Prospective new Spyder rider-couple of questions, please?

[BoxyLady]

Hi, I rode V-Rods for several years, but after a high-side accident, I stepped away from riding. My husband is on his Ducati Xdiavel and Softail CVO all the time, and I want to get back out there on the road.

I am seriously thinking of the Spyder being my entry back into riding as it eliminates or reduces some of the things that can happen on two wheels.

Just beginning my search for a new 2017 or 2018 model, and I have a couple of questions:

*for those who have experience with two-wheel motorcycles, is the $75 Spyder two day training class a necessity before owning one? I have read all of the posts I can find here for new Spyder riders, am very familiar with the difference in handling dynamics (from a reading perspective, not actual practice, of course) and the tips and tricks for learning the "Spyder difference". My thought was to just go out to a dealer and test ride a F3-S and F3-T to find out which fits and works best for me. I ask this because the nearest class is about a 2.5 hour drive from our home.

*One item I have not seen in my travels of this site regards handling around objects in the road, or dodging road imperfections. are there tips for this? Obviously, splitting the object between the two front wheels won't work. Do you just have to remember to just miss the object on either the right side of the left wheel or left side of the right wheel to help ensure you don't roll over it with the rear center wheel?

*finally, manual or semi-auto transmission. I fully get that this can be a personal choice, but I have read a few reviews that state the semi-auto might be the favored trans for the Spyder, but they didn't explain why. I am also wondering if the semi-auto handles throttle blip on downshifts-I assume it does. We drive only manual shift autos and prefer that set up, but was wondering if there is something specific to the Spyder and how it operates and handles that might make the semi-auto more appropriate?

Thanks very much!

Carolyn

[trobbins27]

Welcome to the Spyder Community!

Going to do my best to answer your questions.

1. Since you have ridden motorcycles before I assume you already have your M endorsement on your license. With that said, I would say that taking the spyder training class is not mandatory before owning a Spyder but I am sure most would agree it is a really good idea to do it if you can afford it and have the time to! Also, good call on going to the dealer to test ride before buying

2. Object avoidance on the road is something of a challenge because as you have pointed out the 3 wheel setup makes it impossible to split with the front two wheels without running it over with the back wheel. Mainly I just go over it if it is something minor. Other things like road kill (dead squirrel, animal, etc) I do my best to just avoid it all together if possible.

3. You are correct in saying that most prefer the semi-automatic. For many it just takes all the mechanics out of the ride such as having to operate a clutch, etc. There is a paddle shifter on the left handle bar that you just tap to upshift. You do not have to downshift as the computer will do that for you however you can still do it manually if you wish. Past that, as you said it just comes down to rider preference if you still want the full "motorcycle experience" with the manual.

I hope this helps you and I am sure others will chime in as well with their thoughts. Good Luck!

[Highwayman2013]

Taking a class would probably speed up your learning curve. The semi-auto is the most popular transmission option on spyders. Yes it blips the throttle on downshifts and cuts throttle on upshifts. You upshift manually with the paddle and the trans auto downshifts or you can do it manually. You can probably get a better deal on a 2017 right now. The F3T has a longer wheelbase than the F3S and integrated bags plus an air bag to help the rear shock. You dodge road imperfections by either going around or getting the object between the inside of the front tire and the inside of the rear tire. BRP recommends missing with the fronts and rolling over with the rear. I still ride both but am looking at getting an F3 in some form in the next couple years. I hope this helps.

[CA Railwhale]

Splitting obstructions is a learned skill. You will learn just how close to the front tire the obstacle can be to miss the rear tire. It takes a little while to get right. As for the manual or semi-automatic, I have a 2015 F3 SM6. The clutch was always heavy and after getting tennis elbow, my doctor said I had to do something about that. I had the dealer install the vacuum assist components and now the clutch is light and the bike is easier to get into neutral. It cost about four hundred dollars between parts and labor, but was well worth it. Clutching is a personal choice and I prefer it, but the semi-auto is easier for most people.

[bushrat]

Agree with much of the advice offered so far. The more hours you put on a Spyder, the easier/better your handling will become. Transitioning from two-wheels takes a bit of time; some make the switch easier than others. As a competent m/c operator in past, with experience, the Spyder course might be helpful, but not crucial. As for avoiding obstacles, they need to be small if you are going to try to pass over them safely; nothing more than about 10" long and 3" high max to be on the safe side. Anything bigger and you really need to go around. Also depends on how accurate your aim is so that you position the object just inside a front wheel and manage to miss it with the rear. Speed as well as judgment is a factor. As for choosing between a manual vs. semi-automatic, I came from a standard-shift sports car background where down-shifting was a delightful norm. Same for the two-wheelers I owned years ago. I opted to buy a 2017 F3L with SE6. I love it. Easy to operate. I constantly down-shift and engine brake without waiting for the Spyder to do it for me. Loads of fun. If I want to be lazy, the bike will do it; I can relax and coast to a stop. Semi-auto will likely be a positive when it comes time to re-sell. Much happiness to you; do go and test ride all the possible choices before you decide. You'll soon know which is best for you.

[Bob Denman]

Take the course: it's like getting a lot of road experience in one good shot!
Object avoidance is another issue...
It's completely dependent upon the circumstances.
The first thing I do, is slow down!
A quick scan of mirrors and lanes then tells me which side to take.
I normally try to put the object just to the inside edge of one front wheel...

...and pray like the dickens, that it doesn't catch the rear wheel!

[ARtraveler]

What others have posted already is usually what I say about your questions.

The manual transmission is usually about $1,500 less in cost. They are much harder to sell because most prefer the semi auto. I have had four semi and one manual. If I want to shift, I jump on my Vulcan cruiser.

The "avoidance" maneuver is a learned thing. I have about a 75% success rate. Low clearance is another issue.

[PrairieSpyder]

I can't add much to the other posts about your questions, so I'll just say

I hope you'll get one and let us know all about it.

[UtahPete]

Welcome to the Spyder Community!

Going to do my best to answer your questions.

1. Since you have ridden motorcycles before I assume you already have your M endorsement on your license. With that said, I would say that taking the spyder training class is not mandatory before owning a Spyder but I am sure most would agree it is a really good idea to do it if you can afford it and have the time to! Also, good call on going to the dealer to test ride before buying

2. Object avoidance on the road is something of a challenge because as you have pointed out the 3 wheel setup makes it impossible to split with the front two wheels without running it over with the back wheel. Mainly I just go over it if it is something minor. Other things like road kill (dead squirrel, animal, etc) I do my best to just avoid it all together if possible.

3. You are correct in saying that most prefer the semi-automatic. For many it just takes all the mechanics out of the ride such as having to operate a clutch, etc. There is a paddle shifter on the left handle bar that you just tap to upshift. You do not have to downshift as the computer will do that for you however you can still do it manually if you wish. Past that, as you said it just comes down to rider preference if you still want the full "motorcycle experience" with the manual.

I hope this helps you and I am sure others will chime in as well with their thoughts. Good Luck!

And, on smaller road debris, most of us after awhile learn to aim for having it pass just inside either front wheel. You didn't say what kind of Spyder you're looking at. I think the SE6 is preferred on touring bikes because it is so effortless and smooth. I believe that for someone looking to do more sporty style riding, the manual may be preferable.

[JayBros]

I can't add anything to the other responders comments; they've covered the waterfront very, very well. IMO, if you are looking at MYs 17 and 18, based on what I've seen posted on this site about the new BRP Connect system in MY2018 I would avoid it like the plague. Let BRP solve what appear to be common problems when a vehicle maker gets into high fangled dashboard junk before you dip a toe in that water.

[UtahPete]

You have a good grasp of the important things, I think. It's a pleasure responding to your well-articulated post. You will be a great asset to the Spyder community

[BajaRon]

First, let me say welcome to Spyderlovers. A great place to find the answers that you need.

I think the biggest hurdle for you will be the same one that I and many others coming off of 2 wheels have had. The Spyder is obviously different. But your 2 wheel trained brain will think it is a 2 wheeler. This can give you a very uneasy feeling at first. For me it was very serious. Just today I received a phone call from a long time Harley rider that expressed this exact experience to me. At the beginning he thought he'd made the worst decision of his life. Ditto for me. Hopefully, with the knowledge you get here this will not be as serious for you. But just remember. It is temporary if you experience it at all.

But once he settled down, realized that it might take a bit of time and effort for the Spyder to grow on him, things started to get better. Same exact experience I had. Now he loves his Spyder and so do I.

Men tend to be more stubborn to change their ways. Some give up too soon and miss out. But you have the advantage of knowing (somewhat) what to expect. For me there was no guaranteed light at the end of the tunnel.

The truth is. Many of the skills you honed for 2 wheels will do you well on the Spyder. But some will not. It's a matter of retraining your brain. Once you do that you can switch back and forth (I still have an M109R) without issue.

As for the transmission. Most prefer the auto. It just makes for a more relaxed ride, though you can still ride aggressively. I prefer the manual. But that's just me. Try them both before you buy.

As for road hazards. I must tell you early on I came around a blind mountain curve to find a large 4x4 in the road. I could not go wide as I could not see if there were any oncoming traffic. I was going too fast and the board was too close for slowing down to have any real effect. And I had virtually zero time to make up my mind. So, I went with the Railroad Track approach. I just went straight as I ran over the 4x4 while gritting my teeth and expecting the worst. But very little happened. There was a slight bump, no real feedback in the handle bars and I was on my way.

If I had been on 2 wheels I may have been able to avoid that obstacle. But if I had run into it on 2 wheels while leaned over in the turn I'd have been off in the weeds for sure! Since then my Spyder has impressed me when encountering sand, dirt, water, gravel, snow patches, etc. in curves. Handling all with not much more than a momentary twitch.

I think you're going to love the Spyder. Just relax and don't try to over think it. Ease into everything and in no time you'll be having a really great time.

[ned64]

Just a thought. If you can an have the time I would take the course. You would learn how to ride an you would get to feel the difference between the RT an the F3. A big plus is as I understand you get the waiver to take to the licensing department an get your 3 wheel endorsement. I took a 3wheel safety course some yrs back an got the waiver. Here in Washington state you can't ride a 3 wheeler on a 2 wheel motorcycle endorsement. You need a 3 wheel endorsement . I have 2 wheel motorcycle endorsement, 3 wheel trike endorsement, an car license.

[BoxyLady]

Thanks everyone for the welcome and the great information! Actually, we took off last night to test ride a white 2017 F3-T with the floorboard option and SE6. Some thoughts:

*The dealer has a huge lot that loops around the building. on one side there are 3 speed bumps. We practiced dodging around the bumps at low speed and looped around the building several times before hitting the street. I was quite surprised how quickly we got the initial (and I do stress "initial") hang of riding it. the most natural approach for us: when turning right, use the left leg to push our body weight toward the front right of the Spyder-opposite approach with left turns. I think some of our ATV riding in the past kicked it with some long lost muscle memory (!) as that's kind of the same sensation when making turns. We each test drove about 20 miles of city and back streets.

*we agree the training is worthwhile. Since it is two full days, I imagine there is a lot of beginner information for folks who have probably never been on two or three wheels, but if it's anything like the intensive Harley-Davidson training, they will show us how to handle emergency or unexpected situations and how to maneuver the Spyder to accommodate.

*when hurtling down the road, if feels like you are on a two wheel motorcycle. All the sensations are the same. only when turning do you know that something is definitely different.

*The SE6 trans is very convenient, I must say, although it's a VERY hard shifting transmission when you upshift in the higher rev band (anything above 4k). We are finding F3-T 2017 SM6's are almost impossible to find, but I think I have talked myself into the SE6 anyway. For this platform a manual might not be called for: no need for a friction zone that a manual clutch provides, since there's no need to work to keep the bike upright in low speed maneuvers like on a two wheeler. Another downside to the SE6 is that it does NOT perform throttle blips for rev-matching on downshifts. That was a little disheartening for us. If you are not in the correct rev zone chosen by the computer when downshifting, it won't allow you to make the shift. I don't like a computer having that much control over my open-air experience

*Plenty of grunt from the motor, even at 1k pounds. I will say the Rotax engine does not sing like a Ducati or Harley-Davidson does....it's just, well, an engine sound. Wish the motor had a more unique, pleasing sound signature.

*I am a red person, but I was really surprised how fantastic it looks in white, in person. The body colored side bags really integrate into the body shape, creating a really nice looking machine.

*We agree with what others have said regarding the 2018 dashboard. We don't talk on the phone or listen to music when we are on two wheels and certainly won't do it on three, so a lot of the whiz-bang of that new dash and it's "infotainment" aspects would be lost on us anyway, and it seems they have some real growing pains. Plus, we can get a $3,000 rebate on a 2017 minus whatever we can get from a lower dealer selling price.

I was very happy with the Spyder, and I think it provides exactly what I am looking for to get me back out on the road. A couple of barriers remain for us:

-on the next test ride, we are going to ride it to our house and figure out how we are going to get it into our garages. We do have two and one is pretty large, but we also have two cars(thank goodness they are both small Minis, and my husband has two motorcycles).

-We currently have a 6' x 12' Pace American enclosed trailer that was perfect for transporting two bikes for the past 8 or 9 years. Well, I don't have to tell anyone here, THAT's not going to work any longer. From what I have seen we are going to need a 16' trailer in order to get a motorcycle and the Spyder inside, so that's another expense we have to include. He trailers much more than I would need to(he makes two trips down to the Dragon each year for instance), so we could likely put off that expense for awhile....high quality enclosed trailers are really expensive.....

-trying to find a red 2017 F3-T might be tough, but assuming we decide to move forward, we will cast a wide net geography-wise to try and find one. That deep red, almost crimson color is just too irresistible for me.

I welcome any comments folks might have on our initial impressions, and I will post how we progress, and I'm sure we will have more questions, if you don't mind......

thanks again everyone!

Carolyn

[al0vely]

Check out the inventory at iMotorsports. According to their website they have all colors you have mentioned plus some - and they deliver to your door.

Good luck in finding your Spyder.

[BoxyLady]

Check out the inventory at iMotorsports. According to their website they have all colors you have mentioned plus some - and they deliver to your door.

Good luck in finding your Spyder.

thanks for that tip! I checked them out and they have great reviews. I kind of wondered when their site stated they deliver the bike anywhere in the lower 48 for free, plus freight and set up are included?! The fact they are out of Chicago means that we could actually go there to check out the bike. And you are correct, they do indeed have the exact bike we would be looking for. I called 8 dealers in our region and no red anywhere....

thanks again!

Carolyn

[Bob Denman]

Isn't shopping FUN??

[crazycanuck]

Isn't shopping FUN??

depends on if the boss at home is on board or not

[pegasus1300]

You asked about blipping the throttle on an Se. Just hold the throttle steady and you will get a better shift experience. I shifted motorcycles for 50+ years so this was a little bit of an unlearning experience for me.I love the clutchless shift and find it can be just as sporty as a manual.

[UtahPete]

You asked about blipping the throttle on an Se. Just hold the throttle steady and you will get a better shift experience. I shifted motorcycles for 50+ years so this was a little bit of an unlearning experience for me.I love the clutchless shift and find it can be just as sporty as a manual.

This thing shifts very smoothly under full power. Acceleration is phenomenal.

[trobbins27]

*Plenty of grunt from the motor, even at 1k pounds. I will say the Rotax engine does not sing like a Ducati or Harley-Davidson does....it's just, well, an engine sound. Wish the motor had a more unique, pleasing sound signature.

Carolyn

There are several aftermarket muffler/straight pipe (cat delete) options out there to remedy that Happy hunting!

[ARtraveler]

Thanks everyone for the welcome and the great information! Actually, we took off last night to test ride a white 2017 F3-T with the floorboard option and SE6. Some thoughts:

*The dealer has a huge lot that loops around the building. on one side there are 3 speed bumps. We practiced dodging around the bumps at low speed and looped around the building several times before hitting the street. I was quite surprised how quickly we got the initial (and I do stress "initial") hang of riding it. the most natural approach for us: when turning right, use the left leg to push our body weight toward the front right of the Spyder-opposite approach with left turns. I think some of our ATV riding in the past kicked it with some long lost muscle memory (!) as that's kind of the same sensation when making turns. We each test drove about 20 miles of city and back streets.

*we agree the training is worthwhile. Since it is two full days, I imagine there is a lot of beginner information for folks who have probably never been on two or three wheels, but if it's anything like the intensive Harley-Davidson training, they will show us how to handle emergency or unexpected situations and how to maneuver the Spyder to accommodate.

*when hurtling down the road, if feels like you are on a two wheel motorcycle. All the sensations are the same. only when turning do you know that something is definitely different.

*The SE6 trans is very convenient, I must say, although it's a VERY hard shifting transmission when you upshift in the higher rev band (anything above 4k). We are finding F3-T 2017 SM6's are almost impossible to find, but I think I have talked myself into the SE6 anyway. For this platform a manual might not be called for: no need for a friction zone that a manual clutch provides, since there's no need to work to keep the bike upright in low speed maneuvers like on a two wheeler. Another downside to the SE6 is that it does NOT perform throttle blips for rev-matching on downshifts. That was a little disheartening for us. If you are not in the correct rev zone chosen by the computer when downshifting, it won't allow you to make the shift. I don't like a computer having that much control over my open-air experience



*Plenty of grunt from the motor, even at 1k pounds. I will say the Rotax engine does not sing like a Ducati or Harley-Davidson does....it's just, well, an engine sound. Wish the motor had a more unique, pleasing sound signature.

*I am a red person, but I was really surprised how fantastic it looks in white, in person. The body colored side bags really integrate into the body shape, creating a really nice looking machine.

*We agree with what others have said regarding the 2018 dashboard. We don't talk on the phone or listen to music when we are on two wheels and certainly won't do it on three, so a lot of the whiz-bang of that new dash and it's "infotainment" aspects would be lost on us anyway, and it seems they have some real growing pains. Plus, we can get a $3,000 rebate on a 2017 minus whatever we can get from a lower dealer selling price.

I was very happy with the Spyder, and I think it provides exactly what I am looking for to get me back out on the road. A couple of barriers remain for us:

-on the next test ride, we are going to ride it to our house and figure out how we are going to get it into our garages. We do have two and one is pretty large, but we also have two cars(thank goodness they are both small Minis, and my husband has two motorcycles).

-We currently have a 6' x 12' Pace American enclosed trailer that was perfect for transporting two bikes for the past 8 or 9 years. Well, I don't have to tell anyone here, THAT's not going to work any longer. From what I have seen we are going to need a 16' trailer in order to get a motorcycle and the Spyder inside, so that's another expense we have to include. He trailers much more than I would need to(he makes two trips down to the Dragon each year for instance), so we could likely put off that expense for awhile....high quality enclosed trailers are really expensive.....

-trying to find a red 2017 F3-T might be tough, but assuming we decide to move forward, we will cast a wide net geography-wise to try and find one. That deep red, almost crimson color is just too irresistible for me.

I welcome any comments folks might have on our initial impressions, and I will post how we progress, and I'm sure we will have more questions, if you don't mind......

thanks again everyone!

Carolyn

RE: Throttle blips/shifting the SE. Not sure if I read right. When shifting up with the SE no throttle blips are necessary. Just leave the throttle where it is and the will do it. Downshifting is automatic also. No blipping required. If you want to shift down at a higher range, just manually hit the "-" on the shifter. Most SE shifts are seamless without throttle blips.

[bushrat]

Re OP comment that: "Another downside to the SE6 is that it does NOT perform throttle blips for rev-matching on downshifts. That was a little disheartening for us. If you are not in the correct rev zone chosen by the computer when downshifting, it won't allow you to make the shift. I don't like a computer having that much control over my open-air experience."

My response: That has never been my experience on my 2017 F3L. My sweet spot for up-shifting smoothly and seamlessly is around 3500-4000 rpm. I can do at higher revs if I really need to make a quick get-away; at lower revs, it isn't as smooth.

More to your point: I have never had any issues when downshifting/engine braking. I typically do this well before the computer wants to. I control the shift pattern and have never been refused or denied by the computer, and I have 'pushed' the engine to 'up' the rev count pretty dramatically while doing so. I find myself agreeing with sentiments expressed above by pegasus1300, UtahPete and akspyderman: the Se6 is smooth and you're in control whenever you want to be, unless and until you get Nanny upset. And then, she's just trying to save you from harm. I'm sure you will find that you can downshift the 1330 F3T to your heart's content.

Welcome and safe, happy ryding.

[Bob Denman]

Since it's "throttle by wire": throttle-blips are unnecessary...
The computer does all of that for you now!

[grieppc]

I thought dealers were having trouble selling a manual ..... why? do you enjoy shifting? The wife says it's a no brainer.