New Bluetooth 5 Helmet Communication products

[Bruiser37]

Current motorcycle helmet communication products with bluetooth version 4.x and lower with all their inherent built in quirky bugs, limitations, complicated set up and operation will soon become obsolete and not compatible with new powerful feature rich bluetooth 5.x motorcycle helmet mesh networking communication products.

I suggest riders consider remaining with current CB and bluetooth helmet devices until new bluetooth 5.x helmet communication products & technology become available. It’s the new standard and worth waiting for. Never look backwards.

[ThreeWheels]

Do you know if it's backwards compatible ??
Specifically, if I replace my headsets, will I need to replace the BRP bluetooth dongle on the Spyder ?

[finless]

It is of course backwards compatible. You just will not get the new features of 5.x

Bob

[Motorcycledave]

In talking to Paul, Rick and Alissa at SENA they will work just fine.. no need to freak out.
check out the video clips I post on SENA Alissa tells all.
Dave

Current motorcycle helmet communication products with bluetooth version 4.x and lower with all their inherent built in quirky bugs, limitations, complicated set up and operation will soon become obsolete and not compatible with new powerful feature rich bluetooth 5.x motorcycle helmet mesh networking communication products.

I suggest riders consider remaining with current CB and bluetooth helmet devices until new bluetooth 5.x helmet communication products & technology become available. It’s the new standard and worth waiting for. Never look backwards.

[Bruiser37]

It is of course backwards compatible. You just will not get the new features of 5.x

Bob

Be careful on what you say. Bluetooth 5.x will NOT compatible with ANY current BT 4.x device or lower . Sena 30K is bluetooth 4.x In mesh-networking mode only with other Sena 30K's. Absolutely not compatible with any new 5.x device. Sena 30K has included a SECONDDARY 4.x bluetooth com mode to be compatible with older 10S & 20s & other brand helmet systems. 30K mesh-networking & BT com modes are two separate modes and cannot be used together at same time. Sena and Cardo have not announced any plans for BT 5.x for these very reasons. If you must communicate with older BT helmet devices with same old restrictions without 30K mesh-networking go for it. Same restrictions apply to latest Cardo PackTalk. Like AM CB there are plenty helmet BT systems out there so you don't have to worry for a while. Me, I'm sticking with old until the powerful new 5.x devices become standard in another year. Cannot look back.

Sena Technologies answer:

"Agent#12, Apr 27, 4:44 PM PDT:Hello,

Thanks for contacting Sena Technical Support and I apologize for the delayed response due to a high volume of emails.
The Sena 30K's bluetooth version is fixed and cannot be updated with the new version 5.0.
I apologize but it doesn't meet your expectation.
thank you for your interest in our product and have a wonderful day!

Best Regards,
Jake
Sena Technologies"

"Agent#4, Apr 24, 1:12 PM PDT:Hello,
For now we don't have any further updates for the higher versions of Bluetooth as well as the 30K.
For now 30K will still be a Bluetooth Version 4.1 but we thank you for your bright idea!
Please submit your great ideas here as feature requests, so our engineers can look into this more in depth:"

[oldguyinTX]

It has been my experience with Sena that their "engineers" don't really look into anything that a customer complains about. I spent a month going back and forth with agent(s) # whatever trying to get an issue resolved to no avail. I finally gave up.

[L_r_g]

Be careful on what you say. Bluetooth 5.x will NOT compatible with ANY current BT 4.x device or lower . Sena 30K is bluetooth 4.x In mesh-networking mode only with other Sena 30K's. Absolutely not compatible with any new 5.x device. Sena 30K has included a SECONDDARY 4.x bluetooth com mode to be compatible with older 10S & 20s & other brand helmet systems. 30K mesh-networking & BT com modes are two separate modes and cannot be used together at same time. Sena and Cardo have not announced any plans for BT 5.x for these very reasons. If you must communicate with older BT helmet devices with same old restrictions without 30K mesh-networking go for it. Same restrictions apply to latest Cardo PackTalk. Like AM CB there are plenty helmet BT systems out there so you don't have to worry for a while. Me, I'm sticking with old until the powerful new 5.x devices become standard in another year. Cannot look back.

Sena Technologies answer:

"Agent#12, Apr 27, 4:44 PM PDT:Hello,

Thanks for contacting Sena Technical Support and I apologize for the delayed response due to a high volume of emails.
The Sena 30K's bluetooth version is fixed and cannot be updated with the new version 5.0.
I apologize but it doesn't meet your expectation.
thank you for your interest in our product and have a wonderful day!

Best Regards,
Jake
Sena Technologies"

"Agent#4, Apr 24, 1:12 PM PDT:Hello,
For now we don't have any further updates for the higher versions of Bluetooth as well as the 30K.
For now 30K will still be a Bluetooth Version 4.1 but we thank you for your bright idea!
Please submit your great ideas here as feature requests, so our engineers can look into this more in depth:"

I agree that we should always be careful with what we say. However I disagree with your assertion that "Bluetooth 5.x will NOT compatible with ANY current BT 4.x device or lower ." That is 100% false. Part of the Bluetooth 5 spec is that it's backwards compatible with v4.0 and up. Feel free to check it out in the Bluetooth 5 Core Spec published by the Bluetooth SIG, it's a thrilling 2800 page read.

You didn't include your original message to Sena, but from the context of their replies it seems you asked if the 30K would be upgraded or upgradeable to v5, which or course it isn't. A functional Bluetooth device has many components, but some of the major ones are the hardware, including radios, firmware, and software/application. The specs require certain capabilities of the hardware, so it's not just a software update to go to a higher version. Thus, the 30K can't be updated.

Also, no saying that Sena or any other motorcycle comm manufacturer does it, but device makers may also at times do a custom implementation that's not fully compliant with the spec. This is usually seen in situations where a device is only compatible with other devices by that manufacturer. This happened very commonly when the 802.11n Wi-Fi spec was being finalized and wasn't yet ratified. Manufacturers were selling access points and network interfaces claiming to be 802.11n but the final, ratified version varied from what they did, so once official 802.11n became widespread, those early devices didn't always play nice and caused problems.

I'm excited for Bluetooth 5.0 comms, hope we see some soon!

[Flamewinger]

I can't wait till these BT headsets work like a CB in that when we want to talk to the other riders we can hit a button and talk, but when we want to sing along with our favorite song or complain about something happening at work (talking to yourself) the rest of the group won't have to hear.

[spydernatic]

It has been my experience with Sena that their "engineers" don't really look into anything that a customer complains about. I spent a month going back and forth with agent(s) # whatever trying to get an issue resolved to no avail. I finally gave up.

For interest sake what kind of problems were you having that did not get resolved I am also having problems with Sena and would like to know if we have similar problems

[Bruiser37]

I agree that we should always be careful with what we say. However I disagree with your assertion that "Bluetooth 5.x will NOT compatible with ANY current BT 4.x device or lower ." That is 100% false. Part of the Bluetooth 5 spec is that it's backwards compatible with v4.0 and up. Feel free to check it out in the Bluetooth 5 Core Spec published by the Bluetooth SIG, it's a thrilling 2800 page read.

You didn't include your original message to Sena, but from the context of their replies it seems you asked if the 30K would be upgraded or upgradeable to v5, which or course it isn't. A functional Bluetooth device has many components, but some of the major ones are the hardware, including radios, firmware, and software/application. The specs require certain capabilities of the hardware, so it's not just a software update to go to a higher version. Thus, the 30K can't be updated.

Also, no saying that Sena or any other motorcycle comm manufacturer does it, but device makers may also at times do a custom implementation that's not fully compliant with the spec. This is usually seen in situations where a device is only compatible with other devices by that manufacturer. This happened very commonly when the 802.11n Wi-Fi spec was being finalized and wasn't yet ratified. Manufacturers were selling access points and network interfaces claiming to be 802.11n but the final, ratified version varied from what they did, so once official 802.11n became widespread, those early devices didn't always play nice and caused problems.

I'm excited for Bluetooth 5.0 comms, hope we see some soon!

First, by time I discovered typo that should have been “MANY”. I decided to leave it as is. Bluetooth is open source software subject to hardware designers, engineers and their end use product marketing. Bluetooth 5.x is a completely new build engineered to take advantage of todays modern powerful processors, hardware and end user friendly product interface, things that are difficult and not practical to deal within current BT 4.x and lower B T version devises.


Of course BT 5.x without a doubt could be made backward compatible to older version BT hardware. Just back out software features to match old built in hardware limitations and there are plenty. What’s to gain?... an old BT hardware version. BTW didn't take anything out of context of Sena agent replies, these are actual quotes only email protocol was removed to conserve forum space.


I stand by my opinion, wait and see what market comes up with in new powerful hardware, stable, reliable and user friendly BT products 2018 and beyond. it’s worth waiting for. I started this research to see where motorcycle helmet communication was going. So far only answer from two major suppliers of moto comm can only say wait and see. In mean time continue using the old stuff that’s out there and still working if you desire. Have a good day.

[vtown biker]

That's what she said.

First, by time I discovered typo that should have been “MANY”. I decided to leave it as is. Bluetooth is open source software subject to hardware designers, engineers and their end use product marketing. Bluetooth 5.x is a completely new build engineered to take advantage of todays modern powerful processors, hardware and end user friendly product interface, things that are difficult and not practical to deal within current BT 4.x and lower B T version devises.


Of course BT 5.x without a doubt could be made backward compatible to older version BT hardware. Just back out software features to match old built in hardware limitations and there are plenty. What’s to gain?... an old BT hardware version. BTW didn't take anything out of context of Sena agent replies, these are actual quotes only email protocol was removed to conserve forum space.


I stand by my opinion, wait and see what market comes up with in new powerful hardware, stable, reliable and user friendly BT products 2018 and beyond. it’s worth waiting for. I started this research to see where motorcycle helmet communication was going. So far only answer from two major suppliers of moto comm can only say wait and see. In mean time continue using the old stuff that’s out there and still working if you desire. Have a good day.

[finless]

Why would they make it not at least downward compatible at least for basic comm's? The Spec supports it!
Because they would shut out ALL the people that don't have it and make you incompatible with a huge base of users.
When BT helmets first started coming out, many manufacturers in implemented a "modded" spec making their protocol incompatible with any other manufacturers. How did that work out? Not well...


I stand by my comment that Sena's new 5.x headset will be downward compatible with previous 4.x units for features the 4.x units have for basic comm's.

Bet?

Bob

[bhern]

For interest sake what kind of problems were you having that did not get resolved I am also having problems with Sena and would like to know if we have similar problems

I've got one -- just discovered this weekend, so I can't complain about responsiveness yet, but based on Googling it and seeing that it appears to be a known issue with no resolution, I'm not optimistic.

I'll start a different thread just in case others have experienced it.

[Bruiser37]

Do you know if it's backwards compatible ??
Specifically, if I replace my headsets, will I need to replace the BRP bluetooth dongle on the Spyder ?

As far as I know Sena 30k is only backwards compatible to their 20s. Replace your BRP BT dongle?? 99.99% chance it is not compatible. Sena products like Cardo are proprietary bluetooth profiles and not compatible with each other... you pays your money and takes your chances. Very strong advertisements advise if new original package is opened you can't return for refund. Buyer beware.

[stevencovert]

The wife and I have the Bilt helmets with the cheap Sena's built in. We *can* talk to each other OR listen to music on the phone, if you are good at holding the button for a certain time. Not convenient for a new rider.

I finally figured out that the Sena 20s (and/or EVO) have this automatic multitasking. From what I read, I can listen to the phone (music and GPS), start talking and it will automatically dial down the music and we can talk. With "Hey Sena.." voice command we can use the phone (or a lot of things). It works with an app on the iPhone which is really nice. I still haven't found a good Sena Youtube video that goes over this well (multitasking and how it works).

Except for the $450 price tag for a dual set...


Steve

[finless]

As far as I know Sena 30k is only backwards compatible to their 20s. Replace your BRP BT dongle?? 99.99% chance it is not compatible. Sena products like Cardo are proprietary bluetooth profiles and not compatible with each other... you pays your money and takes your chances. Very strong advertisements advise if new original package is opened you can't return for refund. Buyer beware.

Not sure where you are getting your information. Sena's since like the 5 is not a proprietary protocol for devices like phones, GPS, etc etc.
The BRP dongle will work as it is a standard BT device to just about any headset brand that is BT spec. Saying it won't work is like saying the 30K won't support paring to a phone or a GPS.

Bob

[jcthorne]

As far as I know Sena 30k is only backwards compatible to their 20s. Replace your BRP BT dongle?? 99.99% chance it is not compatible. Sena products like Cardo are proprietary bluetooth profiles and not compatible with each other... you pays your money and takes your chances. Very strong advertisements advise if new original package is opened you can't return for refund. Buyer beware.

I know first hand this is NOT true. We have a rider in our group that has a new 30K. Most of us have 20S and 20EVO and a couple with 10 series. They all work together in group mode. They negotiate the lowest common feature set. Mesh does not work as there is only 1 30K in the group. Advanced noise cancellation and multitasking work when 20 and 30 series units are in the group. Add a 10 series and those functions drop out but the group mode between them does work as well as the 10 series units every did.

You also said the mesh mode and BT cannot be used at the same time. This is also not true. The 30K can indeed work in a mesh group and use BT comms with a phone for music at the same time.