What's the possibility of mounting up a side car to my F3-T .. Anyone ever done it?

[fatenhappy]

And no, you are reading this correctly .... What's the possiblity of mounting up a side-car to my F3-T ... Anyone ever done it?

I'm a 66 year old lower left leg amputee .... love riding, always have. February just gone this year, I splashed out and bought my latest ride, a 2017 F3-T in the SE6 variant ... so all paddle shift auto - fantastic.

My wife has had MS for the passed 35 plus years.... (and in any case, being an ex nurse she is far from partial to motorcycles at all at any time ... In her words .... she has seen first hand all the damage that can come from them) .. Despite this I have always quietly tried to coherse, poke and and gently 'push' her towards relaxing and join me on any of the bikes over the years, but always to no avail.

Taking this into account I've still always had it in the back of my mind to some how, totally include Cathy as much as possible with this current ride as well. I was 99% sure when buying 'any' traditional bike, the pillion set up even physically for her could not work.

My quandry also right now is Cathy's MS is to the stage where she cannot self support very well and is extremely tentatively of taking more than just a couple of steps at all, unsupported.

So this has still been going over and over in my mind and for no particular reason, even more so of late.

Then just the other day and again for no particular reason, I thought ... I wonder if it would be possible to mount up a side car to the new Spyder ... To me this would be the perfect solution ... Previously and to tell the absolute truth, I had not even vaguely given any side car option a thought. I guess you just very rarely see them about, if at all these days.

Leading up to this revelation I now have Cathy to the stage where she would be keen to come along (so she now says) if I can find a way. To me the side car thought would be fantastic as all I need her to do would be sit in there and let the day go past and 'enjoy the ride'

Anyone had any experience with this type of 'adaption' for the Spyder ... Cheers and thanks in advance

Just a heads up with a quick edit ... I had also posted this same thread in the how to do it yourself section also looking for alternate comments from there. It appears I am not allowed to comment on more than one of the same thread .. fare enough ... also as an aside we are not allow to tow folks in a trailer in Australia end of story .. cheers and thanks again for your inputs ...

[fatenhappy]

I am taking this so seriously that here are a couple of bits and pieces that say to me ... here in Australia 'the side car project' could very well be a goer .... and definitely doable ....

So I went through the workshop manual 'Chassis' area as well as had a good squiz on the net ..

IMO so far, plenty of chassis to work with and the 'proposed approximate scale dimensions also say the same ...

The maximum width for a registerable vehicle here in Queensland Australia is 2440mm or 8 feet in the old money ...

My initial current calculations put my proposal at really close to 2170mm in width .... The stock length of the F3-T is 2596 mm or 8.83ft (again in the old money) ...

I am also attaching a few of my references ...

All input yea or na as long as constructive appreciated !

[Philrs]

Happy.

Sorry I can't help here. But I wish you the best of luck with this and am looking forward to following your thread.

Please update as you progress if you can


Phil
Bkfld ca.

[Chupaca]

Looks like you are close to making this happen for your lovely wife. Would love to see you both out there.. keep us up to date on your progress.

[sylvester]

I would also check and see if it will change the auto adjust on the suspension i would also say your tire ware will change some but i think it could work i would check with BRP for warranty and frame issues. Good luck and let us know how it works out

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

.......... I think so Far out of the box I'm probably not even on the planet most of the time ( visit my Albums, especially the 917 project car ) ... but this idea is a real nightmare .... It took the BRP ( + others ) years to work the bugs out of the Spyder frame & suspension alone and you think adding a sidecar is doable .....I'm a die-hard DIY'er ( 80 plus mods to me 14 RT ).... I really wish you all the best and pray for your's and the Mrs. safety ....... jmho .... Mike

[SPYD3R]

heck, if they can come up with a SIDE-CAR for my little VESPA, why not for your SPYD3R as well.....
SAM_1283.jpg SAM_1282 (1).jpg SAM_1284 (1).jpg SAM_1285.jpg
best of luck with this project.... wish i could help...
Dan P
SPYD3R

[fatenhappy]

.......... I think so Far out of the box I'm probably not even on the planet most of the time ( visit my Albums, especially the 917 project car ) ... but this idea is a real nightmare .... It took the BRP ( + others ) years to work the bugs out of the Spyder frame & suspension alone and you think adding a sidecar is doable .....I'm a die-hard DIY'er ( 80 plus mods to me 14 RT ).... I really wish you all the best and pray for your's and the Mrs. safety ....... jmho .... Mike

There is no way in hell I will sit my little lovely in this if I ever though I was creating a disaster just waiting to happen ... Besides I'm not too proud to say I love my God and if that's his wish, then who am I too argue ! I ask for his guidance everyday and forever been up to my thoughts with safety within the Aviation industry. I see no reason why anything will change now. In that field everything had to be signed and counter over-signed for ... Amen brother !

[fatenhappy]

I would also check and see if it will change the auto adjust on the suspension i would also say your tire ware will change some but i think it could work i would check with BRP for warranty and frame issues. Good luck and let us know how it works out

Thanks Sylvester ... (Tongue in cheek as we say over here) I am willing to sweep the warranty issues under the carpet to get this up and going ... The more I become engaged with this the more I am convinced it will work ...

As added incentive I remembered today from just doing the initial rego a couple of months back here in Queensland (Qld) Aust., there is also a whopping difference for our yearly registration costing of $200 per year as to whether I register the Spyder as pillion carrying capable or solo ... Then again it struck me ...

There is nothing stopping me from making changes to the F3 in the mean time. However, if I register it as a solo from next year, I obviously have to remove everything pillion and in doing so in the mean time. I then have a perfect place to link in one of the slave support arms ....

Choo choo here we come ...

[MercerLake]

I am taking this so seriously that here are a couple of bits and pieces that say to me ... here in Australia 'the side car project' could very well be a goer .... and definitely doable ....

So I went through the workshop manual 'Chassis' area as well as had a good squiz on the net ..

IMO so far, plenty of chassis to work with and the 'proposed approximate scale dimensions also say the same ...

The maximum width for a registerable vehicle here in Queensland Australia is 2440mm or 8 feet in the old money ...

My initial current calculations put my proposal at really close to 2170mm in width .... The stock length of the F3-T is 2596 mm or 8.83ft (again in the old money) ...

I am also attaching a few of my references ...

All input yea or na as long as constructive appreciated !

A little money, and a lot of love can accomplish anything!I think if you remove the side case that would narrow the track and affect the steering less. You should be able to attach to the frame in several point with flexible couplings to reduce the effect of the side car on the ride. A ridged mounting would likely be very rough to ride for both of you. As MS progresses she may be in a wheelchair eventually so I'd consider a platform on the side car frame rather than just a saddle. You obviously are putting a lot of thought into this project along with love. I wish you well and please keep us posted. Some Mechanical Engineers with CAD experience may be able to help you also????

[fatenhappy]

A little money, and a lot of love can accomplish anything!I think if you remove the side case that would narrow the track and affect the steering less. You should be able to attach to the frame in several point with flexible couplings to reduce the effect of the side car on the ride. A ridged mounting would likely be very rough to ride for both of you. As MS progresses she may be in a wheelchair eventually so I'd consider a platform on the side car frame rather than just a saddle. You obviously are putting a lot of thought into this project along with love. I wish you well and please keep us posted. Some Mechanical Engineers with CAD experience may be able to help you also????

This is in fact the one area I am still mulling over .... i.e. making it really easy for Cathy to just 'swing' herself around side ways. Whether that involves a completely opening top section or what ever I just don't know right now .. I am pretty sure there will have to be a Mk1, a Mk2, a Mk3 model etc and so on till its 100% suited to her requirements ...

[fatenhappy]

A little money, and a lot of love can accomplish anything!I think if you remove the side case that would narrow the track and affect the steering less. You should be able to attach to the frame in several point with flexible couplings to reduce the effect of the side car on the ride. A ridged mounting would likely be very rough to ride for both of you. As MS progresses she may be in a wheelchair eventually so I'd consider a platform on the side car frame rather than just a saddle. You obviously are putting a lot of thought into this project along with love. I wish you well and please keep us posted. Some Mechanical Engineers with CAD experience may be able to help you also????

Sidecars, broom broom and Pixie dust

I was 99% sure this could be done and then just today what was able to find, but a German based company 'Kalich side cars' who specialise in what they call 'swing'type side car mounting ... In other words the bike rider rides and leans as normal, but the side car stays absolutely parallel to the road ... I won't or need the 'swing' side of this, but it does prove to me I don't need any upper, or high-mount supports forCathy's side car project.

The other thing I really like .. if you go to their web site although written in German (which is easy enough to translate using 'MS-WORD") ... They set their 'boats' which we know as the actual side car nice and low to the ground .. may-be only 10 to 15cm or so off the ground. ... (4" or so) That'll make it fairly easy to incorporate my ideas of totally bagging the suspension to take it right to ground level so Cathy will be able to enter and exit fairly easily as we require ...

Almost there now before starting to actually measure, cut and create ... hopefully during the next few days ..

As an aside ; just doing the tracking and both my ECU; which has all-butlanded at the doors of Canadian based ‘Monster ECU’ for its dose of insanity or'pixie dust' which-ever way you prefer to think of it!! and, just as good, .... a couple of custom pieces of short exhaust from the UK are just about to leave there as well destination .. my place !....

Stay tuned, it’s all happening ... Yehaa! ...

[PMK]

Sidecars, broom broom and Pixie dust

I was 99% sure this could be done and then just today what was able to find, but a German based company 'Kalich side cars' who specialise in what they call 'swing'type side car mounting ... In other words the bike rider rides and leans as normal, but the side car stays absolutely parallel to the road ... I won't or need the 'swing' side of this, but it does prove to me I don't need any upper, or high-mount supports forCathy's side car project.

The other thing I really like .. if you go to their web site although written in German (which is easy enough to translate using 'MS-WORD") ... They set their 'boats' which we know as the actual side car nice and low to the ground .. may-be only 10 to 15cm or so off the ground. ... (4" or so) That'll make it fairly easy to incorporate my ideas of totally bagging the suspension to take it right to ground level so Cathy will be able to enter and exit fairly easily as we require ...

Almost there now before starting to actually measure, cut and create ... hopefully during the next few days ..

As an aside ; just doing the tracking and both my ECU; which has all-butlanded at the doors of Canadian based ‘Monster ECU’ for its dose of insanity or'pixie dust' which-ever way you prefer to think of it!! and, just as good, .... a couple of custom pieces of short exhaust from the UK are just about to leave there as well destination .. my place !....

Stay tuned, it’s all happening ... Yehaa! ...

Did you notice how they kindly moderated our discussion off of the FB group. Message me, I have some ideas for making this work very well.

[wicked2]

If you're not totally attached to your F3, maybe given your wife's opinions on motorcycles and her health...have you considered getting a slingshot. Not sure given her health if she would have difficulties with getting in and out.
Wishing you both a happy medium.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Sidecars, broom broom and Pixie dust

I was 99% sure this could be done and then just today what was able to find, but a German based company 'Kalich side cars' who specialise in what they call 'swing'type side car mounting ... In other words the bike rider rides and leans as normal, but the side car stays absolutely parallel to the road ... I won't or need the 'swing' side of this, but it does prove to me I don't need any upper, or high-mount supports forCathy's side car project.

The other thing I really like .. if you go to their web site although written in German (which is easy enough to translate using 'MS-WORD") ... They set their 'boats' which we know as the actual side car nice and low to the ground .. may-be only 10 to 15cm or so off the ground. ... (4" or so) That'll make it fairly easy to incorporate my ideas of totally bagging the suspension to take it right to ground level so Cathy will be able to enter and exit fairly easily as we require ...

Almost there now before starting to actually measure, cut and create ... hopefully during the next few days ..

As an aside ; just doing the tracking and both my ECU; which has all-butlanded at the doors of Canadian based ‘Monster ECU’ for its dose of insanity or'pixie dust' which-ever way you prefer to think of it!! and, just as good, .... a couple of custom pieces of short exhaust from the UK are just about to leave there as well destination .. my place !....

Stay tuned, it’s all happening ... Yehaa! ...

Well I respect your DIY thinking process , but after all is said and done ....A new Gold Wing with side car will cost 1/3rd. of what the Spyder & side car is going to cost ...and the GW set-up will be SAFE ....yours will be a GUESS on the Safety thing .......... Stay safe ..... Mike

[cheska]

OK my 2 cents. Fatenhappy I give you credit for thinking out of the box and trying to get a mc unit to take your wife with you.

Years ago when I was more energetic and wild I built at 2 different times 2 different sidecar units. The first one was a Harley

bike with a harley sidecar I managed to find. The 2nd was a Honda Gl1200 with a off brand sidecar. Both worked reasonably well.

But for saftey and longer distance they were not the best. Next came factory trike conversions in my opion they were 100% safer

and better. Next came the Spdyer. Great but not what you need. For safety and enjoyment I would recommend you check out

some manufactures which make factory sidecar units. The Russian Ural seems to be the best and has been around the longest.

Also please drive a sidecar unit if you can because they drive horrible but can be a blast for short drives. Please remember

these are only my thoughts and experiences. Best of luck to you and your wife. Bob

[fatenhappy]

Well I respect your DIY thinking process , but after all is said and done ....A new Gold Wing with side car will cost 1/3rd. of what the Spyder & side car is going to cost ...and the GW set-up will be SAFE ....yours will be a GUESS on the Safety thing .......... Stay safe ..... Mike

That's not even vaguely on the money ... This has nothing to do with cost and all about building something totally suited to my wife's requirements ... Why because I can! .. Besides I don't won't Goldwing crap hanging off the beast ... This is what I am shooting for and all is ago right now ... Just try and tell me that's not about the prettiest side car you have ever seen ..

[fatenhappy]

And no, you are reading this correctly .... What's the possiblity of mounting up a side-car to my F3-T ... Anyone ever done it?

I'm a 66 year old lower left leg amputee .... love riding, always have. February just gone this year, I splashed out and bought my latest ride, a 2017 F3-T in the SE6 variant ... so all paddle shift auto - fantastic.

My wife has had MS for the passed 35 plus years.... (and in any case, being an ex nurse she is far from partial to motorcycles at all at any time ... In her words .... she has seen first hand all the damage that can come from them) .. Despite this I have always quietly tried to coherse, poke and and gently 'push' her towards relaxing and join me on any of the bikes over the years, but always to no avail.

Taking this into account I've still always had it in the back of my mind to some how, totally include Cathy as much as possible with this current ride as well. I was 99% sure when buying 'any' traditional bike, the pillion set up even physically for her could not work.

My quandry also right now is Cathy's MS is to the stage where she cannot self support very well and is extremely tentatively of taking more than just a couple of steps at all, unsupported.

So this has still been going over and over in my mind and for no particular reason, even more so of late.

Then just the other day and again for no particular reason, I thought ... I wonder if it would be possible to mount up a side car to the new Spyder ... To me this would be the perfect solution ... Previously and to tell the absolute truth, I had not even vaguely given any side car option a thought. I guess you just very rarely see them about, if at all these days.

Leading up to this revelation I now have Cathy to the stage where she would be keen to come along (so she now says) if I can find a way. To me the side car thought would be fantastic as all I need her to do would be sit in there and let the day go past and 'enjoy the ride'

Anyone had any experience with this type of 'adaption' for the Spyder ... Cheers and thanks in advance

I had sort of put this photo to the back of my mind from a little while ago when first starting to do the research on this ...

These are Keijis 2 trikes with side cars .... The one on the left is a H_D tri-glide 'Electra' and the one on the right .. well I'll leave that up you to try to figure out ...(colourful character) ... My point is ... Yep, this can be done ... probably an extension to that should be ... we can't let the H_D riders have all the glory ?

[blacklightning]

The 2 in the above post, both appear to be goldwing trikes, with a sidecar.
I wish I could suggest a way to make this happen for you, but I have no skills or expertise in this area. I truly hope you are able to make this week for you and your bride. I will be keeping up with this and wishing you both the very best.

[fatenhappy]

The 2 in the above post, both appear to be goldwing trikes, with a sidecar.
I wish I could suggest a way to make this happen for you, but I have no skills or expertise in this area. I truly hope you are able to make this week for you and your bride. I will be keeping up with this and wishing you both the very best.

Mate its all good ... everything is steam rolling ahead ..

[fatenhappy]

So hopefully everything is in the final stages of the planning phase for the side-car project..

I was really heartened to have found the 'Schwenker' based side car architecture on YT. I am currently still spending further time enhancing it to what we require. I have worked things out to the point of now totally and safely adding air bag suspension to the unit. This will also allow for the passenger compartment to drop to the ground as required for Cathy as we require it. In the mean time whilst in the driving height, everything is locked for total safety.

So in the mean time not wanting to be idle, I've been changing out my secondary muffler / silencer and aft, to something more of a straight through easier breathing system. My shock of horrors really came home when finding out by measuring with a micrometre, the inlet to the stock muffler was cut back from 49mm from the cat area, to a 42mm inlet .... (that's at the pipe entrance to flow to the pipe itself - not at the mouth entrance) .... Anyway, by my calculations, limiting the machine to 111 hp max.

I suppose when the bike is rated to 115hp @ 7200 rpm its spot on BRP's calculations! From all my research on air flow, exhausts etc, apparently we are supposed to go down in size rather than up so as to not sacrifice back pressure, pulse effect etc.

Anyway I am driving to-wards what is to be achieved rather than what is stock ... By my calculations I need really close to just under a 2" system so 2" it will be. That's exactly what has been installed so far, and that's what I honed in on finishing off today .... or at least started to ...

So I got most of the exhaust cut and trial fitted yesterday and left it right there over-nite..... Today everything was supposed to be real easy..... it was supposed to be full steam ahead to finish off the main support bracket for the main muffler ... Well, that's what was intended ... What actually resulted was ... "you know when you are sure you've got exactly that peace you're after some-where and all you have to do is find it ...."That's right, the whole damn garage finally got a good clean up and sorting out" ... And, no bracket was there to be found ... anywhere ... so about 5 or 6 hours later I still had to make one .. "Idiot!" So at the close of play tonight, the new bracket has been finished, painted and drying (and that's where it will stay for a few days until it hardens) ....

As far as the attachments ... the first is a fantastic example of a 'Schwenker' architecture side car .. I love it ... , the second is the actual design that goes into making the basic side car along these lines (minus my dropping / bagging or the actual bike attachment specs) ... the third was close of play last night and where it will remain for the next few days ... and finally ... guess what .. I haven't spoken about this at all ... these are my hub conversion fresh and back from manufacture from the standard Spyder 3*90 pcd to of all things the 'Smart' car stud pattern ... Why, because IMO, the Smart Cars have truck loads more wide wheel choices than what are available right now out there for the Spyders ...

Am I a happy camper right now tonight ?... you bet ya!

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

........ I have voiced my concerns about this project ... ( from an engineering standpoint ) , but I'm VERY impressed with your muffler work ...... from the pic, it looks like you have figured a way to have your exhaust system SWIVEL in sync with the swing arm ..... very ingenious Mate ............ Mike , however I am still sending ................... Mike

[Joel The Biker]

I am sure you have already thought of this, but thought I would mention it anyway. I see a possible problem with the exhaust. First, it will be positioned close to your wife's left ear. So you wont want it to be very loud. Second, to fit a sidecar to a spyder, it will have to be located farther to the rear of the bike. This could mean your wife will be inhaling exhaust fumes. Ideally, you would want the muffler to exit the left side of the spyder which could be a challenge with the drive belt in the way.

Other challenges I see are, trying to find enough structure at the rear of a spyder to securely attach a sidecar. And then there are some physics problems you will have to overcome. Not so much during acceleration, but definitely during braking.

As a mechanical engineer, I am very interested to see what you ultimately come up with and if it works. Safety should be priority #1!!! Test your sidecar using sandbags first to see how the spyder reacts to all that weight attached to the side.

I am not going to tell you it wont work. But there will certainly be many challenges to overcome, making the whole project very daunting. I hope you succeed. But I do agree with others, that there are better and safer alternatives to using a Spyder.

Watching with great interest.

[Peter Aawen]

Just mulling this over a little, & a couple of grey cells collided & went into auto gibber..... but maybe this might help your cogitation just a little. I've seen an RT down this way that had the entire LH Pannier removed basically cut off from the outside edge of the Pillion's LH handgrip assy, & a wheelchair rack affixed in place of that pannier.... and I reckon I've seen a pic of a similar RT that BRP had modified to install a motorised wheelchair lifter for a disabled Veteran. Bearing that in mind, I don't believe the F3-T's are really all that much different wrt their built in panniers, so maybe if you looked into taking the LH Pannier off in much the same way.... that should let you get the outfit tucked in closer to the thrust centreline by about 100-150mms or so, maybe even more, and thereby significantly reduce the drag & steering problems that fitting a chair would normally add. Just a thought at his stage, but still!

While I was thinking along those lines, pondering on the issues it could raise up front with steering etc, I thought that maybe if you use the rear-most front suspension frame mounting points (Upper? Lower? Both??) to secure a trailing link projecting out & back in order to locate the front end of your proposed outfits outrigger wheel, so you should be able to allow for enough 'adjustments' in the outrigger's wheel alignment (toe in/out etc) to help fix any tracking or steering issues. I alreadh discovered that it wasn't all that hard to 'convert' the OE frame end front suspension mounting points in order to make the front end a whole lot more 'fine-tunable' (snail screws & eccentric washers might be old hat, but hey, they work!) so I don't think the tracking & wheel alignment changes you'd need to sort would be too hard to overcome. Heck, make the outfits' outer skin or overall shape similar to just the LH half of the shape you've already drawn, tuck it right in close to where the LH pannier is (or was, if you remove it!) & you could very nearly slot most of the extra bulk in effectively behind the LH front wheel, with the outrigger wheel being the widest point of the whole lot but angled & suspended so that it doesn't add any significant drag or any significant tendency to 'fly' on hard LH turns.... it might add a little to your 'tightest turning circle' that way tho, but the extra inboard weight could make for 'rocket sled on rails' turns, & if you tie the chair suspension into the main bike's suspension with a supersized BajaRon Bar to transfer suspension compression, you might even get the same impact turning right too!! Get it right & there'd be no way you'd ever lift the inside front wheel again, whichever way you turn!!

This could be verrrry innnnterrresting, and a whole lotta fun too!! But could we raise it 150mm & stick on a set of knobbly muddies or off road tires to get it out & hit the fire tracks??

[bscrive]

Will the laws in Australia allow you to have 4 wheels. It probably would not fall under the law for trailers, since it will carry a passenger. Something to check before you get too far into it.