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  1. #26
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Default SPYDER PLUS SIDECAR

    Quote Originally Posted by fatenhappy View Post
    Sidecars, broom broom and Pixie dust

    I was 99% sure this could be done and then just today what was able to find, but a German based company 'Kalich side cars' who specialise in what they call 'swing'type side car mounting ... In other words the bike rider rides and leans as normal, but the side car stays absolutely parallel to the road ... I won't or need the 'swing' side of this, but it does prove to me I don't need any upper, or high-mount supports forCathy's side car project.

    The other thing I really like .. if you go to their web site although written in German (which is easy enough to translate using 'MS-WORD") ... They set their 'boats' which we know as the actual side car nice and low to the ground .. may-be only 10 to 15cm or so off the ground. ... (4" or so) That'll make it fairly easy to incorporate my ideas of totally bagging the suspension to take it right to ground level so Cathy will be able to enter and exit fairly easily as we require ...

    Almost there now before starting to actually measure, cut and create ... hopefully during the next few days ..

    As an aside ; just doing the tracking and both my ECU; which has all-butlanded at the doors of Canadian based ‘Monster ECU’ for its dose of insanity or'pixie dust' which-ever way you prefer to think of it!! and, just as good, .... a couple of custom pieces of short exhaust from the UK are just about to leave there as well destination .. my place !....

    Stay tuned, it’s all happening ... Yehaa! ...
    Well I respect your DIY thinking process , but after all is said and done ....A new Gold Wing with side car will cost 1/3rd. of what the Spyder & side car is going to cost ...and the GW set-up will be SAFE ....yours will be a GUESS on the Safety thing .......... Stay safe ..... Mike

  2. #27
    Active Member cheska's Avatar
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    Default sidecar

    OK my 2 cents. Fatenhappy I give you credit for thinking out of the box and trying to get a mc unit to take your wife with you.

    Years ago when I was more energetic and wild I built at 2 different times 2 different sidecar units. The first one was a Harley

    bike with a harley sidecar I managed to find. The 2nd was a Honda Gl1200 with a off brand sidecar. Both worked reasonably well.

    But for saftey and longer distance they were not the best. Next came factory trike conversions in my opion they were 100% safer

    and better. Next came the Spdyer. Great but not what you need. For safety and enjoyment I would recommend you check out

    some manufactures which make factory sidecar units. The Russian Ural seems to be the best and has been around the longest.

    Also please drive a sidecar unit if you can because they drive horrible but can be a blast for short drives. Please remember

    these are only my thoughts and experiences. Best of luck to you and your wife. Bob
    900 Ryker Wifes

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    Well I respect your DIY thinking process , but after all is said and done ....A new Gold Wing with side car will cost 1/3rd. of what the Spyder & side car is going to cost ...and the GW set-up will be SAFE ....yours will be a GUESS on the Safety thing .......... Stay safe ..... Mike

    That's not even vaguely on the money ... This has nothing to do with cost and all about building something totally suited to my wife's requirements ... Why because I can! .. Besides I don't won't Goldwing crap hanging off the beast ... This is what I am shooting for and all is ago right now ... Just try and tell me that's not about the prettiest side car you have ever seen ..
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheska View Post
    OK my 2 cents. Fatenhappy I give you credit for thinking out of the box and trying to get a mc unit to take your wife with you.

    Years ago when I was more energetic and wild I built at 2 different times 2 different sidecar units. The first one was a Harley

    bike with a harley sidecar I managed to find. The 2nd was a Honda Gl1200 with a off brand sidecar. Both worked reasonably well.

    But for saftey and longer distance they were not the best. Next came factory trike conversions in my opion they were 100% safer

    and better. Next came the Spdyer. Great but not what you need. For safety and enjoyment I would recommend you check out

    some manufactures which make factory sidecar units. The Russian Ural seems to be the best and has been around the longest.

    Also please drive a sidecar unit if you can because they drive horrible but can be a blast for short drives. Please remember

    these are only my thoughts and experiences. Best of luck to you and your wife. Bob
    Thanks Bob ... If I knew how to put a link up here that would work I would do so but the twice I have tried in the past all I got is a black screen - I can't be bothered wasting my time on that right now .... But, in the mean time just take a moment and go onto YouTube to google up Schwenker based side cars design ....

    These are the only thing that come close to what I envisage ... As well as what they have, I have added so the thing is 'bagged' and will drop totally to the ground for my wife to get in and out.

    With respect ... If everyone just stayed with the norm, we would still be scratching our heads to see what we could do with a 'rolling stone'.

    (Certainly not getting ansy so please don't anyone take it that way ... I am just explaining) A lot may well scoff at what I am about to say and again I really don't care .... I asked the Lord to provide the Spyder for me late last year so I can do what ever he has install, and as far as I am concerned he did, as originally I had no way of affording it! .. (So again, apologies straight up to any who are not of the faith, but I am) ... If I wasn't willing to sit in it myself (as I used to say to my aviation students) ... then sure as hell I'm not putting my wife in it.
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  5. #30
    Active Member sylvester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPYD3R View Post
    heck, if they can come up with a SIDE-CAR for my little VESPA, why not for your SPYD3R as well.....

    best of luck with this project.... wish i could help...
    Dan P
    SPYD3R
    beautiful little set up had a lambretta once

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by blacklightning View Post
    The 2 in the above post, both appear to be goldwing trikes, with a sidecar.
    I wish I could suggest a way to make this happen for you, but I have no skills or expertise in this area. I truly hope you are able to make this week for you and your bride. I will be keeping up with this and wishing you both the very best.
    Mate its all good ... everything is steam rolling ahead ..

  7. #32
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    So hopefully everything is in the final stages of the planning phase for the side-car project..

    I was really heartened to have found the 'Schwenker' based side car architecture on YT. I am currently still spending further time enhancing it to what we require. I have worked things out to the point of now totally and safely adding air bag suspension to the unit. This will also allow for the passenger compartment to drop to the ground as required for Cathy as we require it. In the mean time whilst in the driving height, everything is locked for total safety.

    So in the mean time not wanting to be idle, I've been changing out my secondary muffler / silencer and aft, to something more of a straight through easier breathing system. My shock of horrors really came home when finding out by measuring with a micrometre, the inlet to the stock muffler was cut back from 49mm from the cat area, to a 42mm inlet .... (that's at the pipe entrance to flow to the pipe itself - not at the mouth entrance) .... Anyway, by my calculations, limiting the machine to 111 hp max.

    I suppose when the bike is rated to 115hp @ 7200 rpm its spot on BRP's calculations! From all my research on air flow, exhausts etc, apparently we are supposed to go down in size rather than up so as to not sacrifice back pressure, pulse effect etc.

    Anyway I am driving to-wards what is to be achieved rather than what is stock ... By my calculations I need really close to just under a 2" system so 2" it will be. That's exactly what has been installed so far, and that's what I honed in on finishing off today .... or at least started to ...

    So I got most of the exhaust cut and trial fitted yesterday and left it right there over-nite..... Today everything was supposed to be real easy..... it was supposed to be full steam ahead to finish off the main support bracket for the main muffler ... Well, that's what was intended ... What actually resulted was ... "you know when you are sure you've got exactly that peace you're after some-where and all you have to do is find it ...."That's right, the whole damn garage finally got a good clean up and sorting out" ... And, no bracket was there to be found ... anywhere ... so about 5 or 6 hours later I still had to make one .. "Idiot!" So at the close of play tonight, the new bracket has been finished, painted and drying (and that's where it will stay for a few days until it hardens) ....

    As far as the attachments ... the first is a fantastic example of a 'Schwenker' architecture side car .. I love it ... , the second is the actual design that goes into making the basic side car along these lines (minus my dropping / bagging or the actual bike attachment specs) ... the third was close of play last night and where it will remain for the next few days ... and finally ... guess what .. I haven't spoken about this at all ... these are my hub conversion fresh and back from manufacture from the standard Spyder 3*90 pcd to of all things the 'Smart' car stud pattern ... Why, because IMO, the Smart Cars have truck loads more wide wheel choices than what are available right now out there for the Spyders ...

    Am I a happy camper right now tonight ?... you bet ya!
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    Last edited by fatenhappy; 05-24-2018 at 05:52 AM.

  8. #33
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Default SIDECAR PROGRESS

    ........ I have voiced my concerns about this project ... ( from an engineering standpoint ) , but I'm VERY impressed with your muffler work ...... from the pic, it looks like you have figured a way to have your exhaust system SWIVEL in sync with the swing arm ..... very ingenious Mate ............ Mike , however I am still sending ................... Mike

  9. #34
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    I am sure you have already thought of this, but thought I would mention it anyway. I see a possible problem with the exhaust. First, it will be positioned close to your wife's left ear. So you wont want it to be very loud. Second, to fit a sidecar to a spyder, it will have to be located farther to the rear of the bike. This could mean your wife will be inhaling exhaust fumes. Ideally, you would want the muffler to exit the left side of the spyder which could be a challenge with the drive belt in the way.

    Other challenges I see are, trying to find enough structure at the rear of a spyder to securely attach a sidecar. And then there are some physics problems you will have to overcome. Not so much during acceleration, but definitely during braking.

    As a mechanical engineer, I am very interested to see what you ultimately come up with and if it works. Safety should be priority #1!!! Test your sidecar using sandbags first to see how the spyder reacts to all that weight attached to the side.

    I am not going to tell you it wont work. But there will certainly be many challenges to overcome, making the whole project very daunting. I hope you succeed. But I do agree with others, that there are better and safer alternatives to using a Spyder.

    Watching with great interest.
    2021 Sea to Sky RT , Highland green

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel The Biker View Post
    I am sure you have already thought of this, but thought I would mention it anyway. I see a possible problem with the exhaust. First, it will be positioned close to your wife's left ear. So you wont want it to be very loud. Second, to fit a sidecar to a spyder, it will have to be located farther to the rear of the bike. This could mean your wife will be inhaling exhaust fumes. Ideally, you would want the muffler to exit the left side of the spyder which could be a challenge with the drive belt in the way.

    Other challenges I see are, trying to find enough structure at the rear of a spyder to securely attach a sidecar. And then there are some physics problems you will have to overcome. Not so much during acceleration, but definitely during braking.

    As a mechanical engineer, I am very interested to see what you ultimately come up with and if it works. Safety should be priority #1!!! Test your sidecar using sandbags first to see how the spyder reacts to all that weight attached to the side.

    I am not going to tell you it wont work. But there will certainly be many challenges to overcome, making the whole project very daunting. I hope you succeed. But I do agree with others, that there are better and safer alternatives to using a Spyder.

    Watching with great interest.
    Hey Joel .. I really do appreciate your input ....

    Bingo .. this is the sort of thing I was after ... Because we are in Australia and drive RHD and not like the US on the left ... The side car actually gets mounted on our kerb side, which is the same side of the bike where the belt drive is located ...

    You have indeed made me think a bit more about the exhaust exit point and its direction at any rate ... As it is, you probably can't see it from the photo, but it is currently situated down and 'away' from the bike. I'll see how its finally positioning goes as far as the exhaust tip is situated when I get the final bracing mounted in a couple of days time after the paint 'hardens' up a bit more.

    A longer term goal is to manufacture and fit up a complete 2" length tuned exhaust system to the bike .... There may possibly even be a turbo fit .... It has been done using the aero turbos from Canada in the past ,,, but that would be some time away as yet ...

    It took a lot of research, but as far as the actual mounting up goes, the way the German's and other Europeans do it, is build and add a complete custom sub frame to the bike, secure that in place and then mount everything off to the side-car unit from the sub frame . They then anchor off that with 'heim' joints and adjust things up accordingly and so effectively 'spreading the load' .... Works very effectively for them so I see no need to try to improve on what they have already perfected ... As an extra bonus straight off the pillion foot peg points are going to be removed so they are also available .... cheers again ...

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatenhappy View Post
    And no, you are reading this correctly .... What's the possiblity of mounting up a side-car to my F3-T ... Anyone ever done it?

    I'm a 66 year old lower left leg amputee .... love riding, always have. February just gone this year, I splashed out and bought my latest ride, a 2017 F3-T in the SE6 variant ... so all paddle shift auto - fantastic.

    My wife has had MS for the passed 35 plus years.... (and in any case, being an ex nurse she is far from partial to motorcycles at all at any time ... In her words .... she has seen first hand all the damage that can come from them) .. Despite this I have always quietly tried to coherse, poke and and gently 'push' her towards relaxing and join me on any of the bikes over the years, but always to no avail.

    Taking this into account I've still always had it in the back of my mind to some how, totally include Cathy as much as possible with this current ride as well. I was 99% sure when buying 'any' traditional bike, the pillion set up even physically for her could not work.

    My quandry also right now is Cathy's MS is to the stage where she cannot self support very well and is extremely tentatively of taking more than just a couple of steps at all, unsupported.

    So this has still been going over and over in my mind and for no particular reason, even more so of late.

    Then just the other day and again for no particular reason, I thought ... I wonder if it would be possible to mount up a side car to the new Spyder ... To me this would be the perfect solution ... Previously and to tell the absolute truth, I had not even vaguely given any side car option a thought. I guess you just very rarely see them about, if at all these days.

    Leading up to this revelation I now have Cathy to the stage where she would be keen to come along (so she now says) if I can find a way. To me the side car thought would be fantastic as all I need her to do would be sit in there and let the day go past and 'enjoy the ride'

    Anyone had any experience with this type of 'adaption' for the Spyder ... Cheers and thanks in advance

    Just a heads up with a quick edit ... I had also posted this same thread in the how to do it yourself section also looking for alternate comments from there. It appears I am not allowed to comment on more than one of the same thread .. fare enough ... also as an aside we are not allow to tow folks in a trailer in Australia end of story .. cheers and thanks again for your inputs ...
    Well, it's been a couple of weeks of silence but everything has been literally ago and 'burning the mid-night oil' most nights to make sure things are right the first time.

    Got to admit, I don't have things 110% right, just at the minute but probably at least a minimum of 95% the way there …

    I am basing everything on the European - 'Schwenker - Swing - Sidecar' system ... These sidecars are as close as I have ever found for a suitable basis to my thoughts ... I

    All guns are blazing so the unit drops totally to ground level ... (this has been the total hold up in the design) ... all so as to service Cathy's MS as best I can …

    Maybe another week or two and I should be right to build the initial 'trial' mock up before the real thing .... (I would prefer to get everything sorted right at the get go rather than going back, time and time again) ... This sort of things reminds me a lot of doing trials with aircraft mods ....

  12. #37
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    Default sidecar guru

    Hey buddy, for what it is worth, there is a sidecar guru in Washinton Named Jay at Dauntless Sidecars and he truly is amazing. It would not hurt to pick his brain a bit, he is old like us and has many mile on sidecars. His shop build custom rigs. Project looks doable. Tim

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim1 View Post
    Hey buddy, for what it is worth, there is a sidecar guru in Washinton Named Jay at Dauntless Sidecars and he truly is amazing. It would not hurt to pick his brain a bit, he is old like us and has many mile on sidecars. His shop build custom rigs. Project looks doable. Tim
    Appreciate your thoughts Tim … My only problem with the suggestion is I am based in Queensland Australia … However, I will still have sniff about and see if he has anything listed on the web .. thanks again !

  14. #39
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Default side- car project

    Quote Originally Posted by Joel The Biker View Post
    I am sure you have already thought of this, but thought I would mention it anyway. I see a possible problem with the exhaust. First, it will be positioned close to your wife's left ear. So you wont want it to be very loud. Second, to fit a sidecar to a spyder, it will have to be located farther to the rear of the bike. This could mean your wife will be inhaling exhaust fumes. Ideally, you would want the muffler to exit the left side of the spyder which could be a challenge with the drive belt in the way.

    Other challenges I see are, trying to find enough structure at the rear of a spyder to securely attach a sidecar. And then there are some physics problems you will have to overcome. Not so much during acceleration, but definitely during braking.

    As a mechanical engineer, I am very interested to see what you ultimately come up with and if it works. Safety should be priority #1!!! Test your sidecar using sandbags first to see how the spyder reacts to all that weight attached to the side.

    I am not going to tell you it wont work. But there will certainly be many challenges to overcome, making the whole project very daunting. I hope you succeed. But I do agree with others, that there are better and safer alternatives to using a Spyder.

    Watching with great interest.
    Joel, on this topic you are .... I'm not a " Mechanical engineer " , but I have created many items ( check my album on the 917 project car ) and I would be last person to throw water on an idea ..... there are usually ways to get an IDEA to a Physical reality .....and Elon Musk and or Bill Gates could get this done .... But I think the OP is probably not in that financial company ...... I changed the shock ANGLES of all my Spyders by creating a bolt on bracket that was formed to fit the frame area of the shock top. Quite a few people have told me what I did was extremely dangerous and foolish ( not the two BRP Techs who drove my Spyder though ) the change was only 18 degree's ..... what the OP is trying for ... to me is mind-boggling, and I believe almost anything can be worked out. But what the OP is trying to do is beyond a normal amount of development $$$ .... look what ISCI charges for their Spyder handbrake system ..... Does anyone believe the parts are worth $ 1300.00. I have posted to the OP my concerns, so this isn't a roundabout way of slamming Him..... I have genuine concerns about HER safety.... A few or a few hundred miles with sandbags is only going to prove it didn't FAIL within that mileage. There would be no guarantee 10 miles further and the sidecar wouldn't suffer a catastrophic collapse. I hope the OP reads this post and maybe He will have a new prospective about the possibilities of it's construction ....... Later .... Mike
    Last edited by BLUEKNIGHT911; 07-30-2018 at 10:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    Joel, on this topic you are .... I'm not a " Mechanical engineer " , but I have created many items ( check my album on the 917 project car ) and I would be last person to throw water on an idea ..... there are usually ways to get an IDEA to a Physical reality .....and Elon Musk and or Bill Gates could get this done .... But I think the OP is probably not in that financial company ...... I changed the shock ANGLES of all my Spyders by creating a bolt on bracket that was formed to fit the frame area of the shock top. Quite a few people have told me what I did was extremely dangerous and foolish ( not the two BRP Techs who drove my Spyder though ) the change was only 18 degree's ..... what the OP is trying for ... to me is mind-boggling, and I believe almost anything can be worked out. But what the OP is trying to do is beyond a normal amount of development $$$ .... look what ISCI charges for their Spyder handbrake system ..... Does anyone believe the parts are worth $ 1300.00. I have posted to the OP my concerns, so this isn't a roundabout way of slamming Him..... I have genuine concerns about HER safety.... A few or a few hundred miles with sandbags is only going to prove it didn't FAIL within that mileage. There would be no guarantee 10 miles further and the sidecar wouldn't suffer a catastrophic collapse. I hope the OP reads this post and maybe He will have a new prospective about the possibilities of it's construction ....... Later .... Mike
    Thanks Mike … (and say no more !)

    Here are three good reasons why I KNOW I can do this by modifying, building and adapting a version of the Polish ‘Swenker’ side car setup ...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GntsHZY6KPQ … The German giant BMW know it’s possible as shown here … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=235TVSBjIlY&t=106s Then another ‘Swenker ‘adaption … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m28XZXu1_7Y
    Never say never ! ... I used to say to my Aviation based students ... “If you are notwilling to swap seats with the passenger looking down at you, don’t release the aircraft” … For the greater part of my adult life I was based around a highly safety based industry. Just because I am now retired does not mean my ethos has changed one little bit !
    Last edited by fatenhappy; 07-31-2018 at 03:44 AM.

  16. #41
    SpyderLovers Sponsor cptjam's Avatar
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    Default WOW

    I’m impressed with your project! I don’t doubt you will make it safe, if it is possible.
    My first thought was to swap the rear end with a IRS, from a Trike manufacturer. Extend the one side of that transaxle to support the sidecar. I’m hoping your plan works out. If not, that K1600GT with sidecar looks perfect for taking her for a ride!
    Joe Meyer



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    Default A fit for both you and the wife

    If you're not totally attached to your F3, maybe given your wife's opinions on motorcycles and her health...have you considered getting a slingshot. Not sure given her health if she would have difficulties with getting in and out.
    Wishing you both a happy medium.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 04-16-2022 at 11:56 PM. Reason: eife's = wife's ;-)

  18. #43
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    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
    2015 Canam Spyder F3-S SE6
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    Tufskinz Peel & Stick Tank Protector Pad (Glossy doomed carbon)

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  20. #45
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirrad View Post
    Well they look great on PAPER .... and I think the OP never made any headway with His Dream .... He hasn't been on this site since Nov. of 2018 .... I think that says where His project has progressed to ..... JMHO .... Mike
    Last edited by BLUEKNIGHT911; 04-17-2022 at 09:30 AM.

  21. #46
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    Hopefully he got a nice little convertible sports car and flipped the top down, and is riding the heck out it!!
    2012 RTL , Pearl

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