously livens things up from off the line all the way thru the range! If you have never used a "quick throttle" setup or had a bike with a hyper sensitive throttle, it will be a bit of a learning curve but well worth it IMHO...
Minion!.jpg

Interesting idea. As for quick turn throttle setups. My KTM 250, I modified the throttle tube from the stock 1/4 turn to well less than a 1/4 turn. Like you, had a preferred range of motion I wanted to get from idle to WOT, 1/4 was too much.

As for the Spyder. Not so much about needing a quick throttle turn, rather would prefer a revised mapping that is better from idle to WOT. The current offerings indicate improvements above 5000 revs. I can twist the grip and see over 5 or even 6000. But that is not the improvement range I am after.

[larryd]

PMK...I am a advocate of someone figuring out how to make the 89T rear sprocket set up work on our heaver and usually 2 up ridden Rt's...
MFI was working on this task...Steve had one tester in the USA that had it working but it developed shifting problems...He also has several over seas tester that I never heard the results...
Did you ever ride a F3 with the 89T factory set up??? There is a night and days difference even between the F3's with the 79T set up...
Also this was BRP's way of improving the performance on certain F3 models...
On the F3's there is a selection in the BUDs menu that they can select 79T or 89T set up...
This makes me believe that this is doable on the RT...
I have a 89T sprocket and belt waiting for this to be available...
I would be willing to install this belt and sprocket on my RT and take it to Canada for Steve to work with...(but only Jan. Feb. Mar. or Apr.) not during our limited riding summer and fall seasons here...
I also think this would be a real $$$ money maker $$$ for the entrepreneur that can accomplish this task...
I have the MFI stage 1 flash...

[fatboy]

sounds like you need stage 2

[308gunner]

PMK...I am a advocate of someone figuring out how to make the 89T rear sprocket set up work on our heaver and usually 2 up ridden Rt's...
MFI was working on this task...Steve had one tester in the USA that had it working but it developed shifting problems...He also has several over seas tester that I never heard the results...
Did you ever ride a F3 with the 89T factory set up??? There is a night and days difference even between the F3's with the 79T set up...
Also this was BRP's way of improving the performance on certain F3 models...
On the F3's there is a selection in the BUDs menu that they can select 79T or 89T set up...
This makes me believe that this is doable on the RT...
I have a 89T sprocket and belt waiting for this to be available...
I would be willing to install this belt and sprocket on my RT and take it to Canada for Steve to work with...(but only Jan. Feb. Mar. or Apr.) not during our limited riding summer and fall seasons here...
I also think the would be a real $$$ money maker $$$ for the entrepreneur that can accomplish this task...
I have the MFI stage 1 flash...

very true... im suprised that the people who own a f3 dont upgrade to an f3-sport ...all you have to do is change out the sprocket and belt from a 79T to a 89T and upgrade the buds to the 89T setting. the diffence is night and day and add a cruise control module. an F3- Sport upgrade. its easy to do too!!!!!....just a matter of money.. have you been in contact with steve?..If so...whats his answer to you going up there?

[larryd]

I haven't talked to Steve since late last spring...At that time he was hoping his over seas tester would come back...Steve said he'd be in touch if anything materialized...I will contact him in the near future and report back...larryd